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Those that are against this law and were not against the laws passed against the gay community are hypocrites.  It is the exact same law.  The only difference is the group it targets.

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1 hour ago, california boy said:

Those that are against this law and were not against the laws passed against the gay community are hypocrites.  It is the exact same law.  The only difference is the group it targets.

Which laws? I remember some not expanding an existing institution but if someone was passing laws requiring gays to be silent in public or require a special permit to talk about their lives and even then limit it to gay bars then I believe I would have opposed such an odious measure.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Which laws? I remember some not expanding an existing institution but if someone was passing laws requiring gays to be silent in public or require a special permit to talk about their lives and even then limit it to gay bars then I believe I would have opposed such an odious measure.

Those are the exact laws Russia passed against gays a couple of years ago.  It became illegal to say anything or show any kind of symbol in public about being gay or even mentioning anything about being gay in public.  Many spoke out against that law in defiance of the government, including Madona

 

What happened after that law was passed was an increased violence against the gay community.  Sadly, I would expect the same kind of violence to now be directed against those of religious beliefs that these new laws are directed at.

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5 hours ago, california boy said:

Those are the exact laws Russia passed against gays a couple of years ago.  It became illegal to say anything or show any kind of symbol in public about being gay or even mentioning anything about being gay in public.  Many spoke out against that law in defiance of the government, including Madona

 

What happened after that law was passed was an increased violence against the gay community.  Sadly, I would expect the same kind of violence to now be directed against those of religious beliefs that these new laws are directed at.

I was not following that development though I know their anti-homosexuality laws are draconian and barbaric and I think that in any civilized society any leaders proposing or defending such insanity would be dragged out in the streets and shot. Sadly they are not a very civilized country and their nation is in trouble for it and, to be honest, they deserve it.

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On June 29, 2016 at 7:15 PM, toon said:

Now Christians, Mormons, and gays can join hands in Russia advocating for civil rights.

Little to nothing happens in Russia that is not scripted to serve as propaganda. :( 

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It wasn't until today that I opened this topic and started reading through it, and did with so increasing horror that Valentinus might have become possessed by some demon or gone completely around the bend, because it didn't sound like him at all, celebrating this proposed law in Russia.

And then he collapses the state vector by admitting he was trolling the entire time!

Whew.  You had me going, Val.  That wasn't just trolling, that was world-class trolling! :D

 

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

It wasn't until today that I opened this topic and started reading through it, and did with so increasing horror that Valentinus might have become possessed by some demon or gone completely around the bend, because it didn't sound like him at all, celebrating this proposed law in Russia.

And then he collapses the state vector by admitting he was trolling the entire time!

Whew.  You had me going, Val.  That wasn't just trolling, that was world-class trolling! :D

 

Nah, He really means it.

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Apparently missionaries will remain in Russia. Not sure what they are going to do there.

SALT LAKE CITY — The LDS Church released a statement on Friday afternoon saying that its missionaries will remain in Russia in the wake of a new law that restricts missionary work in the country.

"The church recognizes a new law will take effect in Russia on July 20, 2016, that will have an impact on missionary work," said the statement released by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on mormonnewsroom.org. "The church will honor, sustain and obey the law. Missionaries will remain in Russia and will work within the requirements of these changes. The church will further study and analyze the law and its impact as it goes into effect."

The law, signed by President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, sparked widespread concern about the future of missionary work in Russia among Christians, Muslims and Jews.

The law is largely an anti-terrorism tool that requires phone companies to store calls and text messages and includes stronger penalties for terrorist acts or for supporting or financing them.

But the law also creates a broad definition for missionary work. It requires that all missionaries have permits from an official religious organization. Fines range as high as $780 per missionary and $15,500 per organization.

The LDS Church is officially recognized in Russia.

Critics of the law claim it also restricts missionary work to churchs and religious sites. Christianity Today warned last month that it restricts sharing faith online and even in homes.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865657728/Mormon-missionaries-to-remain-in-Russia-despite-new-law-restricting-missionary-work.html?pg=all

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On July 9, 2016 at 2:35 AM, JAHS said:

 

Apparently missionaries will remain in Russia. Not sure what they are going to do there.

SALT LAKE CITY — The LDS Church released a statement on Friday afternoon saying that its missionaries will remain in Russia in the wake of a new law that restricts missionary work in the country.

"The church recognizes a new law will take effect in Russia on July 20, 2016, that will have an impact on missionary work," said the statement released by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on mormonnewsroom.org. "The church will honor, sustain and obey the law. Missionaries will remain in Russia and will work within the requirements of these changes. The church will further study and analyze the law and its impact as it goes into effect."

The law, signed by President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, sparked widespread concern about the future of missionary work in Russia among Christians, Muslims and Jews.

The law is largely an anti-terrorism tool that requires phone companies to store calls and text messages and includes stronger penalties for terrorist acts or for supporting or financing them.

But the law also creates a broad definition for missionary work. It requires that all missionaries have permits from an official religious organization. Fines range as high as $780 per missionary and $15,500 per organization.

The LDS Church is officially recognized in Russia.

Critics of the law claim it also restricts missionary work to churchs and religious sites. Christianity Today warned last month that it restricts sharing faith online and even in homes.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865657728/Mormon-missionaries-to-remain-in-Russia-despite-new-law-restricting-missionary-work.html?pg=all

When Russia passed anti gay laws not allowing any speech from the gay community, the church said nothing.  No protest.  No press release condemning the laws.  No rallies to fight these laws.  And now Russia has gone after the church.  A sad turn of events for both restrictions of freedom of speech.  The church has my sympathies.  Any ideas on how to influence the changing of these laws?

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2 hours ago, california boy said:

When Russia passed anti gay laws not allowing any speech from the gay community, the church said nothing.  No protest.  No press release condemning the laws.  No rallies to fight these laws.  And now Russia has gone after the church.  A sad turn of events for both restrictions of freedom of speech.  The church has my sympathies.  Any ideas on how to influence the changing of these laws?

The church didn't really say much about this either; no protest, no condemnation, only that they will obey and honor the law. The church will be patient and continue to do the things they have been doing that are now legal. Hopefully the government will notice the good will and humanitarian efforts made by the church on behalf of the people and the positive effects it has on them there and eventually allow them to once again actively share the gospel.

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You can't even find a statement anywhere but BYU's paper when Lebed in 1996, the man people were watching after Yeltsin, came out and called the Church "scum" and "filth" and urged they get kicked out.

http://universe.byu.edu/1996/07/03/lds-advocates-chasten-lebe/

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-07-19/news/mn-25727_1_mormon-mission

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/499372/LEBED-SORRY-FOR-PICKING-ON-MORMONS---SORT-OF.html?pg=all

 

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On 7/10/2016 at 7:00 AM, california boy said:

When Russia passed anti gay laws not allowing any speech from the gay community, the church said nothing.  No protest.  No press release condemning the laws.  No rallies to fight these laws.  And now Russia has gone after the church.  A sad turn of events for both restrictions of freedom of speech.  The church has my sympathies.  Any ideas on how to influence the changing of these laws?

The church protesting would have done nothing but make us a target. We do not have enough strength in Russia to influence policy.

Russia is going down a dangerous path out of desperation. Their power on the world stage is eroding. The parallels to 1930s Germany are troubling. I don't think it will go the same way (I don't anticipate war) but I would not want to be a minority or part of a group in Russia for the next few decades. :( 

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On June 29, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Calm said:

Have you ever been to Russia?  At the time we were there we were told by many Russians who did not know our faith as well as others who did was all that the Russian Orthodox Church cared about was getting the gold back on their domes and the property back from the government (iirc, before the Revolution they owned a 1/4 of the land in Russia and the residents were essentially serfs in many areas).  All the donation drives I saw being done by nuns were for renovations, important indeed, but I would have expected more balance.  It was reported that the vast majority of the humanitarian charity work being done was outside churchs.

The antireligious feelings promoted in the not so distant past by the Russian Orthodox Church in the 90s, for example, wanting to kick all by three faiths out of the country (theirs, Muslims and Buddhists iirc, even other Orthodox churches were not to be allowed) was vicious at times.

I don't understand the desire to restrict freedom of religious thought myself.

That was the 90s,when the collapse of the Soviet Union finally freed the ROC to actually, exist. Their view was, prior to the Sobiet suppression of the ROC, Russia was a fully Christianized country, with a strong national identity of being Russian Othodox.

The ROC was desimated, entirely, and entered the new Russia free of the Soviet Union with a desire to rebuild what had been destroyed. Churches, religious and clergy, and the faith of the Russian people.  They absolutely viewed foreign missionaries and churches as interfering at best, as vultures circling a spiritually vulnerable people more likely.

To curb the flood of every religious zealot heading to Russia, laws were enacted that prohibited what the west would call "cults". Otherwise, religious freedom was not restricted. But the Russian people have not recovered, religious speaking, from the communist era. Most people, especially anyone under 50, are atheists. The ROC is viewed by the young as outdated, something for old people who are nostalgic for a long lost past.

That was then. This new law, and the other laws enacted with it, are Putin's strongest changes towards Soviet era draconian laws to date. The ROC is NOT exempt from this new law that restricts religious freedom. It would actually be a better sign that they were.

Edited by saemo
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"All Mormon missionaries serve on a volunteer basis, but to comply with the new law set to take effect Wednesday, the LDS Church is making adjustments to what the missionaries assigned to Russia are involved with and known as."

If they are doing primarily volunteer work and are restricting missionary work to when they are at church, do you see an issue?

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6 hours ago, Calm said:

"All Mormon missionaries serve on a volunteer basis, but to comply with the new law set to take effect Wednesday, the LDS Church is making adjustments to what the missionaries assigned to Russia are involved with and known as."

If they are doing primarily volunteer work and are restricting missionary work to when they are at church, do you see an issue?

Heck no, I guess they will be taught not to proselytize. 

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I believe the weakest religions are those that can't tolerate it's members being exposed to other preaching.  If one's religion is so great, then it will be able to withstand the false teachings of other religions.  And no, I don't believe restricting the message on the property of or in the immediate vicinity of one's holy sites qualifies as this type of intolerance.

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2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

It is not under attack in the US.

The US does not exist in isolation nor is the Church solely an American one, unconcerned with other countries and how their behaviour can impact the rest of the world.

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