sealing Unstuck

[DaddyRose]

Lets say your spouse was mentally ill, and left you alone to raise a large group of children. Your spouse left the family and got involved in a same-sex marriage.

Later down the road, you convert to the LDS Church, you are ordained an elder, receive your endowment, and you have baptized and confirmed your pre-age 8 children.

Lets say you are a member of little to no means, and raising your children alone has put a physical strain on you, and left you a shell of what you once were.

You and your children have come to grips with the reality that you will die, and your children will never be sealed to you. You can always us the handy thread killer of "it will be handled on the other side", and indeed the thread/conversation is effectively closed. But what does that do for the here and now? If we are here to gain a testimony, experience, etc. before returning to Heavenly Father, is equating hopelessness with Faith all that there is to be gleaned from that persons failure in this life, to be with a forever family?

[rpn]

I presume in your hypothetical that you also raise your children to believe in God and to get their own temple ordinances, including being sealed to a worthy spouse.   Whether they choose as adults to be sealed to you and a woman you married, or not, God is mindful of them.   He is mindful of you too.  And when you die and your ex spouse dies, your children can have you sealed to each other and be sealed to you.  (Of course that may not be how it works out eternally, but as of now, you can perform the sealing ordinances of anyone to anyone after they are dead IF they were married on earth, including to multiple people.)

Since figuring out this issue is so very difficult for those involved, it also becomes a stumbling block that Satan can use liberally.   There is nothing hopeless in waiting on the Lord's time table, because He has promised that He will not withhold any blessings from those who would have if they could have, and who endure to the end.   Neither you nor your children will be denied any blessings because of other's choices.  

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, DaddyRose said:

Lets say your spouse was mentally ill, and left you alone to raise a large group of children. Your spouse left the family and got involved in a same-sex marriage.

Later down the road, you convert to the LDS Church, you are ordained an elder, receive your endowment, and you have baptized and confirmed your pre-age 8 children.

Lets say you are a member of little to no means, and raising your children alone has put a physical strain on you, and left you a shell of what you once were.

You and your children have come to grips with the reality that you will die, and your children will never be sealed to you. You can always us the handy thread killer of "it will be handled on the other side", and indeed the thread/conversation is effectively closed. But what does that do for the here and now? If we are here to gain a testimony, experience, etc. before returning to Heavenly Father, is equating hopelessness with Faith all that there is to be gleaned from that persons failure in this life, to be with a forever family?

"...comes to grips with the reality that you will die,..." Do you mean you will die soon and there is no time to be sealed unto you in the Temple? I am trying to follow what you are say...could you expand on this? Unless dead and buried, there is still time, not as a couple, but that can be handled after her death on her part. Of course only if after death that she wishes it...she will still have her free will. This all of course if we are talking real world and not speaking in "what if's". 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, DaddyRose said:

Lets say your spouse was mentally ill, and left you alone to raise a large group of children. Your spouse left the family and got involved in a same-sex marriage.

Later down the road, you convert to the LDS Church, you are ordained an elder, receive your endowment, and you have baptized and confirmed your pre-age 8 children.

Lets say you are a member of little to no means, and raising your children alone has put a physical strain on you, and left you a shell of what you once were.

You and your children have come to grips with the reality that you will die, and your children will never be sealed to you. You can always us the handy thread killer of "it will be handled on the other side", and indeed the thread/conversation is effectively closed. But what does that do for the here and now? If we are here to gain a testimony, experience, etc. before returning to Heavenly Father, is equating hopelessness with Faith all that there is to be gleaned from that persons failure in this life, to be with a forever family?

And what if it turns out you were the mentally ill one all along and you are in an asylum imagining all this while your spouse married the person of their dreams and raised your children together while you were stuck in a rubber room? Oh, cruel irony!

[DaddyRose]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

And what if it turns out you were the mentally ill one all along and you are in an asylum imagining all this while your spouse married the person of their dreams and raised your children together while you were stuck in a rubber room? Oh, cruel irony!

Knowing my luck, that indeed sounds plausible. Praise God I at least have access to mormondialogue.org in my imagination!

[DaddyRose]

8 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

"...comes to grips with the reality that you will die,..." Do you mean you will die soon and there is no time to be sealed unto you in the Temple? I am trying to follow what you are say...could you expand on this? Unless dead and buried, there is still time, not as a couple, but that can be handled after her death on her part. Of course only if after death that she wishes it...she will still have her free will. This all of course if we are talking real world and not speaking in "what if's". 

I think the girls and I have reached a state of hopelessness, knowing that no woman will ever want to be their mother, let my wife. I am not dying anytime soon, but there is real life DaddyRose that hinder us being sealed. We are poor, as poor as dirt poor gets, and there is a total of 8 Girls with 4 little ones that she would have step into. Even adding into the mix, a few health problems, that left me broken. All this opinion being taken from both non-member and member women, both single and married. Which must carry some authority, seeking are they know their peers.

My children can't understand why they just can't get sealed to me only,. And we simply continue the broken family we have now.?

Their fear is real, and I think it is fair to allow them to petition those fears to whoever will listen.

As for me, Is it ok to just accept the hopelessness, seeing as the Atonement has me covered for salvation, and just chalk this up to the Lord's Will? Maybe my family is a vessel made for destruction?

[rpn]

 

It sounds like you have many reasons to feel hopeless.   But it also sounds to me like talking to your HTers about what you can do to make you more marriageable might be a way you can work towards where you want to be.  And the RS might help your older children get strong in helping you manage your household.   Yes, it would take an unusual woman to want to join an 8 child family with a dh that cannot provide for them.   But there are probably things you could do to increase the odds of meeting such a woman.

If you cannot afford therapy for depression, then consider using https://ecouch.anu.edu.au/welcome

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, DaddyRose said:

I think the girls and I have reached a state of hopelessness, knowing that no woman will ever want to be their mother, let my wife. I am not dying anytime soon, but there is real life DaddyRose that hinder us being sealed. We are poor, as poor as dirt poor gets, and there is a total of 8 Girls with 4 little ones that she would have step into. Even adding into the mix, a few health problems, that left me broken. All this opinion being taken from both non-member and member women, both single and married. Which must carry some authority, seeking are they know their peers.

My children can't understand why they just can't get sealed to me only,. And we simply continue the broken family we have now.?

Their fear is real, and I think it is fair to allow them to petition those fears to whoever will listen.

As for me, Is it ok to just accept the hopelessness, seeing as the Atonement has me covered for salvation, and just chalk this up to the Lord's Will? Maybe my family is a vessel made for destruction?

You asked that we not use the "it will be handled in the next life" thread killer, but it's true.

There was a time in Church History when it would have been handled in this life too, but those days are long past.
In the early days of the Church with such a challenge you would probably have been advised to find an ancestor, a single lady who never had the opportunity to marry, and have her sealed to you.  Then your children could be sealed to both.

But sadly, sealings of this nature aren't currently practiced (at least as far as I am aware) so we are left to believe God when he tells us that all blessings we live worthy of will be ours eventually.

[DaddyRose]

8 hours ago, rpn said:

And the RS might help your older children get strong in helping you manage your household.

Actually, both the RS & YW have gone out of their way to find ways to interact with the girls.

 

8 hours ago, rpn said:

If you cannot afford therapy for depression,

The hopelessness doesn't really feel like depression. Nothing debilitating about it. Nothing that affects my functionality.

 

8 hours ago, rpn said:

what you can do to make you more marriageable

That right there is where the hopelessness lay! Far, far too many women in the church need a credit check from priesthood holders. The Latter Days seem to be coming upon us faster and faster.

[rpn]

Come on now.  It is not unreasonable to want a partner who pulls his or her own weight in a marriage in all areas.   And it is pretty common for both men and women who are raised lds to be skeptical of all but the most traditional of roles: men providing, and women nurturing.

And even if you are very poor now, and have stayed home with the kids, it is time to start sharpening your skills in all areas so that you can be viewed as an equal partner.   Refusal or failure to do that can be an unhealthy coping mechanism, just not a life preference.

If you are in debt, get out.  If you need more income donate plasma or do surveys or odd jobs.  If you haven't worked, get some tuneup skills classes, learn coding at codeacademy, volunteer with your children somewhere.   Get healthy (the best thing about being really poor is that rice and beans, or corn and beans can be a pretty healthy diet; and walking because you cannot afford a car helps you feel better.

And go do the survey at the link I suggested.  And go through the exercises.  It is cognitive behavior therapy that helps you learn healthy thinking skills.  Everyone can use that.

If you focus on moving forward  instead of what you cannot have, then you're on your way to something.   (And if you told us where you live, maybe someone knows someone who might be willing to at least venture a friendship with you.)

[DaddyRose]

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

so we are left to believe God when he tells us that all blessings we live worthy of will be ours eventually.

Which is all I have had, but I feel like I am using it as a crutch, more than an act of...  Staying Temple worthy, and finding any reason to get there beyond youth trips. Taking the opportunity to go to the celestial room before leaving, to petition in prayer.

That seems to be the only reasonable answer so far, seeing as the Temple is still the only place that feels like it holds the answer to.

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, DaddyRose said:

Which is all I have had, but I feel like I am using it as a crutch, more than an act of...  Staying Temple worthy, and finding any reason to get there beyond youth trips. Taking the opportunity to go to the celestial room before leaving, to petition in prayer.

That seems to be the only reasonable answer so far, seeing as the Temple is still the only place that feels like it holds the answer to.

Let me say this as clearly as I can.
If you are faithful and living up to your temple covenants you will have all the blessings you could ever hope for if you are willing to accept them.

I am a firm believer in D&C 130:20-21  (I quote it to death on this board).

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

If you are living the law then you will get the blessing.  Not "it will be handled on the other side" but you WILL get the blessing.  It is sure.  God says when we do what he says he is bound.  If you are living worthy of marriage and eternal family you will get it, not in some mystical way but whether living or dead you will get your blessing.

[DaddyRose]

12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

If you are living the law then you will get the blessing.  Not "it will be handled on the other side" but you WILL get the blessing.  It is sure.  God says when we do what he says he is bound.  If you are living worthy of marriage and eternal family you will get it, not in some mystical way but whether living or dead you will get your blessing.

 

I think that is the answer to my problem. This quote should be my perspective. "in some mystical sleight of hand card trick" was how I envisioned it, as opposed to something more omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. I will just have to keep my focus on my Priesthood, and the Temple. (Even though the men's changing room is far too small at the Winter Quarters Temple here in Omaha. LOL)

[DaddyRose]

1 hour ago, rpn said:

Come on now.  It is not unreasonable to want a partner who pulls his or her own weight in a marriage in all areas.   And it is pretty common for both men and women who are raised lds to be skeptical of all but the most traditional of roles: men providing, and women nurturing...  ...(And if you told us where you live, maybe someone knows someone who might be willing to at least venture a friendship with you.)

Ok, I will give you that much. But then I have a legitimate question relating to that.

I hold a Powerball ticket that cashes in for $311 million. After being all over the news, what am I to assume about all of the visiting single women to our branch in Seward ,from our stake in Lincoln, and the huge stake in Omaha. What should be the logical response to the influx of women from all over Nebraska? 

[rpn]

A.  That they don't know how easily powerball winnings are gone.

B.  That they no longer have to consider whether you can hold up your end of the bargain financially (though see A which suggests that isn't likely reality).

C.  To talk with each to see if there is any common ground and go out with each for at least three dates (if they will).

D.   That they are not the only fish in the sea.

E.   That they aren't very grounded in the gospel to want someone who plays the lottery?

E.   That it is all the range of fantasy.   You apparently just haven't met the person who might see the swan in you.  And maybe you aren't doing your part to become the swan.   Wallowing in one's chips doesn't generally lead to anything better.  (No offense intended.)

[Calm]

On June 2, 28 Heisei at 6:08 PM, DaddyRose said:

Ok, I will give you that much. But then I have a legitimate question relating to that.

I hold a Powerball ticket that cashes in for $311 million. 

I thought you said you were poor?  I am confused here.

[DaddyRose]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I thought you said you were poor?  I am confused here.

It was a "what if"

[DaddyRose]

13 hours ago, rpn said:lowing in one's chips doesn't generally lead to anything better.  (No offense intended.)

Ok, thanks. :-)

[Stargazer]

I've been away from this place for a couple of weeks -- and this is the first conversation I've looked at.  Odd that it cuts so close to home.

The problem is trust, I think.  I've seen vaguely similar scenarios before.  I don't know how a number of them will work out, or have worked out.  But there are examples everywhere.

On my mission in Germany in 1973 I met an elderly sister, in the Wuppertal Branch, who had joined the church perhaps 10 years previously.  She was in her 80's, and had the distinction of having been engaged to be married to a young man who was killed in action in World War I.  She had remained faithful to him in all those years. and never sought another man.  She had served as a nurse during her long working life, and when the Church came to her in the form of missionaries ringing her doorbell, she recognized it immediately as Christ's church.  Because of health issues she could no longer attend church, or even leave her apartment, but we missionaries visited her, and the branch president.  She had had a similar concern to yours, which was what was going to happen to her in the eternal companion department?  She had never been married because the one man she wanted to be married to had died before that could happen, and in any case, she couldn't physically attend the temple anyway.

Doesn't it sound like she was in worse shape than you, and yet she found hope in the one thing that you seem to want to gloss over, that it will be handled on the other side.  That was her only hope, in fact.  And she reveled in it!  You are not yet reduced to that, so you can just get a grip, DaddyRose!    

You write:

Quote

That right there is where the hopelessness lay! Far, far too many women in the church need a credit check from priesthood holders. The Latter Days seem to be coming upon us faster and faster.

Oh, well, some women in the Church need to repent, then.  Ignore them, because they're not what you need.

After my first marriage failed, and at the time I was in the Army, I ended up being transferred to Ft. Gordon, Georgia, right next to the city of Augusta.  In fairly short order I found a divorced mother of 7, who, due to her age (almost 40), and size of family, could have been despairing of finding an eternal companion.  So here I was, 11 years her junior, asking her to marry me.  It turned out that I didn't even want to consider marrying a woman who didn't already have children -- and we went on to have three more together.  What are the odds that just the sort of man she needed would find her?

35 years later she died, but before she did she told me that she was worried about me being all on my own, and said that she expected me to get remarried when she was gone.  So here's a 64-year-old fat guy, and how am I supposed to accomplish this?  Who is going to want to marry such a one as I?  Three months later I met (online) the woman who is now my wife, who is 9 years my junior, a recent widow, who lives in England for crying out loud!  She prefers older men, is quite attractive and could have had the pick of any LDS man who didn't mind the fact that she is sealed to her late husband.  I have a hard time imagining how many more unlikely things could happen.

So, here it is.  Maybe you'll not find an eternal companion in this life, through no fault of your own.  The promise that no blessing that you are worthy of will be withheld from you if you remain faithful should give you hope, and in fact, cause for rejoicing.  Trust in God with all your heart, and don't lean upon your own understanding, I believe, should be your watchword.  Proverbs 3:5,6:

Quote

 

5 ¶Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

Utica, Nebraska is way out in the boonies!  Wikipedia says the population is 861 at the last census!  Odds are, you won't find your eternal companion anywhere nearby.  But this is the 21st century, man!  The entire world is open to you, if you know where to look, and how.  My new wife commented once to me that she hadn't thought there was much chance of finding a worthy priesthood holder to marry her, since she couldn't offer a temple marriage (being previously sealed to another man).  But it didn't matter to me -- the Lord sent her what she needed.

You just need to do that thing, and trust in the Lord with all your heart.  Don't let the possibility discourage you that it may come down to "being handled after this life".  Not only do you need to accept that as a possibility, you need to embrace it and even, dare I say, revel in it!  For your own sake, and for the sake of your children.  They need to see their father trusting in the Lord, in faith.  So that they can do the same.  There are in fact worse situations to be in.  What about the children of a part-member family whose non-member father has utterly no interest in the Church, and then their mother dies?  There is in that situation perhaps even greater despair than you might have, but I know the children of whom I speak, they're in my ward.  They all have faith in the Lord that everything will work out in the end.

Incidentally, there are a couple of single sisters here on this board who might be interested in an instant family.  You never know. 

And if you want to know how I found my new wife, let me know.  Considering your remote location it might be the best option for you.

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, DaddyRose said:

It was a "what if"

So the original post is a what if as well?  If so, may I ask your purpose in asking it?

[Eek!]

This is just my opinion of course...

When it looks as if circumstances have conspired against me, I try to go back to basic and eternal principles that apply. 

These basic, eternal principles include:  God is good, God is fair, and God is no respecter of persons.  

Any line of thinking that results in a different conclusion must have a mistake in it somewhere. 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Eek!

[DaddyRose]

On 6/4/2016 at 0:54 PM, Calm said:

So the original post is a what if as well?  If so, may I ask your purpose in asking it?

It was more of a what if and introduction. I have tried to get answers to that question for years, but it always ends up the same blow-off of it being fixed on the other side, which is basically no answer.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, DaddyRose said:

It was more of a what if and introduction. I have tried to get answers to that question for years, but it always ends up the same blow-off of it being fixed on the other side, which is basically no answer.

I fail to see how that is not an answer. If someone asked how you get to the heavenly promised to the faithful and they said you die and then go there would that be a non-answer because it happens on the other side?

[JLHPROF]

14 hours ago, DaddyRose said:

It was more of a what if and introduction. I have tried to get answers to that question for years, but it always ends up the same blow-off of it being fixed on the other side, which is basically no answer.

No, it is an answer.  It is the correct answer too.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it less true.