TheSkepticChristian Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Elder Gordon B Hinckley said, "I am happy that my faith has not been shaken by the writings of critics who never seem to recognize that knowledge of things divine comes by the power of the Spirit and not of the wisdom of men." Are rational arguments that maintain a climate in which belief may flourish necessary? What is more important A) Defend the church with the Mormon's Codex? B) Home teaching? Link to comment
Calm Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Both from what I have seen. Home teaching when it is needed and help with criticisms to keep the door open for faith when it is needed. Many are worn down when they don't have answers and may end up not fighting to stay connected to their faith if they don't have support. Though geographical location of the Book of Mormon is generally way down on the list of questions most of those who need support have. Edited February 5, 2016 by Calm 2 Link to comment
volgadon Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Elder Gordon B Hinckley said, "I am happy that my faith has not been shaken by the writings of critics who never seem to recognize that knowledge of things divine comes by the power of the Spirit and not of the wisdom of men." Are rational arguments that maintain a climate in which belief may flourish necessary? What is more important A) Defend the church with the Mormon's Codex? B) Home teaching? Should one neglect home teaching in favour of conducting apologetics? Of course not. 3 Link to comment
TheSkepticChristian Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 11 hours ago, Calm said: Both from what I have seen. Home teaching when it is needed and help with criticisms to keep the door open for faith when it is needed. Many are worn down when they don't have answers and may end up not fighting to stay connected to their faith if they don't have support. Though geographical location of the Book of Mormon is generally way down on the list of questions most of those who need support have. but why is the Holy Ghost enough for most active LDS, but not enough for some? Link to comment
volgadon Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but why is the Holy Ghost enough for most active LDS, but not enough for some? Oh, come off it. This isn't a good faith argument. 2 Link to comment
halconero Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 That's a nice false dichotomy you've got there. 2 Link to comment
Calm Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but why is the Holy Ghost enough for most active LDS, but not enough for some? You tell me since you are the one seeing it that way. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Because even having a sign saying Nephi slept here at a Bed and Breakfast isn't enough to convert. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post juliann Posted February 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2016 14 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: What is more important A) Defend the church with the Mormon's Codex? B) Home teaching? I've got one! A) Going to church B) Home teaching 6 Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 20 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Elder Gordon B Hinckley said, "I am happy that my faith has not been shaken by the writings of critics who never seem to recognize that knowledge of things divine comes by the power of the Spirit and not of the wisdom of men." Are rational arguments that maintain a climate in which belief may flourish necessary? What is more important A) Defend the church with the Mormon's Codex? B) Home teaching? Usually mainstream christian apologists cite I Peter 3:15-16, " be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation [JST conduct] in Christ." Of course the ultimate apologia is the entire NT itself, every book and epistle being an explanation and defense of Jesus and of Christianity -- the key components of a missionary religion. It is a fundamental part of our witness by the power of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, the Brethren have repeatedly urged us to defend the LDS faith in social media and on the internet. 2 Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Is scholarly apologetics neccesary? Hard to say whether apologetics needs to be scholarly, and most LDS missionaries are not scholars, so it is not necessary. The only necessary element of apologetics is the Holy Sprit, though one does hope that those claiming such inspiration would at least read Scripture from time to time. 2 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 9 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but why is the Holy Ghost enough for most active LDS, but not enough for some? Who isn't the Holy Ghost enough for? Link to comment
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Which is more important? 1) Studying your scriptures 2) Praying While we are at it, who would win in a fight? Joseph F. Smith or George Albert Smith? I like these games that don't have an actual answer and where the reality is that both are an important part of our faith that cannot be separated. .;-) 2 Link to comment
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Also, I think George Albert Smith would win. Just sayin. 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Matthew J. Tandy said: Which is more important? 1) Studying your scriptures 2) Praying While we are at it, who would win in a fight? Joseph F. Smith or George Albert Smith? I like these games that don't have an actual answer and where the reality is that both are an important part of our faith that cannot be separated. .;-) What type of fight are we talking about here? Link to comment
filovirus Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, Matthew J. Tandy said: While we are at it, who would win in a fight? Joseph F. Smith or George Albert Smith? I like these games that don't have an actual answer and where the reality is that both are an important part of our faith that cannot be separated. .;-) In their prime or while prophet? Link to comment
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Just now, Avatar4321 said: What type of fight are we talking about here? Well.. I am open to both a formal debate as well as fisticuffs. And I think George would win in both cases. Joseph F. Smith certainly wrote a lot, but speculated much. George I think kept it simpler and knew what he knew and focused on that. On a fight, George did suffer from Lupus later in life, but early on was pretty fit and surveyed railroads. He was also a pretty awesome Boy Scout. Joseph Fielding Smith though had some military service and a rougher earlier life. You might think that would favor him, but George just had a certain tenacity that always appealed to me. I think he would have taken a hit and keep on ticking. 1 Link to comment
Guest Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 21 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Elder Gordon B Hinckley said, "I am happy that my faith has not been shaken by the writings of critics who never seem to recognize that knowledge of things divine comes by the power of the Spirit and not of the wisdom of men." Are rational arguments that maintain a climate in which belief may flourish necessary? What is more important A) Defend the church with the Mormon's Codex? B) Home teaching? Both are needed, we need strong Ecclesiastical leaders who have their hearts and minds fixed always on the Spiritual, or at least most of the time. Men who live a measure of faith that allows the word of God to flow from them like a fountain everlasting. We also need those in the Apologetic and Accademic world working with translations, ancient languages and archeology. But we must remember that we are a faith, a relgion, that must be faith base first. Because it is by faith that we are justified. Link to comment
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 1 minute ago, filovirus said: In their prime or while prophet? Definitely in their prime. As prophet... hmm... hard to say. George suffered a lot in later prophet years and had some medications that would have likely impaired him. Don't know enough of Joseph Fielding Smith when older. This is way more interesting that Thor vs. Zeus. Link to comment
Ahab Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 RE the thread title... Necessary for what? A scholarly approach, and scholarship in general, involves trying to learn something by doing some research/ digging/ probing/ asking of questions to arrive at an understanding/ answer to those questions\ inquiries/ curiosities. It's all about the search for knowledge, with some reasonable conclusions made along the way until the inquirer/ investigator/researcher/ person asking the question feels satisfied that they have learned enough or at least something about whatever they want to know. And a scholarly approach to finding information can include asking God for answers, too, rather than limiting ourselves to trying to get information from other people besides him. Link to comment
juliann Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Matthew J. Tandy said: While we are at it, who would win in a fight? Joseph F. Smith or George Albert Smith? I like these games that don't have an actual answer and where the reality is that both are an important part of our faith that cannot be separated. .;-) Eliza R. Snow could take both of them. At once. 1 Link to comment
Russell C McGregor Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Dan Peterson is fond of the following statement by C. S. Lewis: "Though argument does not create conviction, the lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish." 3 Link to comment
Teancum Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: Usually mainstream christian apologists cite I Peter 3:15-16, " be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation [JST conduct] in Christ." Of course the ultimate apologia is the entire NT itself, every book and epistle being an explanation and defense of Jesus and of Christianity -- the key components of a missionary religion. It is a fundamental part of our witness by the power of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, the Brethren have repeatedly urged us to defend the LDS faith in social media and on the internet. Are you sure the leaders urge defense or rather to share positive messages about the church on social media and the Internet. Can you show me where they repeatedly burger us to defend the church in social media and the Internet. i can hardly think they would appreciate much of the so called defense that we see on this board. 1 Link to comment
Russell C McGregor Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 43 minutes ago, juliann said: Eliza R. Snow could take both of them. At once. You're probably right. And she wouldn't even need a set of one-sided rules to muzzle them with, either. Link to comment
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 13 hours ago, juliann said: Eliza R. Snow could take both of them. At once. Well... right. I thought we were going on pure speculation challenges. Eliza is just a given. She'll always win... And then she'll write a song about it. 3 Link to comment
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