How to communicate love to LGBT members?

[Mystery Meat]

In all sincerity, I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them. In all my discussions online and in real life, it seems to me that what pro-gay/LGBT advocates want in order to communicate love is basically a repudiation of eternal truth, sound doctrine, revelation and scriptural precedent. But maybe I am wrong. For those of you who think member of the Church could be more loving, what do you specifically have in mind?

For my part I am unwilling to give up any of the following:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships; rather we need to proactively teach the Lord's standard on this and that such is sinful behavior.
• Teach that it is not okay for men to marry men and women to marry women.
• Encourage members who feel attracted to members of their same gender that they should not embrace their temptation, celebrate it and/or seek to act upon it. That would be like any other sinner with innate, natural man desires to embrace those sinful inclinations and celebrate them. It should not be seen or treated as the central defining characteristic of their identity. Nor should such define themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, homosexual, queer, or LGBT, as if that is the central focus of their existence. It is okay that they have temptations and it doesn't make them any less worthy than anyone else. They can acknowledge that temptation, even publicly, but we must teach the doctrines of the Church and the Lord and that ALL members should have a testimony of them.
• People who act contrary to the Lord's will and violate the Law of Chastity are subject to Church discipline, whether that is through heterosexual or homosexual relations.

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

[VideoGameJunkie]

It's hard. I try to think I would handle it if my child came out to me as gay. I would love them no matter what and my patriarchal blessing specifically says my children will be mine throughout eternity and I will "never have to apologize for these children." I don't know what never have to apologize for them means, but if one or more turn out gay, I'm promised I'll never have to apologize for them and they'll be with me through all eternity. My patriarchal blessing promises me. So i'm not worried.

[Sky]

I would suggest following the counsel on http://mormonsandgays.org.  This is a Church sponsored website.  It is also our best resource right now for learning how to balance the Church's teachings about chastity with showing love to our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

Also, I don't think you always have to verbally inform LGBT people that you think acting on their same-sex attractions is a sin.  Letting them tell their stories (including their frustrations) without preaching or correcting or patronizing them can go a long way.  There may be a place for correction at times - when the spirit directs.  But most often I think your job is to just be their friend.

 

Quote

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou has reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;  D&C 121: 43

 

[Thinking]

8 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

It's hard. I try to think I would handle it if my child came out to me as gay.

My son has come out as gay, and is currently trying to live a celibate life as an active LDS man. It's been a roller coaster ride so far with his emotions. He needs a lot of support.

[Thinking]

1 hour ago, Mystery Meat said:

I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them.

People care more about what others do than what they say.

[Eek!]

Good for you MM!  It sounds like you really desire to do what's right and be of service to your fellow beings. 

What do you think about adding "love your neighbor as yourself" to your list of things you are unwilling to compromise on, considering the status Jesus gave to that particular commandment?

And assuming you do so, if there seems to be irreconcilable conflict between the commandments on your updated list, figure out which is the higher law and, until you can reconcile the conflicts, err in favor of that higher law.  

Also, it's okay not to judge one another. That's Someone else's job. 

Bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man is not our job either.  But to the extent that we can lighten one another's burdens and remove barriers to the Holy Spirit's voice, we are assisting the Christ in His work.  The Holy Spirit is at work in everyone's life, but He cannot get through when a person is defensive and angry or fearful, and so we need to be harmless.  "...wise as serpents and harmless as doves." 

When in doubt, you might want to refer back to the two commandments that Jesus said were the highest, and upon which hang all the law and the prophets. 

Once you have decided to let Someone else do whatever judging needs to be done, a burden is lifted and you are free to live the second great commandment without reservation, for "perfect love casts out all fear".

You can't fully love someone that you look down on or condemn, and Jesus didn't teach commandments that are impossible for us to keep. 

This is all just my opinion, of course. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Eek!

[california boy]

3 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

In all sincerity, I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them. In all my discussions online and in real life, it seems to me that what pro-gay/LGBT advocates want in order to communicate love is basically a repudiation of eternal truth, sound doctrine, revelation and scriptural precedent. But maybe I am wrong. For those of you who think member of the Church could be more loving, what do you specifically have in mind?

For my part I am unwilling to give up any of the following:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships; rather we need to proactively teach the Lord's standard on this and that such is sinful behavior.
• Teach that it is not okay for men to marry men and women to marry women.
• Encourage members who feel attracted to members of their same gender that they should not embrace their temptation, celebrate it and/or seek to act upon it. That would be like any other sinner with innate, natural man desires to embrace those sinful inclinations and celebrate them. It should not be seen or treated as the central defining characteristic of their identity. Nor should such define themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, homosexual, queer, or LGBT, as if that is the central focus of their existence. It is okay that they have temptations and it doesn't make them any less worthy than anyone else. They can acknowledge that temptation, even publicly, but we must teach the doctrines of the Church and the Lord and that ALL members should have a testimony of them.
• People who act contrary to the Lord's will and violate the Law of Chastity are subject to Church discipline, whether that is through heterosexual or homosexual relations.

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

First I want to tell you how deeply touched that you would ask this question. First and foremost,  I want to make this crystal clear. I do not want, nor do I expect you to waiver one bit on your core beliefs that you outlined above.  I think this is an important issue to really make clear because so many members think that is what is being asked of them.  It is not.

So how can you show love to anyone who is gay without sacrificing your personal beliefs?  I would simply say to you, follow the example of Christ himself.  Not once did he accept sin or waiver on his integrity or core beliefs.  You should not either.

So ask yourself, how did Christ show love to those that were breaking the commandments? (which would be every single person he came in contact with).  He showed his love not by his sermons, but by his actions.  He served them.  That takes action.  That takes actually doing something.  We don't want to hear that you love us.  We want to see that you love us.  So maybe pray about how you can specifically serve the gay population in your area.  Here are a few ideas off the top of my head.

 • Get involved.  I don't know what organizations or support structure there is in your community, but I could give you a lot of specific organizations in my community.  If you want help with that, tell me where you are from, I would be glad to help find a list of organizations in your area that specifically focus on the gay community.  Google makes it pretty easy these days.

 * Find one that specifically interests you and maybe capitalizes on your talents.  Maybe it is serving in a soup kitchen like "Helping Hands".  Maybe it is a homeless shelter for gay youth that are living on the streets.  Maybe it is drug counseling.  Maybe it is a suicide hot line.  Maybe it is a political organization fighting discrimination laws against gays.  I am not talking about a drive by afternoon.  I am talking about regularly scheduling something on your calendar.  Whether it is once a week, once every two weeks or once a month.  Just commit.

 * Support fund raising events such as the AIDS  I am not talking about writing a check.  I am talking about getting involved.  One that I am familiar with is the AIDs Lifecycle ride that takes place every year from San Francisco to Los Angeles.  Be a rider.  Or work in food preparation, or logistics.  It is an amazing life changing event.  I can't tell you how much my life has changed by participating.  There are other rides and other walks.  Just choose something.  

 • If you know someone that is gay, include them in your life.  Invite them along to family activities both within the church and without.  I would go to every single baptism, missionary farewell, wedding, family reunion or whatever, if my family just asked me to.  Unfortunately no one ever asks and no one ever tells me when they are happening.  I pretty much don't feel a part of the family.  Or just invite them to dinner.  When I was raising my children, every sunday we would invite at least one person to share our dinner with us.  And we would have amazing conversations, learning more about their lives, their passions, their beliefs.  In looking back, I think it was one of the most significant things I did to teach my children about love, caring for others and looking past prejudice and other faults.  

One of my favorite quotes that I try to live by is "be wisely selfish, and give of yourself to others."  Not sure where it came from, but it is very similar to the message Christ gave about loosing ones life to find it.  But the idea that it ultimately will be your life that is enriched more than you can possibly understand.  

I hope this helps.  I wish you well on your quest to show love towards others.  I would love to hear if you ever did anything and what the results were.  So much of what the gay community hears from the church and church members are just empty platitudes that they "love" gays.  Ask yourself, what would Christ do.  Do you think he walked around telling everyone that he loved everyone even the sinners?  Or did he actually seek them out and included them in his life.  

Thanks again for asking the question.

 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

First I want to tell you how deeply touched that you would ask this question. First and foremost,  I want to make this crystal clear. I do not want, nor do I expect you to waiver one bit on your core beliefs that you outlined above.  I think this is an important issue to really make clear because so many members think that is what is being asked of them.  It is not.

So how can you show love to anyone who is gay without sacrificing your personal beliefs?  I would simply say to you, follow the example of Christ himself.  Not once did he accept sin or waiver on his integrity or core beliefs.  You should not either.

So ask yourself, how did Christ show love to those that were breaking the commandments? (which would be every single person he came in contact with).  He showed his love not by his sermons, but by his actions.  He served them.  That takes action.  That takes actually doing something.  We don't want to hear that you love us.  We want to see that you love us.  So maybe pray about how you can specifically serve the gay population in your area.  Here are a few ideas off the top of my head.

 • Get involved.  I don't know what organizations or support structure there is in your community, but I could give you a lot of specific organizations in my community.  If you want help with that, tell me where you are from, I would be glad to help find a list of organizations in your area that specifically focus on the gay community.  Google makes it pretty easy these days.

 * Find one that specifically interests you and maybe capitalizes on your talents.  Maybe it is serving in a soup kitchen like "Helping Hands".  Maybe it is a homeless shelter for gay youth that are living on the streets.  Maybe it is drug counseling.  Maybe it is a suicide hot line.  Maybe it is a political organization fighting discrimination laws against gays.  I am not talking about a drive by afternoon.  I am talking about regularly scheduling something on your calendar.  Whether it is once a week, once every two weeks or once a month.  Just commit.

 * Support fund raising events such as the AIDS  I am not talking about writing a check.  I am talking about getting involved.  One that I am familiar with is the AIDs Lifecycle ride that takes place every year from San Francisco to Los Angeles.  Be a rider.  Or work in food preparation, or logistics.  It is an amazing life changing event.  I can't tell you how much my life has changed by participating.  There are other rides and other walks.  Just choose something.  

 • If you know someone that is gay, include them in your life.  Invite them along to family activities both within the church and without.  I would go to every single baptism, missionary farewell, wedding, family reunion or whatever, if my family just asked me to.  Unfortunately no one ever asks and no one ever tells me when they are happening.  I pretty much don't feel a part of the family.  Or just invite them to dinner.  When I was raising my children, every sunday we would invite at least one person to share our dinner with us.  And we would have amazing conversations, learning more about their lives, their passions, their beliefs.  In looking back, I think it was one of the most significant things I did to teach my children about love, caring for others and looking past prejudice and other faults.  

One of my favorite quotes that I try to live by is "be wisely selfish, and give of yourself to others."  Not sure where it came from, but it is very similar to the message Christ gave about loosing ones life to find it.  But the idea that it ultimately will be your life that is enriched more than you can possibly understand.  

I hope this helps.  I wish you well on your quest to show love towards others.  I would love to hear if you ever did anything and what the results were.  So much of what the gay community hears from the church and church members are just empty platitudes that they "love" gays.  Ask yourself, what would Christ do.  Do you think he walked around telling everyone that he loved everyone even the sinners?  Or did he actually seek them out and included them in his life.  

Thanks again for asking the question.

 

If only I could keep upvoting I would.  CB, what lucky children to have you for an example.  And your ex wife!  And now you and your partner!  I learned a thing about myself today and what I can do.  I have a wooden saying on my kitchen table that reads..."You can preach a better sermon with your life than with your lips".  Now if only I would do it.

[rockpond]

8 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

In all sincerity, I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them. In all my discussions online and in real life, it seems to me that what pro-gay/LGBT advocates want in order to communicate love is basically a repudiation of eternal truth, sound doctrine, revelation and scriptural precedent. But maybe I am wrong. For those of you who think member of the Church could be more loving, what do you specifically have in mind?

For my part I am unwilling to give up any of the following:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships; rather we need to proactively teach the Lord's standard on this and that such is sinful behavior.
• Teach that it is not okay for men to marry men and women to marry women.
• Encourage members who feel attracted to members of their same gender that they should not embrace their temptation, celebrate it and/or seek to act upon it. That would be like any other sinner with innate, natural man desires to embrace those sinful inclinations and celebrate them. It should not be seen or treated as the central defining characteristic of their identity. Nor should such define themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, homosexual, queer, or LGBT, as if that is the central focus of their existence. It is okay that they have temptations and it doesn't make them any less worthy than anyone else. They can acknowledge that temptation, even publicly, but we must teach the doctrines of the Church and the Lord and that ALL members should have a testimony of them.
• People who act contrary to the Lord's will and violate the Law of Chastity are subject to Church discipline, whether that is through heterosexual or homosexual relations.

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

I second CB's answer.

[rodheadlee]

10 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

 

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

Just be friends, treat them the same as you would any neighbor, member or not. I don't define people by their sexuality, race or religion. I tend to define them by their occupation. We all have things in common, among my friends it's a love for boating. Set an example by being Christian/Mormon not by preaching Mormonism. Love your neighbor as yourself.

[Kevin Christensen]

Sometimes a different way of looking at things is helpful, a change of perspective that illuminates aspects of the situation that tend to be overlooked when viewing from the bottom of one or the other of a set of well-worn grooves.

http://squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleChristensenRashomon.html

For instance.

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[TheSkepticChristian]

10 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships

WRONG!! Tell them instead, "My religious beliefs disagree with same-sex relationships" 

Please don't threaten people with Hell! Why are you trying to force them to change? It is not okay to impose religious beliefs in the culture, the USA is not a Mormon culture. 

Imagine that an old man from the FLDS church tells a 12 year old that is not okay for her to be single. How would you feel about that? 

Edited June 6, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[Mystery Meat]

10 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

WRONG!! Tell them instead, "My religious beliefs disagree with same-sex relationships" 

Please don't threaten people with Hell! Why are you trying to force them to change? It is not okay to impose religious beliefs in the culture, the USA is not a Mormon culture. 

Imagine that an old man from the FLDS church tells a 12 year old that is not okay for her to be single. How would you feel about that? 

Okay....

[Mystery Meat]

6 hours ago, california boy said:

First I want to tell you how deeply touched that you would ask this question. First and foremost,  I want to make this crystal clear. I do not want, nor do I expect you to waiver one bit on your core beliefs that you outlined above.  I think this is an important issue to really make clear because so many members think that is what is being asked of them.  It is not.

So how can you show love to anyone who is gay without sacrificing your personal beliefs?  I would simply say to you, follow the example of Christ himself.  Not once did he accept sin or waiver on his integrity or core beliefs.  You should not either.

So ask yourself, how did Christ show love to those that were breaking the commandments? (which would be every single person he came in contact with).  He showed his love not by his sermons, but by his actions.  He served them.  That takes action.  That takes actually doing something.  We don't want to hear that you love us.  We want to see that you love us.  So maybe pray about how you can specifically serve the gay population in your area.  Here are a few ideas off the top of my head.

 • Get involved.  I don't know what organizations or support structure there is in your community, but I could give you a lot of specific organizations in my community.  If you want help with that, tell me where you are from, I would be glad to help find a list of organizations in your area that specifically focus on the gay community.  Google makes it pretty easy these days.

 * Find one that specifically interests you and maybe capitalizes on your talents.  Maybe it is serving in a soup kitchen like "Helping Hands".  Maybe it is a homeless shelter for gay youth that are living on the streets.  Maybe it is drug counseling.  Maybe it is a suicide hot line.  Maybe it is a political organization fighting discrimination laws against gays.  I am not talking about a drive by afternoon.  I am talking about regularly scheduling something on your calendar.  Whether it is once a week, once every two weeks or once a month.  Just commit.

 * Support fund raising events such as the AIDS  I am not talking about writing a check.  I am talking about getting involved.  One that I am familiar with is the AIDs Lifecycle ride that takes place every year from San Francisco to Los Angeles.  Be a rider.  Or work in food preparation, or logistics.  It is an amazing life changing event.  I can't tell you how much my life has changed by participating.  There are other rides and other walks.  Just choose something.  

 • If you know someone that is gay, include them in your life.  Invite them along to family activities both within the church and without.  I would go to every single baptism, missionary farewell, wedding, family reunion or whatever, if my family just asked me to.  Unfortunately no one ever asks and no one ever tells me when they are happening.  I pretty much don't feel a part of the family.  Or just invite them to dinner.  When I was raising my children, every sunday we would invite at least one person to share our dinner with us.  And we would have amazing conversations, learning more about their lives, their passions, their beliefs.  In looking back, I think it was one of the most significant things I did to teach my children about love, caring for others and looking past prejudice and other faults.  

One of my favorite quotes that I try to live by is "be wisely selfish, and give of yourself to others."  Not sure where it came from, but it is very similar to the message Christ gave about loosing ones life to find it.  But the idea that it ultimately will be your life that is enriched more than you can possibly understand.  

I hope this helps.  I wish you well on your quest to show love towards others.  I would love to hear if you ever did anything and what the results were.  So much of what the gay community hears from the church and church members are just empty platitudes that they "love" gays.  Ask yourself, what would Christ do.  Do you think he walked around telling everyone that he loved everyone even the sinners?  Or did he actually seek them out and included them in his life.  

Thanks again for asking the question.

 

Thank you for sharing this. I will take it to heart. I think I realized in the thread about the ribbons that we talk past each other and fail to realize how much we have in common. I will try to focus on that in the future.

[CV75]

10 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved?

Don't define or focus on self others according to sexual behavior or tendencies but as children of God. From there, bring them into your life as practicable and follow the Spirit, just as you would anyone else. Charity covers a multitude of sins and will help soften any social faux pas and any Gospel teaching or testifying.

[phaedrus ut]

How could members of the church communicate love to black men and women prior to 1978?  I think the answer is the same. 

Edit: To clarify: When your church teaches a particular group of people are inherently flawed, based on race or sexual orientation, it's difficult to express genuine love if you aren't willing to reject the prejudice of your religion.   

Phaedrus 

Edited June 6, 2016 by phaedrus ut

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If only I could keep upvoting I would.  CB, what lucky children to have you for an example.  And your ex wife!  And now you and your partner!  I learned a thing about myself today and what I can do.  I have a wooden saying on my kitchen table that reads..."You can preach a better sermon with your life than with your lips".  Now if only I would do it.

I so agree with this.  CB shows more Christlike love than so many people here.  His example is how I would like to be with everyone!  I think it is wonderful that MM has posed this question and I admire that.  Thanks MM.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Jeanne

[HappyJackWagon]

11 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

In all sincerity, I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them. In all my discussions online and in real life, it seems to me that what pro-gay/LGBT advocates want in order to communicate love is basically a repudiation of eternal truth, sound doctrine, revelation and scriptural precedent. But maybe I am wrong. For those of you who think member of the Church could be more loving, what do you specifically have in mind?

For my part I am unwilling to give up any of the following:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships; rather we need to proactively teach the Lord's standard on this and that such is sinful behavior.
• Teach that it is not okay for men to marry men and women to marry women.
• Encourage members who feel attracted to members of their same gender that they should not embrace their temptation, celebrate it and/or seek to act upon it. That would be like any other sinner with innate, natural man desires to embrace those sinful inclinations and celebrate them. It should not be seen or treated as the central defining characteristic of their identity. Nor should such define themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, homosexual, queer, or LGBT, as if that is the central focus of their existence. It is okay that they have temptations and it doesn't make them any less worthy than anyone else. They can acknowledge that temptation, even publicly, but we must teach the doctrines of the Church and the Lord and that ALL members should have a testimony of them.
• People who act contrary to the Lord's will and violate the Law of Chastity are subject to Church discipline, whether that is through heterosexual or homosexual relations.

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

Treat them with respect and love.

Then explain to them how they can live a fulfilled, joyful life and eternity completely alone.

FWIW- it's unlikely they'll believe verbal expressions of love from an individual if that same person is also calling them apostate and their family "counterfeit".  Don't call them deviants. Don't treat them as second class citizens. Don't act repulsed by their existence. Treat them as a person, not a sin.

 

[Tacenda]

Deleted, wrong thread.

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Tacenda

[Daniel2]

Things you can say to demonstrate love and encourage mutual respect without compromising your personal beliefs:

• Hey, I love and appreciate you (and your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/partner) and all you do for me/us/our family/mom/dad/etc.
• I know it’s not easy being alone, and how meaningful it can be to be to find someone who you feel comfortable and are combatable with.  Regardless of our different beliefs, I’m glad you’ve found someone who makes you happy.
• I hope you know me well enough that even though you know my beliefs and values as a Latter-day Saint, we can love and respect each other even though we don’t always see eye to eye.
• If you ever need anything, you (and your bf/gf/spouse/significant other) please don’t hesitate to let me know.
• I’m here for you if you need anything—a listening ear, a friend to laugh with, or whatever.
• I appreciate you!

Things to do to demonstrate love and encourage mutual respect without compromising your personal beliefs:

• Sincerely ask about how your LGB loved one’s spouse/partner/bf/gf is doing.
• Show genuine interest in their relationship, and care about how they are doing.

Things to avoid saying or to doing demonstrate love and encourage mutual respect without compromising your personal beliefs:

• Don’t ignore your LGB loved one’s relationship by refusing to acknowledge said relationship, such as avoiding asking how their partner/spouse/bf/gf is, refusing to put their name on shared correspondence (i.e. Christmas cards, Graduation or Wedding Announcements, etc).
• Don’t sermonize or evangelize about your beliefs about the sinful nature of same-sex relationships, especially to another adult (or even teen, depending on the circumstances).  Chances are, they already know your thoughts and feelings, and just as they don’t cast their personal aspersions about your religion to you in the name of mutual respect, so, too, should you avoid casting aspersions about their relationship on them, in the name of mutual respect.
• Treat their spouses/significant others with as much love, affection, and acceptance as you’d treat any other respectful and polite (assuming they are) non-LDS member of your family.

Bottom Line:  I think it’s always helpful to remember The Golden Rule in situations like these: do unto gay and lesbian family members and friends as you would have them do unto you:

•  Treat their relationships with as much respect and care as you would want them to treat your religious Faith. 
• Avoid preaching or sermonizing to them about your feelings about their relationships or perceived sins as much as you would want them to avoid preaching or sermonizing to you about their feelings of anti-Mormonism may apply to your beliefs and the history of your church.
• Be as considerate and respectful as you’d like to be treated with respect and consideration.  Ask yourself: “Would I be willing to sit and listen to as much anti-Mormon discussion about my church’s doctrines and history as I expect them to sit through while I want share with them about the sinfulness of same-sex relationships and ‘so-called same-sex marriage’ and the ‘true’ definition of marriage?”

[Daniel2]

11 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

In all sincerity, I would like to know what can be done to communicate to LGBT members (and nonmembers) that we love them. In all my discussions online and in real life, it seems to me that what pro-gay/LGBT advocates want in order to communicate love is basically a repudiation of eternal truth, sound doctrine, revelation and scriptural precedent. But maybe I am wrong. For those of you who think member of the Church could be more loving, what do you specifically have in mind?

For my part I am unwilling to give up any of the following:

• Teach that it is not okay for people of the same-sex to have romantic relationships; rather we need to proactively teach the Lord's standard on this and that such is sinful behavior.
• Teach that it is not okay for men to marry men and women to marry women.
• Encourage members who feel attracted to members of their same gender that they should not embrace their temptation, celebrate it and/or seek to act upon it. That would be like any other sinner with innate, natural man desires to embrace those sinful inclinations and celebrate them. It should not be seen or treated as the central defining characteristic of their identity. Nor should such define themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, homosexual, queer, or LGBT, as if that is the central focus of their existence. It is okay that they have temptations and it doesn't make them any less worthy than anyone else. They can acknowledge that temptation, even publicly, but we must teach the doctrines of the Church and the Lord and that ALL members should have a testimony of them.
• People who act contrary to the Lord's will and violate the Law of Chastity are subject to Church discipline, whether that is through heterosexual or homosexual relations.

I am to understand that the above mean I am unloving, based on my conversations. I think that is wrong and unfair. So assuming all of the above cannot be taken off the table and that this will continue to be the framework that the Kingdom of God will operate with, is there anything that can be done to show these gay members that they are loved? Or do we have to embrace sin? Help me understand.

In addition to what I wrote above...

If by "for my part, I am unwilling to give up on any of the following" of your bullet-pointed list, you mean that you hope I wouldn't ask you to change those internal beliefs, I have no problem with that.  I fully support the right we all share to maintain our personal beliefs, as well as acting on those beliefs in respectful ways at the appropriate times, when the timing is appropriate or when audiences/listeners are receptive to what we have to share and offer.

However, by "for my part, I am unwilling to give up on any of the following" of your bullet-pointed list, you mean that if during your interactions with me, you would feel the need to keep reminding me of those teachings you feel strongly about, then I would return in kind by unwilling to stop sharing with you all my feelings about the errors, mistakes, distortions, and inaccuracies of Mormonism and encouraging you to leave it's corrosive beliefs and behaviors behind, and then ask if you feel as if I am showing you love and if you are still comfortable being my friend...? 

In other words, I wouldn't expect you to abandon your beliefs, or even teaching and promoting them to audiences who were receptive and happy to listen, but if you were unable to respectfully refrain from continually harassing me with those beliefs, then--emphatically--no, we would not continue being friends and I would likely avoid further interaction with you in real life.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Daniel2

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

If by "for my part, I am unwilling to give up on any of the following" of your bullet-pointed list, you mean that during your interactions with me, you would feel the need to keep reminding me of those teachings you feel strongly about, then I would return in kind by unwilling to stop sharing with you all my feelings about the errors, mistakes, distortions, and inaccuracies of Mormonism and encouraging you to leave it's corrosive beliefs and behaviors behind, and then ask if you feel as if I am showing you love and if you are still comfortable being my friend...?  I would expect you to abandon your beliefs, or even teaching and promoting them to audiences who were receptive and happy to listen, but if you were unable to respectfully refrain from continually harassing me with those beliefs, then--emphatically--no, we would not continue being friends and I would likely avoid further interaction with you in real life.

It feels like when you are friends with someone and you want to harp on them, for whatever you may feel is their problem, it's more about you feeling superior than you loving your friend. From my non-gay Mormon perspective it seems like many gay members and/or ex members feel less love coming from their member friends and family and more a need to be right, or a need to feel superior.  I may be off a bit because my experience is limited.  But that is exactly what I'd fear anyone ever would get from me.  I want to genuinely love people and I want them to feel that. 

[thesometimesaint]

The best way is to start actually loving them.

[Mystery Meat]

1 minute ago, thesometimesaint said:

The best way is to start actually loving them.

Do you assume I don't?

[Mystery Meat]

1 hour ago, Daniel2 said:

However, by "for my part, I am unwilling to give up on any of the following" of your bullet-pointed list, you mean that if during your interactions with me, you would feel the need to keep reminding me of those teachings you feel strongly about, then I would return in kind by unwilling to stop sharing with you all my feelings about the errors, mistakes, distortions, and inaccuracies of Mormonism and encouraging you to leave it's corrosive beliefs and behaviors behind, and then ask if you feel as if I am showing you love and if you are still comfortable being my friend...? 

In other words, I wouldn't expect you to abandon your beliefs, or even teaching and promoting them to audiences who were receptive and happy to listen, but if you were unable to respectfully refrain from continually harassing me with those beliefs, then--emphatically--no, we would not continue being friends and I would likely avoid further interaction with you in real life.

I think herein lies part of the problem. In my personal life I don't have the need (nor the authority) to go around telling LGBT folks that they are sinners. But what about at Church? What about for those who have priesthood and ministerial duties to God to preach repentance, including to LGBTs? Especially when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Kingdom of God on Earth and its leaders (and missionaries) have a sacred obligation to preach repentance to all of the world, and not just faithful Latter-day Saints or to "audiences who were receptive and happy to listen." Is there no way to do so, without being called unloving?

Can the Church be a loving place for such? I believe that it can, but what say you?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Mystery Meat