FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 LDS Christian friends, I hope this chart helps demonstrate the simplicity of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and His free offer of Eternal Life to anyone who will simply receive. We must all make a decision during mortality. Those who have eternal life are no longer under condemnation; they are born anew through His faith and through His worthiness and will be resurrected unto life. Those who do not chose to receive eternal life during mortality do not have the Son and are dead in their Sin. Their reward is the wrath of God and wages of worthy behavior and best efforts which is "filthy rags" in the sight of God. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" Titus 2:11 What will your decision be friends? Mark
Popular Post halconero Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 I'll be honest, I don't see this chart as really conflicting all that much with the Latter-day Saint paradigm. So I would largely agree. I'm grateful for experiencing the justifying grace of Christ and His sanctifying power on a daily basis. 5
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 1 minute ago, halconero said: I'll be honest, I don't see this chart as really conflicting all that much with the Latter-day Saint paradigm. So I would largely agree. I'm grateful for experiencing the justifying grace of Christ and His sanctifying power on a daily basis. Has the LDS "Jesus Christ" ever given anyone "Eternal Life"? Think you'll plainly see what is depicted here is the complete opposite of "the Latter-day Saint paradigm".
Popular Post stemelbow Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: LDS Christian friends, I hope this chart helps demonstrate the simplicity of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and His free offer of Eternal Life to anyone who will simply receive. We must all make a decision during mortality. Those who have eternal life are no longer under condemnation; they are born anew through His faith and through His worthiness and will be resurrected unto life. Those who do not chose to receive eternal life during mortality do not have the Son and are dead in their Sin. Their reward is the wrath of God and wages of worthy behavior and best efforts which is "filthy rags" in the sight of God. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" Titus 2:11 What will your decision be friends? Mark That was disappointing. You advertised the biblical view then quoted one passage that explains nothing, but then add a chart that is somehow all encompassing. Nothing? 7
Popular Post CA Steve Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 Hi Mark, Don't you find it troublesome to believe in a God who condemns His own children to eternal damnation for eternity based on a decision made in a span of 70 years±? It would be like telling my 30 year old daughter she can never inherit anything from me or associate with me since she decided at the age of two to throw a temper tantrum. 8
halconero Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: Has the LDS "Jesus Christ" ever given anyone "Eternal Life"? Think you'll plainly see what is depicted here is the complete opposite of "the Latter-day Saint paradigm". To answer your question, me. Nah. Looks pretty okay. 3
Popular Post Gray Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: Has the LDS "Jesus Christ" ever given anyone "Eternal Life"? Think you'll plainly see what is depicted here is the complete opposite of "the Latter-day Saint paradigm". No religious denomination has yet been able to deliver on the promise of eternal life in any demonstrable way, so it's probably unwise for any particular denomination to get too cocky about it. 5
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, CA Steve said: Hi Mark, Don't you find it troublesome to believe in a God who condemns His own children to eternal damnation for eternity based on a decision made in a span of 70 years±? It would be like telling my 30 year old daughter she can never inherit anything from me or associate with me since she decided at the age of two to throw a temper tantrum. Hey, good observation, but keep in mind those who do not have eternal life are not His children because they have never been "born again" into His family. In John chapter 8, Jesus told the unsaved "Ye are of your father the Devil". Again, Jesus said unto the rejected of the Saviour in Matthew chapter 8 "I never knew you". How could they be His children if he "never knew" them?
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 Seems like both groups have eternal life. One lives eternally with God. One lives eternally in the lake of fire. And hey look, it's based on works. 5
CA Steve Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Hey, good observation, but keep in mind those who do not have eternal life are not His children because they have never been "born again" into His family. In John chapter 8, Jesus told the unsaved "Ye are of your father the Devil". Again, Jesus said unto the rejected of the Saviour in Matthew chapter 8 "I never knew you". How could they be His children if he "never knew" them? You don't see the problem with defining His children as those that accept Him? Are you telling me that the Devil is the creator of all those other people? You are conflating following someone as the same thing as being created by someone. It's not. My daughter will always be my daughter regardless of how she treats me. And even if what you say is true, are you not troubled following a God who condemns those other sentient feeling beings to an eternity of damnation based on a decision made in the blink of an eye that is our life span?
The Nehor Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: LDS Christian friends, I hope this chart helps demonstrate the simplicity of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and His free offer of Eternal Life to anyone who will simply receive. We must all make a decision during mortality. Those who have eternal life are no longer under condemnation; they are born anew through His faith and through His worthiness and will be resurrected unto life. Those who do not chose to receive eternal life during mortality do not have the Son and are dead in their Sin. Their reward is the wrath of God and wages of worthy behavior and best efforts which is "filthy rags" in the sight of God. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" Titus 2:11 What will your decision be friends? Mark So is the Lake of Fire like a really hot hot tube where it feels really painful at first but then you get used to it? 1
bluebell Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Hey, good observation, but keep in mind those who do not have eternal life are not His children because they have never been "born again" into His family. In John chapter 8, Jesus told the unsaved "Ye are of your father the Devil". Again, Jesus said unto the rejected of the Saviour in Matthew chapter 8 "I never knew you". How could they be His children if he "never knew" them? Doesn't Paul call all people, whether believer or not, children of God in Acts 17? 2
bluebell Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: LDS Christian friends, I hope this chart helps demonstrate the simplicity of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and His free offer of Eternal Life to anyone who will simply receive. We must all make a decision during mortality. Those who have eternal life are no longer under condemnation; they are born anew through His faith and through His worthiness and will be resurrected unto life. Those who do not chose to receive eternal life during mortality do not have the Son and are dead in their Sin. Their reward is the wrath of God and wages of worthy behavior and best efforts which is "filthy rags" in the sight of God. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" Titus 2:11 What will your decision be friends? Mark Why doesn't the chart explain how someone receives eternal life? 2
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, halconero said: To answer your question, me. Nah. Looks pretty okay. I'm not going to tell you what you personally believe, but if you are saying the chart above is properly aligned with LDS theology then keep attending Gospel Principles class and you'll soon make it to that chapter.
thesometimesaint Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 Like all over-simplifications it tells some truths, but leave important ones out. 2
cinepro Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 42 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Hey, good observation, but keep in mind those who do not have eternal life are not His children because they have never been "born again" into His family. In John chapter 8, Jesus told the unsaved "Ye are of your father the Devil". Again, Jesus said unto the rejected of the Saviour in Matthew chapter 8 "I never knew you". How could they be His children if he "never knew" them? Just to be clear, what happens to everyone who is born but never have the chance to read the Bible or learn about Jesus? 3
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, cinepro said: Just to be clear, what happens to everyone who is born but never have the chance to read the Bible or learn about Jesus? You know the answer to that... God LOVES keeping his creations from knowing about the atonement just so he can watch them suffer eternal hellfire. Same reason he takes little babies before their baptism so they can hang out in limbo. In some cases I hear he even decides ahead of time which of his creations to save and which were just created for firewood. He's very loving that way. He must have been very bored that week. Doesn't sectarianism just fill you with joy! 5
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 34 minutes ago, bluebell said: Why doesn't the chart explain how someone receives eternal life? Excellent suggestion Bluebell. Here is an updated chart outlining all of the detailed requirements for receiving eternal life.
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, cinepro said: Just to be clear, what happens to everyone who is born but never have the chance to read the Bible or learn about Jesus? Thought I covered that? If "the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men", wouldn't that mean that at some point during mortal existence, all mankind will be presented with the choice to believe? The heavens even declare the glory of God (Ps 19:1).
bluebell Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Excellent suggestion Bluebell. Here is an updated chart outlining all of the detailed requirements for receiving eternal life. That verse doesn't really help explain much though. Why don't devils receive eternal life, for example? They believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Edit to add: Mormons "believeth on" Jesus Christ, so based on that scripture, why don't you believe that Mormons are saved? Edited February 12, 2016 by bluebell 3
JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Thought I covered that? If "the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men", wouldn't that mean that at some point during mortal existence, all mankind will be presented with the choice to believe? During mortal existence of the earth? Or during THEIR personal mortal existence? Because there are MANY that die with no knowledge of Christ. 2
FormerLDS Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: That verse doesn't really help explain much though. Why don't devils receive eternal life, for example? They believe that Jesus is the Son of God. The Bible says in Romans 5:8 " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." There was no sacrifice made for fallen angels, only for us.
bluebell Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: The Bible says in Romans 5:8 " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." There was no sacrifice made for fallen angels, only for us. See the edited part of my post for further clarification.
mfbukowski Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, CA Steve said: Hi Mark, Don't you find it troublesome to believe in a God who condemns His own children to eternal damnation for eternity based on a decision made in a span of 70 years±? It would be like telling my 30 year old daughter she can never inherit anything from me or associate with me since she decided at the age of two to throw a temper tantrum. Not to mention the billions already burning in hell because they were born in a culture that did not know of Christ. Ridiculous. What kind of God is that? 3
RevTestament Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: Hey, good observation, but keep in mind those who do not have eternal life are not His children because they have never been "born again" into His family. In John chapter 8, Jesus told the unsaved "Ye are of your father the Devil". Again, Jesus said unto the rejected of the Saviour in Matthew chapter 8 "I never knew you". How could they be His children if he "never knew" them? I see. So God sends 1 day old babies He forms (never mind the fact that all things were supposed to be created at the beginning), and which suffer an untimely death to the gulag because they didn't have time to be "born again." According to your nice, simple model, all those who go to hell, are to be sent directly to the Lake of Fire - then what is the point of judgment? Do they get worse eternal fire if they are "badder?" Is there a nice level of eternal fire and an not-so-nice level of eternal fire? Same question for those who receive eternal life. Except your model does not mention paradise. If Jesus promised the other crucified thief He would be with Him in Paradise that day, and there had been no resurrection, and Jesus later told Mary He had not yet ascended to the Father, where was He during the interim? In your model those who die in eternal life don't have to wait to be resurrected? I don't think that is too biblical. The Bible says the just and the unjust await their resurrection. Acts 24:15 How about those who bring forth fruit - some 30 fold, some 60 fold and some 100 fold? They all get the same reward "according to their works?" Methinks you need to go back to the drawing board. Edited February 12, 2016 by RevTestament 1
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