Mormon Voters Really Don’t Like Donald Trump — Here’s Why

[Rain]

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 0:33 PM, Jeanne said:

I love this.  You are thinking for yourself no matter what.   I wonder about other LDS in your state.  I look at Romney and he knows people will listen to him and yet he doesn't really care for Cruz.  I just think he should have not endorsed anyone if he wanted Rubio.  Good luck to us all!!

Don't assume that people who vote the way the majority of the state is voting are not thinking for themselves. They just think differently than you do.  

Edited March 26, 2016 by Rain

[Stargazer]

On 3/24/2016 at 0:33 PM, Jeanne said:

I love this.  You are thinking for yourself no matter what.   I wonder about other LDS in your state.  I look at Romney and he knows people will listen to him and yet he doesn't really care for Cruz.  I just think he should have not endorsed anyone if he wanted Rubio.  Good luck to us all!!

I always think for myself.  I agree with Romney that Cruz is marginally better than Trump, but that's not saying much.  

Because Trump will likely not come into the convention with a majority of delegates, and after the first ballot all delegates will be freed to vote for whomever they wish, the convention could in the end very well come up with Rubio as the nominee, as a compromise candidate.  Or for that matter, Romney again.  Matters are not at all settled.

[rodheadlee]

On 3/24/2016 at 0:35 PM, Jeanne said:

Perhaps if Cruz pulls this off..if interested (and he says he is not) Rubio could be VP. 

Cruz will get stomped by Hillary.

[rodheadlee]

On 3/25/2016 at 1:46 AM, sunstoned said:

From the numbers that turned out to hear him speak in SLC, I would say there are quite a few Utahans who support Bernie Sanders.

Yeah, free stuff for everybody. Who is going to pay for it? Middle America's back is already breaking under the load.

[Sleeper Cell]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I always think for myself.  I agree with Romney that Cruz is marginally better than Trump, but that's not saying much.

I think that Cruz is substantially better than Trump.  But that’s still not saying much.

[thesometimesaint]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Yeah, free stuff for everybody. Who is going to pay for it? Middle America's back is already breaking under the load.

What "Free Stuff"?

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

What "Free Stuff"?

Well, for one thing, he is advocating free college educations for everybody. (He was just here in Portland saying that and other things).  Who is going to pay for that?  And he was saying that in an area where more and more people are struggling to pay the rent.  I look at how much of my paycheck goes to taxes every month and the fact that rent on even a studio apartment takes half or more of that.....yeah, sure I'm all for paying for others' college education while not being able to keep a roof over my head.

Funny how rich people have no problem raising taxes and giving away other people's money, while taking advantage of every tax break out there to the point where millionaires end up paying less actual taxes than a school teacher.  And politicians know that promises of "free" stuff panders to today's entitlement mentality society.  And they know they don't even have to have a feasible plan on how to make the stuff free.

I have worked at two different universities - both public and private - and there are plenty of ways to pay for college even in this day and age.  Sure, you're going to have some loans to pay off (especially when you to go on to graduate school, etc) but why is that debt "unfair" but if I have to go into debt to survive because of excessive taxation - that's acceptable?

I know college students who struggle greatly.  Where I currently work, we have a food pantry to help students with food.  I think that's awesome.  But I know as many - if not more - students who take regular trips (spring break, anyone?), do Starbuck's at least once a day, eat out regularly, drive a nice car, shop til they drop....while I struggle to pay the rent.  But even more of my income should be taken from me to subsidize them?

My advice to anyone who wants a free ride in college - join the army.

 

 

[Jeanne]

12 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I always think for myself.  I agree with Romney that Cruz is marginally better than Trump, but that's not saying much.  

Because Trump will likely not come into the convention with a majority of delegates, and after the first ballot all delegates will be freed to vote for whomever they wish, the convention could in the end very well come up with Rubio as the nominee, as a compromise candidate.  Or for that matter, Romney again.  Matters are not at all settled.

I agree that anything can change..already the tactics they have used on eachother has had a big affect.  This is going to be an election so up in the air that anything goes.  Actually..it is quite scary..Hillary too.  Looking forward to the republican debate Tuesday.  If nothing else, it will be entertaining!

[Jeanne]

15 hours ago, Rain said:

Don't assume that people who vote the way the majority of the state is voting are not thinking for themselves. They just think differently than you do.  

Oh..this is true...mainly because I may be thinking the same way.  But what Utah does..it does in a big way!!

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

I agree that anything can change..already the tactics they have used on eachother has had a big affect.  This is going to be an election so up in the air that anything goes.  Actually..it is quite scary..Hillary too.  Looking forward to the republican debate Tuesday.  If nothing else, it will be entertaining!

Strangely, I've avoided watching these.  I am somewhat of a political junkie, and have run for public office twice myself, but this particular silly season has been too painful to watch.  My watching or lack thereof won't change anything, so at least I have that much comfort!

So, young baker, what would you be baking today?  And may I have a slice of it?

Edited March 26, 2016 by Stargazer

[Jeanne]

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Strangely, I've avoided watching these.  I am somewhat of a political junkie, and have run for public office twice myself, but this particular silly season has been too painful to watch.  My watching or lack thereof won't change anything, so at least I have that much comfort!

So, young baker, what would you be baking today?  And may I have a slice of it?

Bavarian Easter Eggs!  Lightly frosted in pastel frosting..a doughnut of course!

[Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Bavarian Easter Eggs!  Lightly frosted in pastel frosting..a doughnut of course!

Yumm! 

[Stargazer]

Thanks to all those who have posted here, for not dragging the discussion into a political abyss from which Ares or Chaos would have had to deliver us!

In connection with this topic, I thought I should post what Mitt Romney said about The Donald back on the 3rd of March.  Here's the link: Mitt Romney's remarks on Donald Trump and the 2016 race

I would have liked to quote the entire thing here, but it's too long.  Here's an excerpt, comprising the beginning and end of his remarks...

Quote

I am not here to announce my candidacy for office. I am not going to endorse a candidate today. Instead, I would like to offer my perspective on the nominating process of my party. In 1964, days before the presidential election which, incidentally, we lost, Ronald Reagan went on national television and challenged America saying that it was a "Time for Choosing." He saw two paths for America, one that embraced conservative principles dedicated to lifting people out of poverty and helping create opportunity for all, and the other, an oppressive government that would lead America down a darker, less free path. I'm no Ronald Reagan and this is a different moment but I believe with all my heart and soul that we face another time for choosing, one that will have profound consequences for the Republican Party and more importantly, for the country.

I say this in part because of my conviction that America is poised to lead the world for another century. Our technology engines, our innovation dynamic, and the ambition and skill of our people will propel our economy and raise our standard of living. America will remain as it is today, the envy of the world.

Warren Buffett was 100% right when he said last week that "the babies being born in America today are the luckiest crop in history."

That doesn't mean we don't have real problems and serious challenges. At home, poverty persists and wages are stagnant. The horrific massacres of Paris and San Bernardino, the nuclear ambitions of the Iranian mullahs, the aggressions of Putin, the growing assertiveness of China and the nuclear tests of North Korea confirm that we live in troubled and dangerous times.

But if we make the right choices, America's future will be even better than our past and better than our present.

On the other hand, if we make improvident choices, the bright horizon I foresee will never materialize. Let me put it plainly, if we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished.

<snip />

I understand the anger Americans feel today. In the past, our presidents have channeled that anger, and forged it into resolve, into endurance and high purpose, and into the will to defeat the enemies of freedom. Our anger was transformed into energy directed for good.

Mr. Trump is directing our anger for less than noble purposes. He creates scapegoats of Muslims and Mexican immigrants, he calls for the use of torture and for killing the innocent children and family members of terrorists. He cheers assaults on protesters. He applauds the prospect of twisting the Constitution to limit first amendment freedom of the press. This is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss.

Here's what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.
His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill.

America has greatness ahead. This is a time for choosing. God bless us to choose a nominee who will make that vision a reality.

 

 

[mnn727]

Never could figure out why Utah seems to vote for the Evangelical Christian candidate when Evangelical Christians for the most part are very vocal about Mormons not being Christian.

Edited March 27, 2016 by mnn727

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, mnn727 said:

Never could figure out why Utah seems to vote for the Evangelical Christian candidate when Evangelical Christians for the most part are very vocal about Mormons not being Christian.

 I tend to not trust those types of candidates; however, I hope that Utah votes for them because they feel they are the best qualified for the job regardless of how they might feel about the Church and its members.  

Generally, I find a high degree of discomfort when people wave their religion so vocally or obviously in front of me.  My conclusion is that if you need to tell me about your religion so much there is probably reason to be concerned about the individual.  Don't give me symbols or pictures of the candidate going to church; let me see what you will do and how it will affect the nation and our communities.  

[sunstoned]

On 3/26/2016 at 9:34 AM, rodheadlee said:

Yeah, free stuff for everybody. Who is going to pay for it? Middle America's back is already breaking under the load.

He says it will be paid for by big business and the rich.  Apparently both groups take advantage of major tax loop holes.  

[The Nehor]

On March 25, 2016 at 3:46 AM, sunstoned said:

From the numbers that turned out to hear him speak in SLC, I would say there are quite a few Utahans who support Bernie Sanders.

Good, I wish Sanders luck. Our system works best when we have a real political Left to poke and prod and fight with the Right. Part of the mess we are in is one party running to the center which lets the other run off the end of the world.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, sunstoned said:

He says it will be paid for by big business and the rich.  Apparently both groups take advantage of major tax loop holes.  

The wealth gap is growing. Historically that has never ended well. Last time we were this far out of whack was in the 1920s. I hope we can find a more mild corrective this time.

[thesometimesaint]

On 3/26/2016 at 11:07 AM, Raingirl said:

Well, for one thing, he is advocating free college educations for everybody. (He was just here in Portland saying that and other things).  Who is going to pay for that?  And he was saying that in an area where more and more people are struggling to pay the rent.  I look at how much of my paycheck goes to taxes every month and the fact that rent on even a studio apartment takes half or more of that.....yeah, sure I'm all for paying for others' college education while not being able to keep a roof over my head.

Funny how rich people have no problem raising taxes and giving away other people's money, while taking advantage of every tax break out there to the point where millionaires end up paying less actual taxes than a school teacher.  And politicians know that promises of "free" stuff panders to today's entitlement mentality society.  And they know they don't even have to have a feasible plan on how to make the stuff free.

I have worked at two different universities - both public and private - and there are plenty of ways to pay for college even in this day and age.  Sure, you're going to have some loans to pay off (especially when you to go on to graduate school, etc) but why is that debt "unfair" but if I have to go into debt to survive because of excessive taxation - that's acceptable?

I know college students who struggle greatly.  Where I currently work, we have a food pantry to help students with food.  I think that's awesome.  But I know as many - if not more - students who take regular trips (spring break, anyone?), do Starbuck's at least once a day, eat out regularly, drive a nice car, shop til they drop....while I struggle to pay the rent.  But even more of my income should be taken from me to subsidize them?

My advice to anyone who wants a free ride in college - join the army.

California had tuition free public university education until Ronald Reagan became Governor. Thomas Jefferson wanted tuition free public college for all. The economic benefits very much outweigh any loses that it makes economic sense. Tax money pays for it. Then when they graduate the increase in income results in more tax moneys to teach more people. If you are paying 50% of your income in rent you are overspending. No more than 1/3 of income should go to housing. Maybe you need a raise, and not blame your situation on college students.

I agree. We do need major shifts in our tax codes. IE; The top marginal income tax rate should be 91% like it was under Eisenhower.

I worked full time, used my GI Bill, accepted Grants, and went into debt. I did what had to be done. The trouble with it is that in some majors you can easily exceed $1,000,000 in debt by the time you finish. With interest they'll never get out of debt. Never buy a house, and never live that good old American Dream. The new reality is that you have to be asleep to believe it

Spring Breaks aren't for the students they are for the facility. I have yet to go to any Starbucks. Even the Cougar Eat was the rare treat. Back in the day we drove a 4 year old car that I had bought while in the US Military. We got real used to window shopping in a grocery store. I know how to live poor. So I paid for my kids first automobile and college education. They are more prosperous than I dreamt of being.

I have no problem with joining the military if you want to. But it is no way to get a "free ride".The GI Bill hardy covers tuition let alone books, and normal living expenses.

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by thesometimesaint

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

California had tuition free public university education until Ronald Reagan became Governor. Thomas Jefferson wanted tuition free public college for all. The economic benefits very much outweigh any loses that it makes economic sense. Tax money pays for it. Then when they graduate the increase in income results in more tax moneys to teach more people. If you are paying 50% of your income in rent you are overspending. No more than 1/3 of income should go to housing. Maybe you need a raise, and not blame your situation on college students.

I agree. We do need major shits in our tax codes. IE; The top marginal income tax rate should be 91% like it was under Eisenhower.

I worked full time, used my GI Bill, accepted Grants, and went into debt. I did what had to be done. The trouble with it is that in some majors you can easily exceed $1,000,000 in debt by the time you finish. With interest they'll never get out of debt. Never buy a house, and never live that good old American Dream. The new reality is that you have to be asleep to believe it

Spring Breaks aren't for the students they are for the facility. I have yet to go to any Starbucks. Even the Cougar Eat was the rare treat. Back in the day we drove a 4 year old car that I had bought while in the US Military. We got real used to window shopping in a grocery store. I know how to live poor. So I paid for my kids first automobile and college education. They are more prosperous than I dreamt of being.

I have no problem with joining the military if you want to. But it is no way to get a "free ride".The GI Bill hardy covers tuition let alone books, and normal living expenses.

 

I just love how clueless some people are.

I'm merely "overspending" because I am paying over half my income on rent? (By the way, it should be a  a quarter of one'so income, not 1/3).  I would love to spend less on rent but the reality is that there isn't anything cheaper. And my rent is actually one of the cheapest in the area. Just renting a room around here costs more than apartment rent elsewhere.  It's not people being stupid with their money, its the reality of out-of-control housing costs. There are far too many people in my situation and it's just going to get worse.

There is so much ignorance in your post that it's mind-boggling.  Spring breaks are for the facility? What does that even mean? Staff is working as hard as ever while the students are partying in Florida and Mexico. But according to you, we should tax people into homelessness so that paying for their own education doesn't get in the way of those poor little college students getting drunk on the beach. Those same college students who whined and wanted the university to provide them with free condoms. 

Life someone leaves college a million dollars in debt, they're an idiot, I don't care what or how many degrees they have.

"Tax money pays for it". LOL like there is some bottomless tax money pit of gold in which money just magically appears. A statement like that would make one think that you have no idea where that money comes from.

 

[longview]

6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I worked full time, used my GI Bill, accepted Grants, and went into debt. I did what had to be done. The trouble with it is that in some majors you can easily exceed $1,000,000 in debt by the time you finish. With interest they'll never get out of debt. Never buy a house, and never live that good old American Dream. The new reality is that you have to be asleep to believe it

This is exactly the problem.  Only you do NOT see the big picture.  The colleges and universities charge WAY too much because they get away it by playing games with Pel grants, miniscule scholarships, and massive intrusion/interference by government agencies.  Many professors get obscene salaries but only teach a few classes during the week.  Tuition costs have been outstripping the cost of living for the last several decades.

Anything that government touches, prices tend to go out of control OR goods and services become more scarce.  Words of wisdom from Milton Friedman:

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.

Inflation is taxation without legislation.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The Great Depression, like most other periods of severe unemployment, was produced by government mismanagement rather than by any inherent instability of the private economy.

So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.

The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit.

AND words of wisdom from Thomas Sowell:

Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good.

The black family survived centuries of slavery and generations of Jim Crow, but it has disintegrated in the wake of the liberals' expansion of the welfare state.

The big divide in this country is not between Democrats and Republicans, or women and men, but between talkers and doers.

The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.

Prices are important not because money is considered paramount but because prices are a fast and effective conveyor of information through a vast society in which fragmented knowledge must be coordinated.

The real goal should be reduced government spending, rather than balanced budgets achieved by ever rising tax rates to cover ever rising spending.

All too often when liberals cite statistics, they forget the statisticians' warning that correlation is not causation.

[thesometimesaint]

23 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

I just love how clueless some people are.

I'm merely "overspending" because I am paying over half my income on rent? (By the way, it should be a  a quarter of one'so income, not 1/3).  I would love to spend less on rent but the reality is that there isn't anything cheaper. And my rent is actually one of the cheapest in the area. Just renting a room around here costs more than apartment rent elsewhere.  It's not people being stupid with their money, its the reality of out-of-control housing costs. There are far too many people in my situation and it's just going to get worse.

There is so much ignorance in your post that it's mind-boggling.  Spring breaks are for the facility? What does that even mean? Staff is working as hard as ever while the students are partying in Florida and Mexico. But according to you, we should tax people into homelessness so that paying for their own education doesn't get in the way of those poor little college students getting drunk on the beach. Those same college students who whined and wanted the university to provide them with free condoms. 

Life someone leaves college a million dollars in debt, they're an idiot, I don't care what or how many degrees they have.

"Tax money pays for it". LOL like there is some bottomless tax money pit of gold in which money just magically appears. A statement like that would make one think that you have no idea where that money comes from.

!/3 of annual income is the measuring stick for mortgages.

SEE http://www.moneyunder30.com/percentage-income-mortgage-payments

Never said housing costs aren't out of control. Owner thought they would get rich by renting out or selling their property to the highest bidder. It is a Capitalistic system after all.

The simple fact is that during Spring Brake facility don't have to deal with students. My sister is the lead research chemist at an Ivy League school. It is much easier when students aren't there. Your ideas come more from the "Animal House" movie than actual life.

Some specialties debt after school.

See http://www.cbsnews.com/news/1-million-mistake-becoming-a-doctor/

When you were 6 years old who do you think paid for your schooling?