Why Pray "thy Will Be Done?"

[Stargazer]

I'm glad you found the keys but ... I'm curious why this need would be fulfilled in a miraculous way while other less miraculous needs are ignored. It's hard to accept that the spirit physically placed keys in the middle of the bed. Spirits don't even have physical hands. Did it go all Patrick Swayzee on those keys

How dare you make light of one of my favorite films! How dare you!

Uh, I think the Spirit can do whatever it likes. And I don't think it needs hands to do it with. But the Spirit could very well have sent Moroni to do the job. Moroni clearly doesn't need to regard a locked door.

You're missing the point. My wife would have found it sufficient if the Spirit had simply put it into her mind where the keys had gotten off to. She wanted nothing more, and in fact made that part of the request: "Help me find the keys." The Spirit could have done exactly that, and made it look like it had independently occurred to her where the keys were. I've thought about this, why such an obvious act, and I've come to the conclusion that we were being taught something important with respect to prayer and faith. It was utterly unmistakeable what had happened.

Have you ever run across the doctrine taught in Alma 32? I am sure you have. The Lord rewards hope with belief, belief with faith, and eventually, faith with knowledge. Line upon line and precept upon precept. You take one step into the darkness (or, the unknown), and your little act of faith is rewarded with a larger dose of faith.

The fact is simply this: faith is a gift of God. It isn't something that you can manufacture. But when you are given a little, the Lord's hope is that you will use that little faith to gain more.

You seem to be under the impression that putting her keys where they would be found is somehow far too much of a miracle in comparison to the problem space. Could it not be that the Lord was teaching her something she needed to know? Namely that the Lord is real and is watching over her, even in small things. As of this writing she now stands close to the door we call death. She may pass its threshold in a month or so; I can't say. But I can tell you that she is unafraid of her oncoming fate; I fancy that she is even looking forward to it (helped out by the pain and discomfort the process is causing her). Her long experience with the Spirit, including that incident with the keys, has taught her that God is real, and that He loves her. And that, my friend, is worth much, and is certainly worth the meager expenditure of effort it took the Spirit to put her keys in her way in that manner.

[Stargazer]

We lose and find things all the time without divine intervention. I don't know the comings and goings of the household to know whether or not it is possible that a small child may have hid them and then placed them on the bed. Or maybe they were folded up in the blankets so when the bed was made they were there. Don't know, don't really care.

 

I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around the concept that God would intervene in our lives to physically place keys on a bed when duplicates of those keys could have been made at walmart for $5. Simultaneously God is not intervening in ways that have major impact in the lives of millions of people. I just don't understand that. It seems to be the definition of capreciousness. A capricious God would be hard to love.

The keys included house keys to my wife's housecleaning customers' homes, and it would have been extremely inconvenient to go about getting duplicates. But put that aside for the moment.

You have not the slightest idea of whether God is or is not intervening in ways that have a major impact in the lives of millions of people. What are you expecting anyway? Angels popping in to make big shows of how God is intervening in peoples lives? Angels in the outfield, as it were?

Do you think my momentarily being given the ability to see a tent rope in the dark, and my wife's finding of her keys are all somehow unworthy because there are many other problems that aren't getting God's attention? God has to be concerned with the Great Issues and He shouldn't be wasting His precious time and effort on little minor things that HappyJackWagon disregards? I get the impression that you've never seen a miracle in your life.

I once gave a blessing to my 2-year-old son. He had a terrible ear infection, and we couldn't take him to the doctor at the time. So I gave him a blessing. I blessed him to have his pain go away. He had been crying for hours, but as soon as I finished the blessing he stopped, and quickly fell asleep. Next morning we took him to the doctor, and when we brought him in, the Doc was a bit nonplussed about why we had him there, since Nathan was showing absolutely no stress whatsoever, and looked as happy as a clam. Until he looked in his ears, whereupon he remarked that Nathan should have been crying and even screaming because he seldom ever saw such inflamed ears. Well, we got the antibiotics for the infection and all was well.

Based on your reaction thus far, I can predict your reaction to this true story. You think that my words caused a psychosomatic effect that stopped the pain (hypnosis of some kind). The kid was so tired he couldn't feel any more pain. The doctor was a quack. And even if God stopped the pain, well, darnit, why would He concern Himself with such a small affair when He hasn't bought you a Mercedes Benz?

Relax, I know you weren't really thinking about a Mercedes Benz, I was just throwing a little light banter into the mix. You know Janis Joplin's old song, right?

 

The LDS Church is based on miracles. left, right and up the middle.  Angels and heavenly messengers popping in and out for decades, delivering this message, and that box of plates, and testifying about this or that.  But that's old hat, now, right?  We can't expect that kind of thing to keep going on!  After all, what would the neighbors think?  And so we forget about all the little miracles happening in our lives and the lives of others, and it's so very sad.  New Order Mormons.  No Miracle Mormons.  Implacably Closed Heavens Mormons.  We Want God to Worry About the Great Problems, not some little kid's ear infection or Stargazer's wife's key ring, for crying out loud, that's ridiculous.  Progressive Mormons who are annoyed that God answers the prayers of well-off White Guys but not those of other people (but how would the PM know this?).

 

These are the people who, when President Uchtdorf talks about how we're living beneath our privileges, go away with great puzzlement written all over their faces, wondering what that has to do with their ability to buy a membership in that upscale country club.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

Then what's the point of asking for blessings in prayers or giving a priesthood blessing. If Gods will is going to be done regardless then what the point of asking or blessing?

 

You're new at this, aren't you?  I didn't need to give my little son the blessing that killed his ear infection pain, and if I hadn't done so he would have suffered all night long.  Was it God's will for him to suffer, or God's will to take it away?  I acted, and it was taken away.  If I hadn't, it wouldn't have been. 

 

We're here for a purpose, and the purpose isn't just to avoid all kinds of suffering.  It's to learn faith, compassion, love, and become like Christ.  If we're here for no reason then why bother sending us?

[Kenngo1969]

... And if nothing else I believe our Father in Heaven enjoys hearing from us.

I'm sure I've heard that concept before, but I've never heard it put quite that way.  "Hey, Dad, it's Ken ..."  Love it!

[Mars]

i once heard a great comment in sunday school - that because it takes faith to literally see God, it also takes faith to "see" God in every day miracles

 

the believer sees God as interacting with us.  children who are healed, jobs that are found, wayward children who come home, etc...  all those things we pray for - and even some of the more trivial ones like innocuous situation where keys are lost - all are ascribed to God.  the faithful "see" God.  (and i'm talking full of faith faithful here and not trustworthy or fidelius faithful)

 

the critics see coincidence or normal life's ups and downs.  the child was probably going to get better anyway.  the job was eventually going to be found anyway.  the other person's change of heart was of their own accord and not influenced by Deity.

 

i tried to address this but it seems kinda ignored...  but i'll try again:  i think it's fair critique to say "why does God help you find your keys but not intervene when the battered wife prayed for help before her abusive husband murdered her?"  those are understandable questions.  i think they have answers, and can be satisfactorily resolved, but i understand how that's a show stopper for others.

[HappyJackWagon]

The keys included house keys to my wife's housecleaning customers' homes, and it would have been extremely inconvenient to go about getting duplicates. But put that aside for the moment.

You have not the slightest idea of whether God is or is not intervening in ways that have a major impact in the lives of millions of people. What are you expecting anyway? Angels popping in to make big shows of how God is intervening in peoples lives? Angels in the outfield, as it were?

Do you think my momentarily being given the ability to see a tent rope in the dark, and my wife's finding of her keys are all somehow unworthy because there are many other problems that aren't getting God's attention? God has to be concerned with the Great Issues and He shouldn't be wasting His precious time and effort on little minor things that HappyJackWagon disregards? I get the impression that you've never seen a miracle in your life.

I once gave a blessing to my 2-year-old son. He had a terrible ear infection, and we couldn't take him to the doctor at the time. So I gave him a blessing. I blessed him to have his pain go away. He had been crying for hours, but as soon as I finished the blessing he stopped, and quickly fell asleep. Next morning we took him to the doctor, and when we brought him in, the Doc was a bit nonplussed about why we had him there, since Nathan was showing absolutely no stress whatsoever, and looked as happy as a clam. Until he looked in his ears, whereupon he remarked that Nathan should have been crying and even screaming because he seldom ever saw such inflamed ears. Well, we got the antibiotics for the infection and all was well.

Based on your reaction thus far, I can predict your reaction to this true story. You think that my words caused a psychosomatic effect that stopped the pain (hypnosis of some kind). The kid was so tired he couldn't feel any more pain. The doctor was a quack. And even if God stopped the pain, well, darnit, why would He concern Himself with such a small affair when He hasn't bought you a Mercedes Benz?

Relax, I know you weren't really thinking about a Mercedes Benz, I was just throwing a little light banter into the mix. You know Janis Joplin's old song, right?

 

The LDS Church is based on miracles. left, right and up the middle.  Angels and heavenly messengers popping in and out for decades, delivering this message, and that box of plates, and testifying about this or that.  But that's old hat, now, right?  We can't expect that kind of thing to keep going on!  After all, what would the neighbors think?  And so we forget about all the little miracles happening in our lives and the lives of others, and it's so very sad.  New Order Mormons.  No Miracle Mormons.  Implacably Closed Heavens Mormons.  We Want God to Worry About the Great Problems, not some little kid's ear infection or Stargazer's wife's key ring, for crying out loud, that's ridiculous.  Progressive Mormons who are annoyed that God answers the prayers of well-off White Guys but not those of other people (but how would the PM know this?).

 

These are the people who, when President Uchtdorf talks about how we're living beneath our privileges, go away with great puzzlement written all over their faces, wondering what that has to do with their ability to buy a membership in that upscale country club.

What are your thoughts about what I call the capriciousness of God if he meets these relatively small needs for you but doesn't answer prayers that may be huge life changers for others? Do you see any disparity or would your view be that I simply don't notice the miracles and answers to prayers happening in my life?

 

I appreciate your stories and the faith it provides you but you're right, I don't have those experiences despite a lifetime of faithful service, attendance, prayer, etc. And others have far greater challenges than I have without having faith affirming miracles or any apparant answers of any kind.

 

Imagine if we were brothers. We grew up in the same household with the same parents. When you have need for lunch money you ask your parents and they give you lunch money. When I ask, I get silence. Or when we both ask dad if we can go play at a friend's house he answers you but doesn't acknowledge me at all. Silly example. But that's how it feels. He seems totally inconsistent in his responses to his children's prayers.

[Avatar4321]

ask in faith and you will receive

[cinepro]

You're new at this, aren't you?  I didn't need to give my little son the blessing that killed his ear infection pain, and if I hadn't done so he would have suffered all night long.  Was it God's will for him to suffer, or God's will to take it away?  I acted, and it was taken away.  If I hadn't, it wouldn't have been. 

 

 

Interesting.  How do you know the pain wouldn't have subsided without the blessing? 

[cinepro]

 

the believer sees God as interacting with us.  children who are healed, jobs that are found, wayward children who come home, etc...  all those things we pray for - and even some of the more trivial ones like innocuous situation where keys are lost - all are ascribed to God.  the faithful "see" God.  (and i'm talking full of faith faithful here and not trustworthy or fidelius faithful)

 

In order to answer the question, you would first need to eliminate this effect. 

[Kenngo1969]

1 Corinthians 2:11

 

 

 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.  

 

 

 

 

 

Isaiah 55:8-9

 

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

 

 

I realize the implications of all of these answers can be quite complicated to the mortal mind, but the answers themselves are relatively simple:

 

 

• Is God perfectly benevolent?
• Is He perfectly fair and just?
• Is He omniscient?
• Is He omnipotent?
• Does He love us?
• Is our trust in Him independent of what happens to us, even though we might not understand everything that happens to us?

 

 

 

If the answers to these questions are "Yes," then I submit that this goes a long way to answering the sorts of questions and dilemmas posed in this thread.  If He is perfectly benevolent, fair, just, omnipotent, and omniscient; if He loves us; and if our trust in Him is independent of what happens to us, then there must be reasons why He intervenes in some circumstances, but apparently not in others, even if we do not understand those reasons.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Mars]

In order to answer the question, you would first need to eliminate this effect. 

 

frankly, having to decide whether or not the first such experience came from God is more of a concern than the subsequent incidences.

 

i don't have a control group life or brain on the side.  i only get the one chance, in real time, and reflection afterwards and expectations going forward.

 

so yeah...  confirmation bias is another way of saying "did it really happen?  or was it just in my head?"

[Vanguard]

Here's another one for you. Especially in light of some people mocking prayers when attempting to find lost keys.

My wife mislaid her keyring. It had house keys, car keys and even other people's house keys (she cleaned houses on the side for a little business). After a few days she couldn't find them and finally made the keys a specific point in our morning prayers. We both left to go to work, with her taking a spare set of house keys so she could get in later (she came home before me). When she came home from work and went to the bedroom there were her set of keys laying in the exact center of the bed, on the bedspread.

Now, she had made the bed that morning, and she darned well didn't put her own keys on the bed for her to "discover" later. The room was locked. Nobody else other than me had a key. And I didn't find them and put them there, either.

So what is it? The keys had a will of their own and teleported to the bed? Either my wife or I suffer from multiple personalities, and one of our tricksy selves did it just for fun? Please insert your alternative explanation here:

Personally, I am pretty darned certain that the Spirit put the keys on the bed. There is no other rational explanation.

 

You seem to miss my point entirely. I have not argued that the events of your wife's keys or any other miraculous event as you characterize it was anything but that. I am making the case that blessings are rolling out on a continual basis despite whether you recognize them as such and despite whether you are "worthy" to receive them. That you happened to pray beforehand in an effort to uncover the keys simply affirms the belief for you that the Lord does indeed bless you in countless ways. This belief will serve you well. Had you not recognized the Lord blesses you in this way and therefore did not pray, you may well have concluded other things that had nothing to do with divine intervention - other ways that would not help you nearly as much as attributing these fortunate circumstances to his efforts.

[Calm]

Vanguard, do you believe the keys would have been on the bed no matter what anyone did or did not do?

[Stargazer]

Interesting.  How do you know the pain wouldn't have subsided without the blessing? 

 

It would have eventually subsided, yes, after the medication had eradicated the infection, or after the body finally fought the infection off.  But he would still have been in a great pain until it did so subside.  It might even have subsided after the infection destroyed his ear.

 

But I saw the effect immediately.  It wasn't gradual at all.

 

You see, this is why people who receive miracles (sizable or small) keep them close.  There is always someone who wasn't there who just cannot let the miracle BE a miracle.  I am sure that if I were to tell you that I raised someone from the dead, you'd most likely say something like "How do you know they wouldn't have just woke up on their own?"  I'm sure that every single one of Jesus's miracles get the same treatment.

 

Thomas is always with us, isn't he?

[Vanguard]

Vanguard, do you believe the keys would have been on the bed no matter what anyone did or did not do?

 

Yes, I do. Or at least I think this is my position, my bravado notwithstanding. I think it's worth exploring. What say you? 

[SmileyMcGee]

You're new at this, aren't you?  I didn't need to give my little son the blessing that killed his ear infection pain, and if I hadn't done so he would have suffered all night long.  Was it God's will for him to suffer, or God's will to take it away?  I acted, and it was taken away.  If I hadn't, it wouldn't have been. 

 

We're here for a purpose, and the purpose isn't just to avoid all kinds of suffering.  It's to learn faith, compassion, love, and become like Christ.  If we're here for no reason then why bother sending us?

You're preaching a different doctrine than Ken. His comment implied that God's will is done regardless of human action -- a proactive God. You preach a God that won't help his own child unless another child asks...that's great parenting. 

[Kenngo1969]

You're preaching a different doctrine than Ken. His comment implied that God's will is done regardless of human action -- a proactive God. You preach a God that won't help his own child unless another child asks...that's great parenting. 

 

I think you misunderstand my position if that's what you've concluded.  Yes, I believe Doctrine and Covenants 130:21:

 

 

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

For example, I believe there are blessings that accrue from obeying the law of chastity: I'm not going to get a sexually-transmitted infection if I don't engage in behavior that puts me at risk for doing so; I'm going to avoid the potentially-deleterious effects (and, conversely, am more likely to enjoy good health) if I don't drink, smoke, use illicit substances, or use licit substances in ways in which they are not prescribed.  That's the law of the harvest.  I'll reap what I sow: if I obey the Word of Wisdom, I lessen the chances of incurring consequences that will negatively impact my physical and spiritual health.

 

I also believe the scripture that says, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7 KJV).  However, while I am far from perfect, and while there is a multitude of things I need to work on in order to improve my standing before God, I'm neither any better nor any worse than the average Latter-day Saint.  Yet, from a certain perspective, it could be argued that I haven't received at least some of the blessings that one might think should accrue from that level of faithfulness.  What to do?  I could conclude that such a state of affairs means that I'm not right before God or that He doesn't love me, but I don't think that's it: I can't explain why certain blessings I have earnestly sought have been withheld from me except to say that I don't know exactly what His plan is for me, a la Isaiah 55:8-9.

 

Matthew 7:7 notwithstanding, we may pray for a certain obstacle or a certain burden to be removed, but what God does instead is open a different path around the obstacle or increase our strength to bear that particular burden.  And while I may be "perplexed, but [hopefully] not in despair," about why certain blessings apparently been delayed or withheld (or may even be denied me in this life), on the other hand, I have received clear, unmistakable witnesses of God's love for me at key points in my life.  I've written before on the board of having undergone four surgical operations in a span of about 27 months: the first two each were followed by six weeks with my lower body completely immobilized in plaster, after which, when I was cut out of the cast, x-rays were taken, and I was informed that neither of the procedures was successful and that the conventional medical wisdom of the time was to try, yet again, a procedure which was similar to the first two.  We got at least 3-4 different opinions, all of which said that same thing.

 

Instead, my parents found a surgeon who was willing to buck the weight of competent medical opinion, to try a different procedure, and to opt for a postoperative course that could (but not necessarily would) not result in my being put into a body cast, but, rather, being allowed to recuperate in a wheelchair.  My parents were much more cautious than I was: my optimism was much more unbridled; given everything I'd gone through to that point, perhaps a reasonable, sensible person would conclude that my optimism was, naive ... pie-in-the-sky.  I cannot explain why I felt such optimism, why I felt that I wouldn't be put into a cast after either of the two operations he performed on me within a span of about three weeks' time ... why, when I took the matter to the Lord, including praying fervently on both occasions as I lay on an operating table waiting for the doctor and his team to "do their thing" ... I felt such a sense of unbridled optimism and peace.  I only know that I did, and the results were consistent with that sense of optimism.  They were followed sixteen months later by another successful operation: I had misgivings about undergoing this one because, unlike the ones he'd performed previously, this particular surgeon told me I would definitely be put into a cast postoperatively ... (I thought, "Well, even if it's not what I would prefer, at least I know exactly what to expect this time") ... only for him to hedge on the day of the surgery, telling me, "Well, it depends on what I find when I get in there."  What happened?  For the third time in a row, no cast.

 

In some ways, those failed operations and what followed set me back ... permanently.  I don't know how someone completely recovers from something like that; if it does happen, I imagine it would have to be pretty rare.  Sometimes, when I feel the rare urge to throw myself a Pity Party (but the trouble with Pity Parties is that the guest list rarely is more than one name long ), I ask myself why those two operations had to fail.  Did the Lord have a purpose in it?  I believe He did, if, even after all of these years, I don't fully understand it (Isaiah 55:8-9).  On the other hand, I'm still able to get around reasonably well.  While some days are better than others, I'm able to walk (and otherwise to move) comparatively/relatively free of pain.  Would that have happened had I not found the second surgeon who was willing to go out on a limb and try something different?  I seriously doubt it; I would probably be in a wheelchair today if he hadn't.

 

No one lives the kind of life I've lived without some serious emotional scars, in addition to physical trauma.  While I've graduated three times (twice with honors), I've never quite been able to find a comfortable occupational niche.  (Before I die, I would like to work one day for an employer who thinks I'm good for something besides answering phones! )  My professional aspirations have been derailed (perhaps permanently) by a lack of licensure, third (and advanced) degree notwithstanding, primarily, if not entirely, due to a complicated behavioral health history.  (Every day, I wonder if getting that advanced degree was worth it: it seems that the only thing it did for me was put me under a massive load of seemingly-crushing debt with limited ability to repay it, since my earning power is circumscribed.  I have spent the better part of the last 20 years crashing from one employment misadventure to the next, with long periods of unemployment and underemployment in between.

 

All of this, after receiving what I thought was a clear answer that I should pursue the most advanced degree I have received, and realizing (if only in retrospect) that there was no way I could have made it through my very tumultuous graduate education without divine help.  (I've quoted Francis Webster's account of his feeling like someone was pushing his handcart, but looking back and seeing no one, several times: that's how I felt during most of my graduate education.  Like Bro. Webster, I chose a spot in the distance where I said I would quit (usually the end of the semester), but, somehow, (and I don't think I could have done it without God's help), like Bro. Webster, I found the will and the wherewithal to keep going.  I thought I'd finally reached the top of the mountain when I graduated, but I was denied licensure six months later.  I had been giving serious thought to reapplying, and I sought a psychological evaluation in support of a new application ... but the idiot who administered it to me concluded he thinks I may have a personality disorder.  In doing so, he ignored an earlier evaluation that concluded that my particular diagnosis is in "sustained full remission."  I'd love to forget about the later eval and simply disclose the earlier one to licensing authorities, but if I do that, they would accuse me of lack of candor; but, of course, even if I disclose both of them to licensing authorities, they'll give greater weight to the second one than to the first, because it's more recent.

 

Meanwhile, my erstwhile professional aspirations now have been relegated to the status of a very expensive avocational hobby. (Ironically, it seems that my strongest suits forever are destined to be used avocationally rather than vocationally.  Why?  I dunno.  I don't regret getting that particular degree, even though it hangs like an albatross around my neck and makes me overqualified for jobs for which I might otherwise be considered without it.  I wonder every day if I should regret it.  Generally, depending on what I'm applying for, I either: (1) list it, but disclose my lack of licensure; or (2) don't bother listing it, and find creative ways to describe what I was doing with those several years I spent pursuing it.  And, just as I sometimes do with those two earlier failed operations, I ask, "Lord, that was pretty much a waste, wasn't it?"  And in response, the Lord says, "Ken, don't forget how you felt while waiting to be put to sleep on January 24 and February 14, 1984, and on June 7, 1985."  Those were my Oliver Cowdery, "Did-I-not-speak-peace-to-your-mind" moments.

 

I'd love for life to be an endless succession of found keys and miraculous cures and rainbows and sunshine and roses.  But for most of us, life is a mixed bag: sometimes, there are found keys, but if not, maybe there are kind locksmiths who help us out of our predicament without charging us nearly what their work is worth (or even without charging us at all); sometimes, there are miraculous cures, but if not, hopefully, there is strength to endure, and ability to see lessons learned from adverse circumstances, even if no cure is forthcoming (I've seen that, even though I've never had a terminal illness); there are rainbows, but maybe we have to live through torrential downpours in order to be granted the privilege of seeing them; there are roses, but, as the song says so well, "Every rose has its thorns" ; there are brilliant sunrises, but perhaps not before very dark, gloomy nights.

 

Whew!  Long post!  Sorry!

Edited July 23, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[HappyJackWagon]

ask in faith and you will receive

Evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm sure the response would then be "You didn't have enough faith" and there's no proof I can offer to dispute that but I will say it is untrue.

[Kenngo1969]

ask in faith and you will receive

 

 

Evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm sure the response would then be "You didn't have enough faith" and there's no proof I can offer to dispute that but I will say it is untrue.

I didn't do anything different before (or after) those first two failed operations than I did before (or after) the subsequent three successful ones.  Perhaps I should have done something other than pursuing that graduate degree that now is nothing more than a very expensive avocation/hobby.  (I've told myself that a thousand times, or maybe even a million).  Perhaps I should have pursued a different undergraduate degree, and maybe I could've settled comfortably into a career for the last 25 years. But concluding that perhaps I should have done something different is the easy part: determining precisely what that "different something" should have been, however, is much harder. As Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin and his mother said, "Come what may, and love it."

 

The Lord doesn't always give us what we want, and it may seem as though, in the short term and in mortality, He seldom even gives us what we need.  But we won't know that for sure until we see the Third Act and until we have the veil that prevents us from remembering the First Act lifted.  As trite and cliched as it is, there is wisdom in the "Footprints in the Sand" story.

 

"Ken, remember how you felt on January 24 and February 14, 1984, and on June 7, 1985."

Edited July 23, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

And there's this, from C.S. Lewis:

 

“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of – throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”

 

God's expectations for me and my expectations for me might not match up very well in some respects: I suppose I'll simply have to wait and see what kind of a house He's trying to build.

[Vanguard]

The Lord doesn't always give us what we want, and it may seem as though, in the short term and in mortality, He seldom even gives us what we need.  But we won't know that for sure until we see the Third Act and until we have the veil that prevents us from remembering the First Act lifted.  As trite and cliched as it is, there is wisdom in the "Footprints in the Sand" story.

That is very well said, sir. As for me, my life is filled with disappointments from prayer requests. And most of those times I glossed right over the most beautiful blessings I did have - blessings that I received from no conscious effort on my part. Those disappointments though must have been because I did not have enough faith...

 

And yes, the Footprints in the Sand story is very cliché.

[Calm]

 As trite and cliched as it is, there is wisdom in the "Footprints in the Sand" story."

Since urroner isn't posting recently, in his honor I must say "Buttprints in the Sand" is pretty profound as well.

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/61449-good-talks-vs-bad-talks/?p=1209286497

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58824-are-mormons-christian-continue-the-discussion/?p=1209173364

Edited July 24, 2015 by calmoriah

[Kenngo1969]

Burp!

Edited July 24, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

I say it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked on your butt and leave buttprints in the sand. It's how many times you get up that counts.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]