activity in the church

[Jude2]

I was asked today what the Church activity rate is, does anyone really know?

[Guest]

Since it is in constant flux, most answers would be a guess. Usually when people ask that they have some axe to grind about the number of members the Church lists at Conference, to show how the Church lies. Every April Conference it is a hot topic on anti-Mormon websites. Every Church, lists members of record and not week to week attentdance. 

[Jude2]

you're right about that

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Pa Pa said:

Since it is in constant flux, most answers would be a guess. Usually when people ask that they have some axe to grind about the number of members the Church lists at Conference, to show how the Church lies. Every April Conference it is a hot topic on anti-Mormon websites. Every Church, lists members of record and not week to week attentdance. 

Actually attendance at all LDS wards and branches is taken weekly by the unit clerk, and it is reported to SLC HQ.  Budget allocations are based on that.  Moreover, the percentage of the total membership of that unit can be immediately calculated.  So activity levels are well understood in great detail.  This varies from one region of the Church to another.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Robert F. Smith

[VideoGameJunkie]

The ward clerk told me that our ward activity rate is around 33% and so is our stake activity. So 1/3 activity rate for my ward and stake.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Actually attendance at all LDS wards and branches is taken weekly by the unit clerk, and it is reported to SLC HQ.  Budget allocations are based on that.  Moreover, the percentage of the total membership of that unit can be immediately calculated.  So activity levels are well understood in great detail.  This varies from one region of the Church to another.

I pointed out this was the case, and members change weekly. So a guess would be the only number. 

[Robert F. Smith]

39 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

I pointed out this was the case, and members change weekly. So a guess would be the only number. 

So the count by the clerk is only a guess?  I've taken the count myself.  It is anything but a guess.  We do have hard figures on activity levels throughout the Church.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

So the count by the clerk is only a guess?  I've taken the count myself.  It is anything but a guess.  We do have hard figures on activity levels throughout the Church.

No the count changes weekly,mor should not count people who are away, or sick or shut ins? Those members are sent to SLC weekly and are never the same. How do you think or which week numbers do you suggest we use. What week or quater would you prefer would sa satusfy you number? 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

No the count changes weekly,mor should not count people who are away, or sick or shut ins? Those members are sent to SLC weekly and are never the same. How do you think or which week numbers do you suggest we use. What week or quater would you prefer would sa satusfy you number?

Ask a statistician why such moving numbers are significant, despite very small differences based on someone being sick or out of town.  Such small discrepancies can be statistically smoothed, and can be graphed so as to give an accurate picture of activity levels in each ward, stake, branch, and region.  With the addition of home teaching, visiting teaching, member & convert baptism numbers, etc., one can create very helpful graphs of the strengths and weaknesses if any unit.  There is nothing new in this sort of analysis, and churches, schools, governments, and merchants have been doing this for a long time.  Why?  Because it is essential to know whether you are succeeding or failing in some ways, in order to fix problems or to emphasize what works (to build on strengths).

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Ask a statistician why such moving numbers are significant, despite very small differences based on someone being sick or out of town.  Such small discrepancies can be statistically smoothed, and can be graphed so as to give an accurate picture of activity levels in each ward, stake, branch, and region.  With the addition of home teaching, visiting teaching, member & convert baptism numbers, etc., one can create very helpful graphs of the strengths and weaknesses if any unit.  There is nothing new in this sort of analysis, and churches, schools, governments, and merchants have been doing this for a long time.  Why?  Because it is essential to know whether you are succeeding or failing in some ways, in order to fix problems or to emphasize what works (to build on strengths).

But Robert, the number they are given is number of members of members, missionaries and baptisms...there is not deception. No attempt to evade. It is only an issue for the critic or disenfranchised, and eternal whiner 

[Robert F. Smith]

20 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

But Robert, the number they are given is number of members of members, missionaries and baptisms...there is not deception. No attempt to evade. It is only an issue for the critic or disenfranchised, and eternal whiner 

I guess that you don't understand at all why it is LDS policy to collect all that data regularly.  Your comments here are absurd.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I guess that you don't understand at all why it is LDS policy to collect all that data regularly.  Your comments here are absurd.

They do collect that data, I just know how to report it or why report shifting data such as this. You "absurd" remark...thank you brother. 

[flameburns623]

PaPa:

I don't know what numbers are collected but let's say it is something like this: 

X number of attendees.

Y number of guests.

Y.a number of Investigators

Z number of home teaching visits.

The Church already knows

X1= the number of members assigned to the Ward.

Z1= the number of home teachers/visiting teachers. 

So a simple formula, probably already plugged into some software, allows the Church to know the percentage of attendees each week, the number of home teaching assignments fulfiled, etcetera. Averaging those numbers over a set period--quarterly (13 weeks) and annually (52 weeks) are common--gives a specific number to work with per ward. 

It is pretty straightforward math. Lots of churches do it. 

 

[Guest]

I already stated many times the Church does collect and keep data on activity rates. Every Ward Clerk, takes a count of the number of people in attendance. These numbers are reported to the Stake and up the line to Salt Lake (The Presiding Bishopric). I was merely noting that it is not a number reported in every April Conference, because it is not what is required by Church commandments to report. I was also pointing out that many groups feel that when the Church reports membership total, that they are somehow lying by quoting activity rates. Every Church that reports membership numbers, not activity rates, we are not doing things any differently than any one else. I don't know how I could be more clear, nor better well said. For anyone who has ever been in a Bishopric, attended a correlation meeting or as a clerk, on any level knows this is a constant topic of discussion in such meetings. It is discussed because this information is collected and known. I am currently serving as a Ward Missionary who is tasked (when not teaching lessons) of finding, or finding out where and why members of record are not attending, or if they have just moved away. Our Ward has on average 62% activity rate. If anything the Church is obsessed with this number, which every High Priest Group Leader, Elder's Q. Pres and Relief Society Pres, are being told that if we get home teaching up we will get activity rates up. 

So for those who believe the Church does not know or track such numbers, are simply uninformed or have an agenda behind their desire to footnote every membership with activity rates. Activity rates are best handled on the local level, as this is where change can best be accomplished. Either why, this thread seems to be becoming about me personally so I started another thread to turn it back to the issue, and not about me. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Pa Pa

[flameburns623]

On 4/27/2016 at 10:59 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

The ward clerk told me that our ward activity rate is around 33% and so is our stake activity. So 1/3 activity rate for my ward and stake.

That sounds about average for many denominations. 

About a third are elderly, ill, handicapped, or constrained by the need to tend for those who are. Or constrained by work.

About a third are disaffected or have lost interest or have died/moved/joined other churches or religions.

40% is deemed very good. 25% or less is deemed very unhealthy.

All of this off the top of my head. I served a non-LDS ministry for several years and those were  the percentages I seem to recall being batted around.

 

[UtahTexan]

who cares?  Does it affect my salvation?

[VideoGameJunkie]

3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

who cares?  Does it affect my salvation?

Yes. It shows how well you were at missionary work.

[UtahTexan]

does it?  

 

I was a missionary over 30 years ago in Central America.  I baptized people almost every week of my mission.  So.....how exactly does Church activity affect my salvation?  

And the only people it seems important to are those who have an ax to grind.....

Get over it

[VideoGameJunkie]

3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

does it?  

 

I was a missionary over 30 years ago in Central America.  I baptized people almost every week of my mission.  So.....how exactly does Church activity affect my salvation?  

And the only people it seems important to are those who have an ax to grind.....

Get over it

Or those who decide how much money goes in a ward budget. I count my wards attendance every week during sacrament meeting. This info is used to decide how much money to budget our ward too. 

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Or those who decide how much money goes in a ward budget. I count my wards attendance every week during sacrament meeting. This info is used to decide how much money to budget our ward too. 

That may be fine for the budget but it doesn't reflect the reality of activity for a follower of the Church and Christ. I may appear to be inactive many weeks but I am actually attending to the needs of others who need my or my wife's help. Next month I'll be going to school for 3 days each weekend. It's to validate many years of experience and get my captains license. I'll just have to sabbath on a different day.

[UtahTexan]

3 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Or those who decide how much money goes in a ward budget. I count my wards attendance every week during sacrament meeting. This info is used to decide how much money to budget our ward too. 

Not true.....I may never go, but tithe 40%...I may not tithe, but go every Sunday...your excuse holds no water.  Again....how is that ax-grinding going?