Spirit Prison

[Ahab]

18 hours ago, Jeanne said:

This is what I was taught also..but one question..can those in "paradise" visit those who are in the "spirit prison"  I put quotes on because we don't completely understand these places.

Yes they can visit but I think the idea is that they can not be forced to stay with them. No kidnapping or taking hostages possible. Not even possible to tie them up with ropes or chains made from spirit matter. Spirit bodies can not be held/ embraced/ or hugged.  No kissing either. Think of ghosts.  We will be ghosts/ spirits when we are dead. I think we will even be able to fly, with not even gravity able to hold us down. But we will still have limits to how far we can go, I think, with our limits based on how far we think we can go, being able to reject thinking anything we don't want to believe.

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

No kissing either.

This made me laugh.

You're a funny guy Ahab.  I for one, certainly hope there will be kissing    

[Ahab]

3 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

I suppose the reason I posed the question in the OP in the first place is that there seems to be varied opinions of after life and what happens.  There are clear statements from church leaders of the facts but often those statements are of their own opinions.  Lots of statements in the JofD are no longer excepted.

You will always be able to find contrary ideas.

Always.

There will never be a time when everybody agrees on everything, and only rarely will you ever find that everyone agrees on anything.

[Ahab]

3 hours ago, longview said:

Don't forget the parable of the "Rich Man and the Beggar Named Lazarus."  See Luke 16:19-31.  It speaks of a "great gulf fixed."

But our Lord bridged that gulf so that the righteous can cross it. Otherwise nobody would be able to do missionary work among the unrighteous,  not even him. 

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

"This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s."  (D&C 130:9)

Sounds like only this earth will be the celestial kingdom where Christ will dwell. However the scriptures also say:

 "But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it." (D&C 130: 5)

We know that God created many worlds that people live on (Moses 1: 33)  So I assume that each of those worlds have their own angels from their own world. Using this same logic I suppose it's possible those other worlds could become celestial kingdoms for their inhabitants. But then Christ and God the Father would have to somehow be on all those Celestial kingdoms.

 

 

... or to somehow be able to visit them all.

I believe traveling from planet to planet is or will be possible, at least for some people.

How far will each of us be able to go, I wonder.

[Ahab]

13 minutes ago, ALarson said:

This made me laugh.

You're a funny guy Ahab.  I for one, certainly hope there will be kissing    

Ghosts kissing?  Would feel like a very dry kiss without any real contact, I think, if you would call that kissing. I like big wet ones. Or at least be able to feel a smack when I make contact.

Air kisses... eh, I don't really consider that kissing. 

[ALarson]

7 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I like big wet ones.

Alrighty then.....let's move on.  

[Jeanne]

28 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Yes they can visit but I think the idea is that they can not be forced to stay with them. No kidnapping or taking hostages possible. Not even possible to tie them up with ropes or chains made from spirit matter. Spirit bodies can not be held/ embraced/ or hugged.  No kissing either. Think of ghosts.  We will be ghosts/ spirits when we are dead. I think we will even be able to fly, with not even gravity able to hold us down. But we will still have limits to how far we can go, I think, with our limits based on how far we think we can go, being able to reject thinking anything we don't want to believe.

Thank you for this.  I realize that they may visit..but unable to live with them.  It was my take that spirits can feel eachother.  I wonder if that is the big different between the prison world and undefined paradise.

[smac97]

22 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

There's no good answer because it is a fantasy. 

Drive-by potshots aren't particularly helpful or conducive to meaningful and constructive dialogue.

As an aside, what are your thoughts about round squares?  And dry water?    These concepts have never made sense to me, but I think anyone who can call him/herself "Atheist Mormon" just might have the intellectual chops to explain them to me.

-Smac

[Atheist Mormon]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Drive-by potshots aren't particularly helpful or conducive to meaningful and constructive dialogue.

As an aside, what are your thoughts about round squares?  And dry water?    These concepts have never made sense to me, but I think anyone who can call him/herself "Atheist Mormon" just might have the intellectual chops to explain them to me.

-Smac

I don't have an opinion about those either, wherever they are originated can be lumped up to "Spirit Prison" concept also.

[Judd]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

when they come to a concensus, it is no conjecture anymore.

"When scientists speak, the thinking has been done."

It's been my experience that the more time people spend in any particular scientific discipline formally, the less their magical world-view (that ironically mirrors the religious caricature they oppose) about science seems to be. There are exceptions to this, however.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Judd

[Atheist Mormon]

9 minutes ago, Judd said:

"When scientists speak, the thinking has been done."

It's been my experience that the more time people spend in any particular scientific discipline formally, the less their magical world-view (that ironically mirrors the religious caricature they oppose) about science seems to be. There are exceptions to this, however.

"When scientists speak, the thinking has been done."

Not even close, if that was the case how could we administer any unproven vaccines, teach evolutionary theories, any astronomical theory.... Thinking & experimenting is never done. Even Einsteins theory might crumble one day. Science does not operate anything like religion..... 

[longview]

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

But our Lord bridged that gulf so that the righteous can cross it. Otherwise nobody would be able to do missionary work among the unrighteous,  not even him. 

True enough.  However, the righteous in Paradise are authorized and sent on a "mission" into the "place of torment" to preach the Gospel.  Those that accept the message are escorted out of hell.  I wonder if a portion of those in hell must first complete the punishment they have been sentenced (judged) before being able to listen to the messengers?   See D&C 138.

[Sanpitch]

28 minutes ago, longview said:

True enough.  However, the righteous in Paradise are authorized and sent on a "mission" into the "place of torment" to preach the Gospel.  Those that accept the message are escorted out of hell.  I wonder if a portion of those in hell must first complete the punishment they have been sentenced (judged) before being able to listen to the messengers?   See D&C 138.

And what is this gospel that is so important.  My mind thinks, word of wisdom, ( is that so important at that stage?) sealed for eternity to one or more wives, does it include attendance at all the meetings.  Just what is the bare bones gospel that is so different than a person following a competing Christian faith?  I'm thinking of the life after death.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Sanpitch
addition

[rodheadlee]

10 hours ago, ALarson said:

It sounds like you had an interesting experience (glad you came back  )

I have read where people who have had a NDE seem to experience whatever they believed would happen (according to their religious beliefs, etc.).  I wonder if this is the case and could possibly be what happened with you?

I've never experienced this, so I don't know and I believe that no one else knows either (not that you don't remember what you experienced).  We have beliefs regarding life after death, but we simply do not know what it is going to be like, so I don't worry too much about it.

.

Thank You,  I was not a member of the Church at the time, nor would I even consider the LDS Church for another year. I then came across their exhibition at the World's Fair in Spokane, Wa. it would be another 8 years before I would be ready to be baptized. I thought I was dead and in hell (Protestant upbringing) at the time. I had never heard of the Outer Darkness.

[JulieM]

18 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

 I thought I was dead and in hell (Protestant upbringing) at the time. I had never heard of the Outer Darkness.

Maybe they're the same even though you call it by a different name now.  Or do you imagine them being different?  Were you afraid that you'd go to hell if you died?  I remember being afraid of that!

My sister died on the operating table for several minutes and came back.  She remembers seeing our grandmother who she was close to and had passed away, Everything was very light and she felt an incredible overwhelming, all encompassing love.  It does seem people have different experiences who go through this.

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by JulieM

[rodheadlee]

45 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Maybe they're the same even though you call it by a different name now.  Or do you imagine them being different?  Were you afraid that you'd go to hell if you died?  I remember being afraid of that!

My sister died on the operating table for several minutes and came back.  She remembers seeing our grandmother who she was close to and had passed away, Everything was very light and she felt an incredible overwhelming, all encompassing love.  It does seem people have different experiences who go through this.

 

Yes i was afraid and they could be the same place. It was totally my fault I was there. Hell would be being separated from God and family for all eternity and knowing it could have been different. It certainly caused me to believe in second chances. I'm trying not to mess this one up.

[Ahab]

23 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

And what is this gospel that is so important.  My mind thinks, word of wisdom, ( is that so important at that stage?) sealed for eternity to one or more wives, does it include attendance at all the meetings.  Just what is the bare bones gospel that is so different than a person following a competing Christian faith?  I'm thinking of the life after death.

The gospel there is the same gospel as here, where the first principle is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the second principle is repentance from doing the things that our Lord tells us through faith that we should not be doing to instead do the things that we should do.  Those 2 principles are the building blocks to learning everything about what we should do or not do, including what we should believe or not believe.  And we must also accept all of the ordinances of the gospel as we walk by faith to learn more and more about the things we should do, including baptism when the time is right and we are ready for it, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost when we are ready for him to teach us more and more about the things we should do.

The life of a disciple of Christ is a life of continual learning until everything there is to be known is known, line by line and precept upon precept.

[Sanpitch]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

The gospel there is the same gospel as here, where the first principle is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the second principle is repentance from doing the things that our Lord tells us through faith that we should not be doing to instead do the things that we should do.  Those 2 principles are the building blocks to learning everything about what we should do or not do, including what we should believe or not believe.  And we must also accept all of the ordinances of the gospel as we walk by faith to learn more and more about the things we should do, including baptism when the time is right and we are ready for it, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost when we are ready for him to teach us more and more about the things we should do.

The life of a disciple of Christ is a life of continual learning until everything there is to be known is known, line by line and precept upon precept.

Thank you for replying.  It is just a thought that crosses my mind about after death and the spirit world.  I would assume we would be much more knowledgeable about what the heck is going on so why the mystery about having faith.  It's like faith is the big thing, you need to have it without all the facts, if we know the facts, we don't need faith.  And if we are clearly aware of the big picture then we don't need to be taught about the plan of salvation and all the perks of living as required.  And all the nitpicking about minor items of repentance and accepting all the ordinances of the gospel and doing what we should do seems to fall by the way side if we have all the facts.  Of course nearly everyone would do as required if there is not mystery involved, maybe some would reject it but how could they if everything is clear?

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Sanpitch said:

Thank you for replying.  It is just a thought that crosses my mind about after death and the spirit world.  I would assume we would be much more knowledgeable about what the heck is going on so why the mystery about having faith.  It's like faith is the big thing, you need to have it without all the facts, if we know the facts, we don't need faith.  And if we are clearly aware of the big picture then we don't need to be taught about the plan of salvation and all the perks of living as required.  And all the nitpicking about minor items of repentance and accepting all the ordinances of the gospel and doing what we should do seems to fall by the way side if we have all the facts.  Of course nearly everyone would do as required if there is not mystery involved, maybe some would reject it but how could they if everything is clear?

Nobody is ever going to force anyone to believe anything, though. Not even God will force someone to accept what is true. He will offer a thought but the one who receives it is still free to reject it, even when he offers the thought that he is the person that some people refer to as God.  The opposing side never will go away. 

Faith is simply about being sure of something,  but everyone can always choose to change their own mind and what they are sure about. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

22 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Yes i was afraid and they could be the same place. It was totally my fault I was there. Hell would be being separated from God and family for all eternity and knowing it could have been different. It certainly caused me to believe in second chances. I'm trying not to mess this one up.

I feel the same way about my psychosis episode where I thought I died and went to spirit prison for 8 straight hours until I came down.

[Jeanne]

On 4/17/2016 at 10:36 AM, ALarson said:

This made me laugh.

You're a funny guy Ahab.  I for one, certainly hope there will be kissing    

As one with a deceased husband..I am a happy camper with this idea!

[Sanpitch]

42 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Nobody is ever going to force anyone to believe anything, though. Not even God will force someone to accept what is true. He will offer a thought but the one who receives it is still free to reject it, even when he offers the thought that he is the person that some people refer to as God.  The opposing side never will go away. 

Faith is simply about being sure of something,  but everyone can always choose to change their own mind and what they are sure about. 

If you have the facts you don't need faith, if you don't have the facts you shouldn't have the faith.

[The Nehor]

On 4/17/2016 at 2:06 PM, Atheist Mormon said:

I don't have an opinion about those either, wherever they are originated can be lumped up to "Spirit Prison" concept also.

If you are truly dedicated there is a way to test it. It is just hard to return and report your results.

[Ahab]

18 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

If you have the facts you don't need faith, if you don't have the facts you shouldn't have the faith.

Consider this scenario:

You die.

Now what are you going to believe?