Temple Sealings

[GingerRed]

I am getting curious  questions by a few of my non member friends. I do want to tell them the correct answers. So here's what they are asking:

 

 In marriages that have children...then a divorce...unseal ex spouses how are the children of ex marriages in heaven...?

 

My answer:

 

Children remain sealed to both parents. Divorce does not sever that nor does a sealing cancellation The cancellation is only between the husband and wife. When an LDS man and woman are married in the temple, children born to that couple, under that covenant, are automatically sealed to the parents. There is no ceremony involved. However, when parents are converts, then marry in the temple, the family goes through a sealing ceremony as a family and all, parents and children, are sealed together.

 

 

Another question: What happens in case of an adoption? Is the child sealed to her/his biological parents (if they know who they are) or is he sealed to the parents, who have adopted him? In the case of children who leave the LDS religion/inactive...are they still sealed to the parents?

 

I'm not sure how to answer the second.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

 

Red

 

[Traela]

As per adoption:

Children are generally sealed to their adoptive parents. The only exception (that I have heard of) is when the child is already sealed to his/her bio-parents, either through a temple sealing or bring born in the covenant.

[bluebell]

As soon as the adoption is legal the child is sealed to the adoptive parents. For all intents and purposes the child is then seen the same as any biological child would be seen and parents are told that the sealing power overcomes biology. (I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I know multiple adoptive parents from different decades and states that were told that).

[Garden Girl]

As soon as the adoption is legal the child is sealed to the adoptive parents. For all intents and purposes the child is then seen the same as any biological child would be seen and parents are told that the sealing power overcomes biology. (I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I know multiple adoptive parents from different decades and states that were told that).

 

In my case... my sister and I were sealed to our biological mother and our Step-father.   My mom had to try and find my bio-dad to get his permission for the sealing.   But she was unable to do so, and the sealing to my step-father went forward.  Both my sis and I were thankful for that... one of my favorite family pictures is the four of us standing outside the SLC temple after the sealing... 

 

GG

[rpn]

Adoptive parents are sealed to their adoptive children, even ones who were BIC or sealed to bios.    How that works, I don't know.   But it does happen.

 

And a child who resigns does break his sealing to his parent, but the child cannot break the sealing of his parents to him.

[JAHS]

With regards to the sealing of children, what is most important in the sealing ordinance are the blessings that the child receives just by being sealed, regardless of who they are sealed to.  The act of being sealed to our own family members automatically seals us into the whole patriarchal order of families as it will exist in the Celestial Kingdom. In a sense we are all sealed together as members of the same family of God.

[Calm]

 

And a child who resigns does break his sealing to his parent...

Do you have a reference for this...I was under the impression a sealing was a two way thing, kind of like holding hands.  As long as one side is holding on, the hands are together and therefore the sealing is intact.

Edited July 1, 2015 by calmoriah

[JAHS]

Do you have a reference for this...I was under the impression a sealing was a two way thing, kind of like holding hands.  As long as one side is holding on, the hands are together and therefore the sealing is intact.

According to the CHI, "After a husband and wife have been sealed in a temple, if one of them is excommunicated or has his or her name removed from Church membership records' his or her temple blessings are revoked. However, the sealing blessings of the innocent spouse or children are not affected." 

I assume the opposite is true. If the children leave the church they no longer qualify to be in the Celestial kingdom with their parents. They may not be sealed to each other in the eternity but the innocent party maintains the blessings of being sealed.

[Calm]

Yes, but a faithful spouse does not remain sealed to the excommunicated spouse, so if that is the reasoning, sealed patents would not remain sealed to excommunicated children even if they remain sealed to each other and to God.

[JAHS]

Yes, but a faithful spouse does not remain sealed to the excommunicated spouse, so if that is the reasoning, sealed patents would not remain sealed to excommunicated children even if they remain sealed to each other and to God.

Right. They are not sealed together in the eternally being together sense, but having been sealed to their children, the innocent person(s), in this case the parents, still qualify for the blessings of once having been sealed to the children. God would not hold them responsible for the actions of their children.

[Stargazer]

With regards to the sealing of children, what is most important in the sealing ordinance are the blessings that the child receives just by being sealed, regardless of who they are sealed to.  The act of being sealed to our own family members automatically seals us into the whole patriarchal order of families as it will exist in the Celestial Kingdom. In a sense we are all sealed together as members of the same family of God.

 

When President Kimball cancelled the sealing between my wife and her first husband, his letter to her made it clear that the cancellation affected only the sealing between the husband and wife.  He wrote that the sealing between child and parents was not cancelled, but that it existed as a guarantee of eternal parentage, regardless of whatever happened subsequently to the birth parents.

 

Accordingly, being sealed to her as her husband, I consider all of her children to be mine as if they were my biological children, and likewise I am a grandparent to all of their children, in turn.  Mine!  All mine! 

 

And I should point out that my wife's ex was an ex in more than one way, having been excommunicated. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Stargazer

[Jeanne]

Hmmm..just one question here..some of us have been told that we chose our parents in the pre-existence.  So...if that is true this sure throws a monkey wrench at it.  My half brother and half sister had to get permission from their bio father for sealing to my father.  This was back in the sixties and I thought was a requirement.  Maybe if they can't be found they can do it anyway?  I say...why not.  If we can seal dead people..anything goes.

[bluebell]

Hmmm..just one question here..some of us have been told that we chose our parents in the pre-existence.  So...if that is true this sure throws a monkey wrench at it.  My half brother and half sister had to get permission from their bio father for sealing to my father.  This was back in the sixties and I thought was a requirement.  Maybe if they can't be found they can do it anyway?  I say...why not.  If we can seal dead people..anything goes.

 

Yes, if they can't be found then usually it can still be done.  

 

The same thing is true for legal adoption, where if the mother does not know where the biological father is, all that needs to be done is a reasonable search for him (it doesn't even need to be a very good search or exhaustive).  Then the adoption can go thru as desired without the bio father's consent.

 

And it seems clear to me that except for (maybe) rare occasions, that we do not all pick our parents.  Few of us would choose to be born to some of the monsters that have children.

[Kenngo1969]

... And it seems clear to me that except for (maybe) rare occasions, that we do not all pick our parents.  Few of us would choose to be born to some of the monsters that have children.

Serious subject, I know, but this snippet of your post reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOoCwZQvMg

 

Just sayin'!

[Garden Girl]

Hmmm..just one question here..some of us have been told that we chose our parents in the pre-existence.  So...if that is true this sure throws a monkey wrench at it.  My half brother and half sister had to get permission from their bio father for sealing to my father.  This was back in the sixties and I thought was a requirement.  Maybe if they can't be found they can do it anyway?  I say...why not.  If we can seal dead people..anything goes.

 

Hello Jeanne... see my post above... my sis and I are sealed to my step-father.  Mom had to try and find bio-dad, but when she couldn't the sealing went forward, thankfully... that was in 1955.  I was 14 and sis was 17.

 

GG

[ERayR]

My wife, her sister and two brothers were sealed to their step dad after they were legally of age and chose for themselves.

[JAHS]

Hmmm..just one question here..some of us have been told that we chose our parents in the pre-existence.  So...if that is true this sure throws a monkey wrench at it.  My half brother and half sister had to get permission from their bio father for sealing to my father.  This was back in the sixties and I thought was a requirement.  Maybe if they can't be found they can do it anyway?  I say...why not.  If we can seal dead people..anything goes.

 

The idea of us choosing our parents in the pre-mortal life is mostly Mormon folklore; it's not doctrine. Some may have been told this in their patriarchal blessing, but otherwise, probably not.

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

“We have no scriptural justification for the belief that we had the privilege of choosing our parents and our life companions in the spirit world. This belief has been advocated by some, and it’s possible that in some instances it is true, but it would require too great a stretch of the imagination to believe it to be so in all, or even in the majority of cases” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Way to Perfection, 44).

Edited July 5, 2015 by JAHS

[Stargazer]

The idea of us choosing our parents in the pre-mortal life is mostly Mormon folklore; it's not doctrine. Some may have been told this in their patriarchal blessing, but otherwise, probably not.

 

President Jpseph Fielding Smith said:

“We have no scriptural justification for the belief that we had the privilege of choosing our parents and our life companions in the spirit world. This belief has been advocated by some, and it’s possible that in some instances it is true, but it would require too great a stretch of the imagination to believe it to be so in all, or even in the majority of cases” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Way to Perfection, 44).

 

I would imagine that it is true in such limited cases as Joseph and Mary, Jesus's earthly parents.  I think that Heavenly Father would not have left that one to chance.  But I believe that President Smith has nailed it here.

[Jeanne]

Yes, if they can't be found then usually it can still be done.  

 

The same thing is true for legal adoption, where if the mother does not know where the biological father is, all that needs to be done is a reasonable search for him (it doesn't even need to be a very good search or exhaustive).  Then the adoption can go thru as desired without the bio father's consent.

 

And it seems clear to me that except for (maybe) rare occasions, that we do not all pick our parents.  Few of us would choose to be born to some of the monsters that have children.

As for choosing parents..I so agree.  Abuse is one trial here on earth that could not possibly bring about any celestial reward.

[Rain]

I would imagine that it is true in such limited cases as Joseph and Mary, Jesus's earthly parents. I think that Heavenly Father would not have left that one to chance. But I believe that President Smith has nailed it here.

The quote isn't about things being left to chance, only about us choosing our parents. Perhaps He chose for us?

[JAHS]

The quote isn't about things being left to chance, only about us choosing our parents. Perhaps He chose for us?

This is possible.  

"And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good;"  (Abr 3: 23)

 

In Acts it says:

"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" (Acts 17:26)

 

If God chose who his leaders would be and determined the bounds of our habitation, perhaps He chose which parents we would go to according to who we were in the pre-mortal life and what He wanted us to experience in this life.

[Garden Girl]

This is possible.  

"And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good;"  (Abr 3: 23)

 

In Acts it says:

"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" (Acts 17:26)

 

If God chose who his leaders would be and determined the bounds of our habitation, perhaps He chose which parents we would go to according to who we were in the pre-mortal life and what He wanted us to experience in this life.

 

"Perhaps?"  Speculation.

I do not believe our parents were chosen for us, nor that we chose our mates... too much infringement on agency in this life... and we fought a battle for agency... "determined the bounds of our habitation" does open the door that God had some part in it but determining general "bounds" is a lot different than specific locations/parents etc.  I can accept that certain times were appointed for some spirits to come to earth, i.e., it is said "we" have been held back until this last dispensation when the gospel has been restored to earth and that we would assist in the building of the kingdom in these last days.  Or, certain individuals like founding fathers, etc. or explorers coming to this chosen land, i.e., some spirits were foreordained to certain purposes.

 

GG

[Rain]

Speculation, yes. But I don't see any problem with wondering about it and studying for it.

 

I don't know why agency would be a problem.  Simplifying because I don't think the time thing really works this way I can see someone getting pregnant and Heavenly Father choosing who would go down to that mom.  

[JAHS]

Speculation, yes. But I don't see any problem with wondering about it and studying for it.

 

I don't know why agency would be a problem.  Simplifying because I don't think the time thing really works this way I can see someone getting pregnant and Heavenly Father choosing who would go down to that mom.  

 One question this brings up is the fact that we are told that our spiritual body looks like our physical body:

 

In the D&C:

"... that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created."(D&C 77:2)

 

My son looks almost exactly like me.This makes me think that there may have been some kind of relationship we had in the pre-mortal life, or that the creation of our spiritual bodies was planned to look like our physical bodies, which means that our spirits were pre-ordained to go to a specific set of parents.

[Calm]

Did the likeness between the spirit and the body only occur when the body was formed? I do not think the scripture indicates either the direction or detail.

My spirit was around for an eternity past more or less, did it look like me at birth, puberty, adulthood, middle age or elder years? If it changes in appearance over time as does the body, then there is nothing IMO indicating it was locked into its current correspondence (assuming it is more than just superficial) before the body hooked up with it.

Nor do I think my body is going to look like it does for the eternities to come. If DNA or whatever governs form in the next life is altered to remove disabilities and limitations, then it seems likely significant effects on the appearance will occur as well.