A modern day tent city?

[Tacenda]

As I watched this last night, I immediately thought commune...then this Steve Gleason said it...anyway pretty interesting.  

http://kutv.com/news/local/provo-neighbors-rally-against-developers-planned-community-of-the-future

c/p:

"He is probably one of the most delusional people I've ever heard of," said Linda Gleason, a longtime resident.

"It's a commune," added her husband, Steve Gleason, of Hall's idea. "It's not innovative. It's not new."

Hall, a Provo businessman, is quickly buying up houses in the Pleasant View area. He hopes to tear them down and build something inspired by the teachings of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith."

I guess he has visions for other communities as well...

http://digital.vpr.net/post/planning-sustainable-community-utah-foundation-buys-land-central-vermont#stream/0

Another article...

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/provo-man-buying-up-property-and-planning-to-build-cities/article_dd784c4f-9299-5762-b6f7-6dd4628c01c5.html

Edited June 17, 2016 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

While 200 square feet of living space is very small. It is very far from a commune.

Tiny houses.

SEE https://www.mthoodtinyhouse.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Mt_Hood_Tiny_House#portfolio

[ksfisher]

Where do tents enter into it?

[Calm]

Hardly a tent city:

http://www.newvistasfoundation.org/

People need to experiment with new ways of living in order to maintain quality of life while accomodating more.  Just continuing to build big isn't going to work.

I would love to get rid of the car, guess they would have to have rentals when leaving community.  Not sure I coild downsize that much and not go claustrophobic though.  Have to have my own space.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

Where do tents enter into it?

http://www.nofearpreps.com/a-greater-tomorrow.html. A modern version of this.

[Calm]

The communities being designed and planned for by this foundation have nothing in common with Rowe's vision besides intending to house a lot of people.  The developer's plan requires a working government, infrastructure, economy, etc. There is nothing remotely disaster prep about it.

[Calm]

This guy may have been in part inspired by United Order examples, bu he specifically states the communities won't be based on religion because history has shown that doesn't work.  His central theme seems to be having a sustainable and ecologically friendly economy and community...

I am not sure why you jumped to tent cities with this.  If you look at the plans, it is a very sophisticated building community.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

As I watched this last night, I immediately thought commune...then this Steve Gleason said it...anyway pretty interesting.  

http://kutv.com/news/local/provo-neighbors-rally-against-developers-planned-community-of-the-future

c/p:

"He is probably one of the most delusional people I've ever heard of," said Linda Gleason, a longtime resident.

"It's a commune," added her husband, Steve Gleason, of Hall's idea. "It's not innovative. It's not new."

Hall, a Provo businessman, is quickly buying up houses in the Pleasant View area. He hopes to tear them down and build something inspired by the teachings of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith."

I guess he has visions for other communities as well...

http://digital.vpr.net/post/planning-sustainable-community-utah-foundation-buys-land-central-vermont#stream/0

Another article...

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/provo-man-buying-up-property-and-planning-to-build-cities/article_dd784c4f-9299-5762-b6f7-6dd4628c01c5.html

We have Prophets today, just like Joesph Smith, my guess is they will give us updates. These small homes are all the rage against those who see humans as the enemy of the earth. I have downsized, not because I am the enemy of the earth, just because it is just the wife and I. 

[Calm]

Not everyone into small homes see humans as the enemy of earth, not sure you were impying that but just to be sure.  A number of supporters see it as a way to allow those in less economically advantaged areas to still own decent housing, also for areas that have maxed out or are close to maxing out available living space as well as avoiding using up land now being used for food for housing.  Many have the attitude that spending hours every day in a car to get what one needs lowers quality of life as well.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not everyone into small homes see humans as the enemy of earth, not sure you were impying that but just to be sure.  A number of supporters see it as a way to allow those in less economically advantaged areas to still own decent housing, also for areas that have maxed out or are close to maxing out available living space as well as avoiding using up land now being used for food for housing.  Many have the attitude that spending hours every day in a car to get what one needs lowers quality of life as well.

I have seen many shows about them and this what the implication of many. Also the the opening thread was based on tearing down homes and tent cities based on prophecies from Joseph. I used to inspect and help with habitat for humanity for many years before my injuries. That was what I was speaking to, I am for anything that will help anyone get into any home. I feel that it is the duty of all believers to aid the poor as we are able, as King Mosiah so wonderfully put it, any who think the poor are deserving and saying, "therefore I will stay my hand, have no part in the Kindom of Heaven". I just wish I could still help build such homes. There was no attempt to offend with my words, it is just every time I see the term "Tent City" it reminds me of those who take the words of Prophets out of context to play on fear to make a profit. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Not everyone into small homes see humans as the enemy of earth, not sure you were impying that but just to be sure.  A number of supporters see it as a way to allow those in less economically advantaged areas to still own decent housing, also for areas that have maxed out or are close to maxing out available living space as well as avoiding using up land now being used for food for housing.  Many have the attitude that spending hours every day in a car to get what one needs lowers quality of life as well.

I wonder why he has to bring Joseph Smith into it then? If it's as you say, I don't mind that I guess.  I'm looking to downsize.  In fact I drug my husband to a home today to see a home for sale that is small and a lot less expensive then our current home.  He was so upset that I wanted to live there, because it was in need of a lot more work than pictures showed.  

But I would love to move into a town home or condo, Except that my husband has a couple of RV's and they're the thorn in my side as far as finding the right price and space for them.  I can see how a community like this would be beneficial for many people, but the reasons this man wants to build them seem a little strange.  I am being mistrustful again, thinking maybe this guy wants to bring a lot of LDS people in, by mentioning Joseph Smith etc.

I'll bet you just want to beat me Calm.  I'm on one these days.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Tacenda

[Calm]

He also has a site in Vermont.  I have no clue if that is a Mormon dense area.  Take a look at the site, it is quite interesting and similar to other projects I have seem.

There are a couple of projects that are similar in the Provo/Orem area in that they are commercial property on the bottom and apartments on top with theidea that shopping and entertainment and maybe work all within the community.  This plan looks like it takes it two or three steps further, adding government and schools and then food production with more energy efficient units as well (I am not sure I could give up a bath, kind of essential for my rls).  I think they would need to be a bit more adaptable to draw a wide enough market...say use sitting up soaker tubs.  Can't figure out the sleeping arrangements, haven't found floor plans yet. It talks about using curtain walls and such.  I am not sure it fits well with the larger family LDS style, but probably would work for students, starting families and empty nesters.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wonder why he has to bring Joseph Smith into it then? If it's as you say, I don't mind that I guess.  I'm looking to downsize.  In fact I drug my husband to a home today to see a home for sale that is small and a lot less expensive then our current home.  He was so upset that I wanted to live there, because it was in need of a lot more work than pictures showed.  

But I would love to move into a town home or condo, Except that my husband has a couple of RV's and they're the thorn in my side as far as finding the right price and space for them.  I can see how a community like this would be beneficial for many people, but the reasons this man wants to build them seem a little strange.  I am being mistrustful again, thinking maybe this guy wants to bring a lot of LDS people in, by mentioning Joseph Smith etc.

I'll bet you just want to beat me Calm.  I'm on one these days.

Explained above...sorry if misunderstood. Most threads that use terms like tent city leads to books by (name most know) and his feeding the fears of Latter-day Saints to promote his business ventures to profit on those fears. I read his book, after countless talks over countless years where members would use his many quotes taken out of context from Church leaders from Joseph on down from it's first publication. Which has probably been re-published. As for the houses, I had added in such efforts, for the sake of the poor. But as of late, many shows have used the size of these houses to suggest how more should be "friends of the earth" and stop building oversized houses, as an example of the evils of America. Please forgive, you know it has never been in my nature to offend. Nothing has changed since yesterday, still the same guy. Maybe, enough for today. 

[Calm]

It seems a strange place to plan such an area unless he thinks it would be highly appealing to those who work at BYU.  Gone are the days where that area was a draw because of the temple.  I can see it as student apartments, but the high turnover andlow investment in the community of students seem contrary to what his goals are.  Houses are older and smaller and probably need upgrading so I can see that, but why not go somewhere tobuild from scratch rather than tear down houses that with some work are still livable?

Since it is an LDS dense area, it makes sense for him to point to how he was inspired by JS so that it is looked at less as some hippie commune or political statement...which it has been anyway.

[Calm]

Hmm...he claims in the Vermont article that it is not a religious community, but then pushes JS on his website (didn't see this earlier):

http://www.newvistasfoundation.org/

See the principles menu and his reference to JS and Society.

Bad move on his part, imo.  I think he might be able to appeal to a greater market without the religious overtones and I suspect the LDS market for this is too small.

[Calm]

And I don't see how he can include either the agricultural or the industry aspects into Pleasant View.  He would have to be able to buy every home in the area and bulldoze it to get the ultimate plan even partially there.  Don't see that happening unless Provo government backed him and started seizing homes.

Would like to know what he is thinking.

[Calm]

Not impressed with either business practices or his attitude (see the end where he is telling homeowners they need to move out):

https://preservepleasantview.org/more-information/

Why in the world buy land to build apartments in an area zoned for single family?  Doesn't seem ethical...as in his group plans on buying enough homes until they can pressure the zoning change whether or not the residents or the city likes the idea.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Calm

[The Nehor]

Seems like an idealistic jerk. If you have an idea for a sustainable self-supporting community only taking a few square miles why is this idiot trying to build it in a preexisting neighborhood? Utah has lots of cheap desert. Go out there beyond the city limits and it would be easy to get building permits.

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Where do tents enter into it?

No cars allowed?  Okay, this is reminding me of Walking Dead and them not being able to leave the community.   

C/P from the link from Calm....https://preservepleasantview.org/more-information/  Thanks Calm!

How does NewVista describe a NewVistas community? “A NewVistas community is not based on religion nor led by and is not owned by any person or run by a religion. It also not a city or a state and does not create law. It is very different than any Person might imagine. You cannot understand it without studying it carefully. The NewVistas concepts have as its foundation 5 pages of a community design recorded in 1833 by Fredrick G Williams. The early [LDS] church leaders did not have the documents as they were lost until 1868. We can learn from the mistakes of the early Mormons but their efforts to establish a community were only partially based on lose recollections of what the documents contain.” 13 “In a NewVistas community every square foot is garden. Housing and community buildings are under greenhouses. Farmers have labor for their box gardens because people are present. The whole community is walkable a-b. Nobody owns a car because they don't need one. I have studied this for 40 years and this is not just some crazy idea. It is the future.” 14 “In NewVistas the complete acreage is green. There are easements every 600 feet for wildlife and each full NewVistas is surrounded by 288 square miles of wilderness.” 15 “It [NewVistas] is not natural. It is a pattern that requires a lot of people or it will collapse. A bee hive cannot exist without Lots of bees. Humans also need lots of other Humans to be productive. We are not productive when we spread out and try and insert ourself into nature as if we can exist with nature alone without people close around. The NewVistas system recognizes the need for humans to congregate close yet have space all around and privacy as well as community.” 16 ““Human beings are meant to be close to each other in a community and not spread out in little fenced in kingdoms where they have to get into a car to say high to someone. If you study my website you will find that the community is run by the voice of the people at multiple levels. No person controls and no person or group of people own. The capitalist is the community corporation. I don't own the community but neither does anyone.” 17 see also the NewVista web page - newvistafoundation.org

[Calm]

I love the idea (save the lack of bathtubs and maybe solid walls for a sense of refuge/privacy).  But I find the way he is implementing it (buying property and basically kicking people out rather than finding converts who want to build and work to build a new community) quite selfish and it appears to be unethical as well.

If the numerous pools have at least some warm and are open 24/7 for late night attacks, I would be willing to make due without a tub. 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

This is what I fond arrogant and shortsighted:

  “ The area is in distress because of its location and the growth of BYU.  It is time for all to move out and on with their lives and I am providing an easy way for all to exit at a premium.”

Arrogant because he is telling people what to do wothout consideration for what they want, he seems to think just giving enough money is all that is needed.  Shortsighted because if the growth of BYU is a problem for the community now of 40 homes, what will it be like for 800? (his numbers)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It seems a strange place to plan such an area unless he thinks it would be highly appealing to those who work at BYU.  Gone are the days where that area was a draw because of the temple.  I can see it as student apartments, but the high turnover andlow investment in the community of students seem contrary to what his goals are.  Houses are older and smaller and probably need upgrading so I can see that, but why not go somewhere tobuild from scratch rather than tear down houses that with some work are still livable?

Since it is an LDS dense area, it makes sense for him to point to how he was inspired by JS so that it is looked at less as some hippie commune or political statement...which it has been anyway.

That is why and what I way trying to say, as the OP did the same. Guess I did a very poor job. 

[Robert F. Smith]

See Kenneth Rexroth, Communalism: From Its Origins to the Twentieth Century (N.Y.: Seabury, 1974), in which he discusses Mormon communitarianism (see pp. 239, 274, 279, 306.  Online at https://libcom.org/files/Rexroth Kenneth - Communalism.pdf ..