Cosmology?

[Tiffany]

I'm very interested in some dialogues I've read on here pertaining to Mormon cosmology and whether or not anyone could tell me solidly what the general lds belief is of creation. Do they believe in alien s and that god is on another planet that he used to be a person like us before becoming a god.. And if it isn't insulting or irritating as neither is my intention could someone relate to me whether or not or how rather I guess I mean do they feel in regards to the ancient alien theories. Thanks I appreciate it, if in fact anyone does actually answer.  

[Kevin Christensen]

Try this:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=997

And this:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=995

And this:

http://www.sciencemeetsreligion.org/lds/lds-science-quotes.php

And these:

http://www.dhbailey.com/papers/

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited July 18, 2016 by Kevin Christensen
Added link to Bailey's papers

[Tiffany]

Thank you Kevin for the links. It's a lot to get through but very interesting. I was hoping for a more simplistic answer but I'm greatful for the links as there is a lot more bread crumbs to follow now. 

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Tiffany said:

I'm very interested in some dialogues I've read on here pertaining to Mormon cosmology and whether or not anyone could tell me solidly what [3]the general lds belief is of creation. [1]Do they believe in alien s and that god is on another planet that he used to be a person like us before becoming a god.. And if it isn't insulting or irritating as neither is my intention could someone relate to me whether or not or how rather I guess I mean do they feel in regards to the [2] ancient alien theories. Thanks I appreciate it, if in fact anyone does actually answer.  

Basis beliefs are in this manual:

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng

First couple of chapters and last several (they are very short) will somewhat provide the framework needed for a simple answer.  Those chapters are what most LDS believe of the basics about God and his relationship to Man.

When you get into how this all plays out, you get into a wide range of beliefs.  

[1]. We believe God created in the same way he created earth (and there is wide variation on how this was done) many other worlds and will create others, many of which are meant as homes for his children.  Most probably see this as identical to humans, others may see a fundamental likeness but perhaps quite a bit of variation as well.  As far as other nonhuman aliens or nonearthlike creatures, there is no revelation so people can hold whatever beliefs they want.  I know many who believe there are other sentient lifeforms on par with mankind's potential and others who don't, but believe variation in less intelligent lifeforms, and others who see life as consistent with earth.

Not sure what you mean by God on a planet.  Perhaps it is best to say we do associate a planet home as his prime residence or seat of authority, though some see this as figurative, probably more as literal and most are happy to wait for the details and only care that he is here with us in some fashion.  As to what God did in his youth, there is much in our teachings to suggest he lived a life like Christ, less to suggest he lived a life like us but possible.  We may also be totally confused about the meaning of what little that has been revealed.

[2]. There are varied beliefs among LDS, but most I suspect see it as unlikely.  Some few have suggested there was more direct interaction with God through his messengers with great scientific knowledge shared that was lost, etc. paralleling some of the AA theories.  My personal belief is there is little on the ground or in our texts evidence for this, though I wouldn't be surprised if advances came due to seeking out God for help in making life better.  The Book of Mormon has an example of a man being taught by God to build a ship, though it is likely he had some core skills to help with the basics.  The usual AA theories I have come across seem way too much speculation in comparison to evidence, so am not impressed.  God's purposes, imo, for mankind are better served with little or no interaction with other planets at this time.

3.  Creation beliefs are a mixed bag.  The manual covers the basics.  Joseph Smith taught an old earth, but some may not be aware of that or they interpret it to mean a variety of ideas besides the most common scientific version.  Many LDS see God being the mover behind what science is seeing including evolution, though how he did it is of course unknown.  Some LDS are young earth and read creation from the Bible in a very literal way.

This Encyclopedia of Mormonism may be something useful for you if you are looking for brief answers to your questions on various topics:

http://eom.byu.edu/

[Tiffany]

Thank for your input, I will look at first provided link but having no success opening the last one, my phone is probably functioning poorly. A lot of this is opening memories of my missionaries as a child who told me god probably had parents who had parents and so on when I had asked them if god had parents. A lot of wonder in this. AA is kinda funky sometimes with their stories but when I apply theory's of god scientifically creating the earth and man as opposed to  more religious mainstream magical type explanations then I find it even more griping. Perhaps my faith is not so strong now that I need logic to have faith but nonetheless the logic is bringing me back to my original faith, if that makes sense.

[Bobbieaware]

16 hours ago, Tiffany said:

If I'm very interested in some dialogues I've read on here pertaining to Mormon cosmology and whether or not anyone could tell me solidly what the general lds belief is of creation. Do they believe in alien s and that god is on another planet that he used to be a person like us before becoming a god.. And if it isn't insulting or irritating as neither is my intention could someone relate to me whether or not or how rather I guess I mean do they feel in regards to the ancient alien theories. Thanks I appreciate it, if in fact anyone does actually answer.

The God Jesus Christ was born, lived to adulthood, died and was raised from the dead in material form on this planet. If there is intelligent life elsewhere in our seemingly endless universe, do you think it would be incorrect for such extra-terrestrials to think of Jesus Christ as a alien life-form? If not, why not? After all, Jesus Christ was truly born as a material being on a real material planet that occupies real space within the material universe. In my opinion, the only way Jesus Christ could not understandably -- and quite reasonably -- be thought of by extra-terrestrials as a space alien is if our earth is the only one of the trillions of other planets that will ever be populated by intelligent beings. And if this is the only planet that ever has and ever will be inhabited by intelligent, divinely-created life-forms, one is caused to wonder why God ever bothered to create such a vast material universe in the first place when only one tiny planet in all of infinitude will ever have a more meaningful reason for existing other than just merely existing.

But if God ever does create another planet like this earth, and causes that planet to be inhabited by human-like beings created in his image, and if these beings will go through mortal experiences similar to our own, one can just imagine the guffaws, rolling eyes and total incredulity when the prophets of that world teach the people God was once a helpless human baby who was born on an obscure planet on the outer rim of a spiral galaxy once known as the Milky Way. In other words, the only way Jesus Christ and the rest of the human family could not be reasonably thought of as being space aliens is if we're the only intelligent beings who ever have or ever will be created in our unimaginably gigantic material universe. Excuse me if I think such a possibility is very unlikely. If God, in his infinite wisdom and foreknowledge, thought it was a good idea to create human beings on this world, why think it strange that he would do the same on another world?

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

 23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

 24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Edited July 19, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Tiffany]

Bobbyaware....Wow, 🌌what an incredible thought and way of looking at it. This is exactly how I feel and I was excited wondering if LDS members thought the same. 

[Bobbieaware]

18 minutes ago, Tiffany said:

Bobbyaware....Wow, 🌌what an incredible thought and way of looking at it. This is exactly how I feel and I was excited wondering if LDS members thought the same. 

Thank you, Tiffany. 

If Jesus Christ is God and has lived -- and will yet live again (according to prophecy) --  on this material world, we Latter-day Saints do not think it at all strange, nor unreasonable, to believe God the Father himself also lives on a glorified celestial world somewhere else in our universe. What's so hard to believe about this concept? If this world will one day be transformed by the eternal power of God into a new heavenly earth, where the glorious resurrected Christ will feel perfectly comfortable and at home, why is it so difficult to believe God the Father could also feel perfectly at home on another transformed and glorified world that's somewhere else in the same universe? Christ removes all doubt as to whether or not it's right or possible for God to live on a planet. 

All the best...

Edited July 18, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Tiffany]

Wow! Bobbiaware, I just want to say thank you, I really appreciate the clarity so much I can't articulate it. I've been feeling pulled to the church more and more lately but felt that my beliefs about this would conflict with LDS teachings and too ebaressed to approach any missionaries I see around town. Its been somewhat confusing finding solid concise answers online that i can actually understand with little time to search. Knowing this now feels very kismet as though God really has been leading me back to the LDS church that I barely remember from being a child. Again thank you very much!

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Tiffany said:

Wow! Bobbiaware, I just want to say thank you, I really appreciate the clarity so much I can't articulate it. I've been feeling pulled to the church more and more lately but felt that my beliefs about this would conflict with LDS teachings and too ebaressed to approach any missionaries I see around town. Its been somewhat confusing finding solid concise answers online that i can actually understand with little time to search. Knowing this now feels very kismet as though God really has been leading me back to the LDS church that I barely remember from being a child. Again thank you very much!

Happy I can be of help. If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to ask me. Even if we have to find a way to communicate off of this sight, I will supply you with similarly clear answers on many other LDS doctrinal subjects. Take care...

[Tiffany]

Thank you very much I appreciate that. Could I take you up on that now and just ask about the trinity and the church's belief on god the holy ghost and Jesus being one or are they all separate? They are separate right? Is there any understanding of who the holy ghost is or was? And would Jesus be the saviour of the other beings on other planets or would they have another savior? Hope that's not too much. The trinity confused me as a child. 

[Calm]

We have what you could call the Social Trinity.  Three separate people in a community.  Just like you see in bishoprics or the First Presidency.  Just like we talk about Peter, James and John.  We like the number three in our faith. We do not use the term "being" to describe the Godhead as to traditional Christians,

We know the Holy Ghose is part of the Godhead, what his role is but little else.  There is a huge amount of speculation on who he is or even if he is a he (some speculate it is Heavenly Mother, but leaders have come out pretty strongly it is a man).  Some people think it is an office that has been filled by multiple people.  Some people think it is Joseph Smith.  

I think we need to wait for more revelation on that.

Jesus as saviour for this world only...some leaders have said this, others have stated that since his Atonement is infinite, it covers every planet every where and every when in the universe.  Some would say that God was a saviour to for his world where he was mortal, so Jesus can't be saviour for every world.  Some solve that by saying that was in a different universe, but in all the universe that the Father created, the Son is the only Saviour.

I tend to lean towards a different saviour for every world myself, but open to other positions.

[Bobbieaware]

3 hours ago, Tiffany said:

Thank you very much I appreciate that. Could I take you up on that now and just ask about the trinity and the church's belief on god the holy ghost and Jesus being one or are they all separate? They are separate right? Is there any understanding of who the holy ghost is or was? And would Jesus be the saviour of the other beings on other planets or would they have another savior? Hope that's not too much. The trinity confused me as a child. 

Among the usual explanations that the three members of the Godhead are separate personages who have one purpose, there are other more profound reasons why the Book of Mormon declares the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to be one God. I won't go into all of these deeper explanations now, but for your sake I will focus on one.

One of the reasons why the Book of Mormon teaches us that the three separate personages (free agents) of the Godhead are one God is because no one member of the Godhead can function in his assigned divine role unless he is working in concert with the other members of the Godhead. In other words, God the Father cannot function in his role as God the Father on his own. Unless the Father works in complete, interdependent concert with the atoning God the Son, and with the testifying and sanctifying God the Holy Spirit, he would be powerless and totally unable to save and sanctify anyone. God the Father needs to work in a perfectly united fashion with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit or, quite literally, he (the Father) would cease to be God.

Similarly, unless God the atoning Son is interdependently interconnected with God the presiding creator, and with God the sanctifying Holy Spirit, he would be unable to save anyone and would cease to be God. So God the Father cannot function as a Father, the Son cannot function as a Son, and the Holy Ghost would be powerless to function as a Holy Spirit unless each of the members of the Godhead remain in a perpetual state of interconnectedness with the others.

Another way of explaining this profundity is that in order for God to possess the power and wherewithal to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man he must have the power to preside and create, the power atone and redeem, and the power to testify and sanctify; but unless the three members of the Godhead remain bound to each other in mutual interdependence there is no God. God is not a Father functioning on his own, a Son functioning on his own, or a Godlike unembodied Holy Spirit functioning on his own. Unless God functions as an interconnected and interdependent presidency of three united intelligences, functioning as one corporate body, each with his own unique and indispensable role to play, there is no God. Just as exalted men cannot reign as Gods in heaven unless they are sealed to and work in full harmony with a Goddess to whom they are eternally sealed, the three Gods of the Godhead would have no power to do anything of eternal value if left to attempt to carry out their unique assignments on their own.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Tiffany]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

We have what you could call the Social Trinity.  Three separate people in a community.  Just like you see in bishoprics or the First Presidency.  Just like we talk about Peter, James and John.  We like the number three in our faith. We do not use the term "being" to describe the Godhead as to traditional Christians,

We know the Holy Ghose is part of the Godhead, what his role is but little else.  There is a huge amount of speculation on who he is or even if he is a he (some speculate it is Heavenly Mother, but leaders have come out pretty strongly it is a man).  Some people think it is an office that has been filled by multiple people.  Some people think it is Joseph Smith.  

I think we need to wait for more revelation on that.

Jesus as saviour for this world only...some leaders have said this, others have stated that since his Atonement is infinite, it covers every planet every where and every when in the universe.  Some would say that God was a saviour to for his world where he was mortal, so Jesus can't be saviour for every world.  Some solve that by saying that was in a different universe, but in all the universe that the Father created, the Son is the only Saviour.

I tend to lean towards a different saviour for every world myself, but open to other positions.

That's really interesting, thank you. A lot of different ways to look at it which makes me feel more comfortable, instead of solidly deciding one stance or the other the church is still studying to reach a conclusion. I think that's very smart and resppbsable. A holy mother , that just sounds very soothing, however once I was huryvad a child and prayed to the holy ghost for comfort and immediately felt complete soothing comfort and the presence felt masculine although that could have been planted in my mind as I always was told he was a he. incredibly satisfying topic. Thanks for your input.  

 

[Tiffany]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

Among the usual explanations that the three members of the Godhead are separate personages who have one purpose, there are other more profound reasons why the Book of Mormon declares the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to be one God. I won't go into all of these deeper explanations now, but for your sake I will focus on one.

One of the reasons why the Book of Mormon teaches us that the three separate personages (free agents) of the Godhead are one God is because no one member of the Godhead can function in his assigned divine role unless he is working in concert with the other members of the Godhead. In other words, God the Father cannot function in his role as God the Father on his own. Unless the Father works in complete, interdependent concert with the atoning God the Son, and with the testifying and sanctifying God the Holy Spirit, he would be powerless and totally unable to save and sanctify anyone. God the Father needs to work in a perfectly united fashion with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit or, quite literally, he (the Father) would cease to be God.

Similarly, unless God the atoning Son is interdependently interconnected with God the presiding creator, and with God the sanctifying Holy Spirit, he would be unable to save anyone and would cease to be God. So God the Father cannot function as a Father, the Son cannot function as a Son, and the Holy Ghost would be powerless to function as a Holy Spirit unless each of the members of the Godhead remain in a perpetual state of interconnectedness with the others.

Another way of explaining this profundity is that in order for God to possess the power and wherewithal to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man he must have the power to preside and create, the power atone and redeem, and the power to testify and sanctify; but unless the three members of the Godhead remain bound to each other in mutual interdependence there is no God. God is not a Father functioning on his own, a Son functioning on his own, or a Godlike unembodied Holy Spirit functioning on his own. Unless God functions as an interconnected and interdependent presidency of three united intelligences, functioning as one corporate body, each with his own unique and indispensable role to play, there is no God. Just as exalted men cannot reign as Gods in heaven unless they are sealed to and work in full harmony with a Goddess to whom they are eternally sealed, the three Gods of the Godhead would have no power to do anything of eternal value if left to attempt to carry out their unique assignments on their own.

So, they are three separate bodies or entities but carry the same title as god because they each perform integral parts that each alone could not? I feel it used to be explained to me that they were considered to be in the same body or were quite literally the same person which has always confused me. If I'm understanding you right, then that makes total sense that they are not the same bodies but are carrying the same title? 

[Bobbieaware]

7 hours ago, Tiffany said:

So, they are three separate bodies or entities but carry the same title as god because they each perform integral parts that each alone could not? I feel it used to be explained to me that they were considered to be in the same body or were quite literally the same person which has always confused me. If I'm understanding you right, then that makes total sense that they are not the same bodies but are carrying the same title? 

It's strange but it seems there are very few non-LDS Christians who actually understand the official/historical Catholic and Protestant doctrine of the Trinity. A great many uninformed Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity is that there is only ONE person in the Godhead but that that one person manifests himself in three different ways and three different roles. But according to those whe really understand the Catholic/Protestant concept of the Trinity, a Godhead with one person but three different manifestations is a false doctrine, a heresy known as Modalism or Sabellianism. The official doctrine of the Catholics/Protestant Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead -- much like what the Latter-day Saints believe -- but that in some mysterious and impossible to understand way these three separate and distinct individual persons are one God.

So the Catholics, the Protestants and the Latter-day Saints all believe each member of the Godhead is a separate and distinct individual person, but where the the Latter-day Saints part company with the Catholics and Protestants is that to the Latter-day Saints the reason why the three separate persons of the Godhead are one God is not an incomprehensible mystery but is simply and easily explained. To the Latter-day Saints, the reason why the three individual persons of the Godhead are one God is because God cannot exist and function as a creating, atoning and sanctifying divine force unless there is a Godhead composed of three separate persons, each with his own unique and indispensable role, functioning as an interdependent unit with one divine purpose and goal -- to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

But there is another reason why the Latter-day Saimts believe the three individual personages of the Godhead are one God, and that is that each member of the Godhead has a mind that is filled to eternal fullness with the uncreated Spirit of divine truth and intelligence. It is for this reason that the three individual personages of the Godhead think alike, understand alike, act alike, and feel alike; for the thoughts, intelligence, actions and emotions of one are the same thoughts, intelligence, actions and emotions of the others. Each of these three personages is filled to eternal fulness with the same divine Spirit and that Spirit capacitates each member of the Godhead with the power of perfect love, knowledge, wisdom, judgment and motivations: and through the indwelling of that same Spirit each is filled with perfect and holy emotions. It is for these reasons the Latter-day Saints believe the three separate personages of the Godhead are of one heart and one mind, perfectly united in all things, and, therefore, one God.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

 It is for this reason that the three individual personages of the Godhead think alike, understand alike, act alike, and feel alike; for the thoughts, intelligence, actions and emotions of one are the same thoughts, intelligence, actions and emotions of the others. 

If by this you mean they have the same personalities, are identical in all mental and emotional ways, I think you are taking it too far.  Being one in purpose still allows for different thoughts and feelings in unique people.

[Bobbieaware]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

If by this you mean they have the same personalities, are identical in all mental and emotional ways, I think you are taking it too far.  Being one in purpose still allows for different thoughts and feelings in unique people.

I subscribe to Bruce R. McConkie's explanation on the unity of the Godhead. Call me a troglodyte if you wish for believing Elder McConkie's take on this subject, but I do. And whether or not each member of the Godhead is exactly like the others in each and every way, it is of no import to me for each of them is a free agent and each can make up his own mind as to the kind of being he want to be, and the kind of things he wants to enjoy. And if in the end it turns out they all like and dislike the same things, what difference does it make? But if there are personal differences (personal likes and dislikes) they would surely be about things that are eternally unimportant -- like whether or not one of them prefers vanilla ice cream and the other chocolate. But when it comes to the eternally important things -- like whether or not each of them loves me perfectly -- it would certainly shatter my confidence in the Godhead if I knew that they played favorites. Here is Elder McConkie's view of the subject:

1. They are three in number, three separate persons: the first is the Father; the second, the Son; and the third, the Holy Ghost. They are three individuals who meet together, counsel in concert, and as occasion requires travel separately through all immensity. They are three holy men, two having bodies of flesh and bones, the third being a personage of spirit.

2. They are one and dwell in each other, meaning: They have the same mind one with another; they think the same thoughts, speak the same words, and perform the same acts—so much so that any thought, word, or act of one is the thought, word, or act of the other.

3. They possess the same character, enjoy the same perfections, and manifest the same attributes, each one possessing all of these in their eternal and godly fulness.

4. Their unity in all things, their perfect oneness in mind, power, and perfections, marks the course and charts the way for faithful mortals, whose chief goal in life is to unite together and become one with them, thereby gaining eternal life for themselves.

5. Our Lord is the manifestation of the Father, meaning: God is in Christ revealing himself to men so that those who believe in the Son believe also in the Father, and unto such the Father gives the Holy Ghost, and they being thus purified in Christ are fit to dwell with him and his Father forever. (The Promised Messiah)

 

[Tiffany]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

I subscribe to Bruce R. McConkie's explanation on the unity of the Godhead. Call me a troglodyte if you wish for believing Elder McConkie's take on this subject, but I do. And whether or not each member of the Godhead is exactly like the others in each and every way, it is of no import to me for each of them is a free agent and each can make up his own mind as to the kind of being he want to be, and the kind of things he wants to enjoy. And if in the end it turns out they all like and dislike the same things, what difference does it make? But if there are personal differences (personal likes and dislikes) they would surely be about things that are eternally unimportant -- like whether or not one of them prefers vanilla ice cream and the other chocolate. But when it comes to the eternally important things -- like whether or not each of them loves me perfectly -- it would certainly shatter my confidence in the Godhead if I knew that they played favorites. Here is Elder McConkie's view of the subject:

1. They are three in number, three separate persons: the first is the Father; the second, the Son; and the third, the Holy Ghost. They are three individuals who meet together, counsel in concert, and as occasion requires travel separately through all immensity. They are three holy men, two having bodies of flesh and bones, the third being a personage of spirit.

2. They are one and dwell in each other, meaning: They have the same mind one with another; they think the same thoughts, speak the same words, and perform the same acts—so much so that any thought, word, or act of one is the thought, word, or act of the other.

3. They possess the same character, enjoy the same perfections, and manifest the same attributes, each one possessing all of these in their eternal and godly fulness.

4. Their unity in all things, their perfect oneness in mind, power, and perfections, marks the course and charts the way for faithful mortals, whose chief goal in life is to unite together and become one with them, thereby gaining eternal life for themselves.

5. Our Lord is the manifestation of the Father, meaning: God is in Christ revealing himself to men so that those who believe in the Son believe also in the Father, and unto such the Father gives the Holy Ghost, and they being thus purified in Christ are fit to dwell with him and his Father forever. (The Promised Messiah)

 

I've read and reread your posts and thought about it. The last one really made sense for me and I really appreciate it because I understand it now. On another note, i wonder if the holy ghost is maybe gods father. 

[thesometimesaint]

2. They are one and dwell in each other, meaning: They have the same mind one with another; they think the same thoughts, speak the same words, and perform the same acts—so much so that any thought, word, or act of one is the thought, word, or act of the other.

At least during his mortal ministry that is unsupportable.

[Storm Rider]

8 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

2. They are one and dwell in each other, meaning: They have the same mind one with another; they think the same thoughts, speak the same words, and perform the same acts—so much so that any thought, word, or act of one is the thought, word, or act of the other.

At least during his mortal ministry that is unsupportable.

I think you will find that McConkie was talking about the Son in present terms rather than his existence during the very limited time he was in mortality.  

[Bobbieaware]

5 hours ago, Tiffany said:

I've read and reread your posts and thought about it. The last one really made sense for me and I really appreciate it because I understand it now. On another note, i wonder if the holy ghost is maybe gods father. 

It's much, much more likely that the Holy Ghost is a spirit son of God who has not yet, but eventually will, receive a body. From the beginning, LDS theology has consistently asserted that, generally speaking, possessing a body -- most especially a glorified one -- places a being in a more advanced state of spiritual progress than someone who does not yet have a glorified body.

[Tiffany]

16 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

It's much, much more likely that the Holy Ghost is a spirit son of God who has not yet, but eventually will, receive a body. From the beginning, LDS theology has consistently asserted that, generally speaking, possessing a body -- most especially a glorified one -- places a being in a more advanced state of spiritual progress than someone who does not yet have a glorified body.

Oh that's interesting! I always not having a body meant you were more spiritually developed past needing one. That's interesting, I can see it better as him being a son. 

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Tiffany said:

Oh that's interesting! I always not having a body meant you were more spiritually developed past needing one. That's interesting, I can see it better as him being a son. 

Think of it this way, if the body is such a hindrance to spiritual expression and holiness, why in the wisdom of God was Christ resurrected with a body? Why didn't he just die and then remain an unembodied spirit forever? If Christ would have been more spiritually advanced and liberated without a human body, why would the compassionate and all-wise God have saddled him with a body forever? 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Tiffany]

3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Think of it this way, if the body is such a hindrance to spiritual expression and holiness, why in the wisdom of God was Christ resurrected with a body? Why didn't he just die and then remain an unembodied spirit forever? If Christ would have been more spiritually advanced and liberated without a human body, why would the compassionate and all-wise God have saddled him with a body forever? 

That's a wonderful connection to make, and it makes perfect sense thinking about bodies in that way and reminds me of things I've heard before about some Mormons having lots of kids because they believe there's lots of souls that need to be brought into the world and other things I've heard about bad spirits desperately trying to get living bodies because they didn't have one of their own. So it really does make sound sense that bodies would be more meaningful than a formless energy. I really appreciate all your feedback and help, you have cleared up a lot of uncertainty and questions I've had. I'm very grateful. 🌺🌹🌻