How To Tell Someone To Get Divorced Without Telling Them?

[Calm]

 Hurling the word abuser around is quite fashionable these days. I'll wager 99% of the marriages in America involve some form of verbal or emotional abuse.

 

 

I think the discussion here is based on the premise this is one of the more extreme cases.  Even if one agrees with your claim that 99% of American marriages involve emotional abuse of some form (I don't agree, I think for something to be abuse it has to be a persistent behavior over time and there are other significant qualifications), I highly doubt that very many marriages involve the police hauling the guy off and having him end up in the psych ward as Duncan stated.  IOW, the police recognized it as dangerous abuse and so did the medical community.

 

Anyways the latest, he is bi polar, but he abused her and the police came over and he was in the psych ward

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by calmoriah

[ERayR]

I think the discussion here is based on the premise this is one of the more extreme cases.  Even if one agrees with your claim that 99% of American marriages involve emotional abuse of some form (I don't agree, I think for something to be abuse it has to be a persistent behavior over time and there are other significant qualifications), I highly doubt that very many marriages involve the police hauling the guy off and having him end up in the psych ward as Duncan stated.  IOW, the police recognized it as dangerous abuse and so did the medical community.

 

Agree, however in rods defense I see too many crying abuse at the slightest provocation.  Most marriages have adjustment disagreements. 

[Raingirl]

I can never seem to get the quote function to work.....

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems there are members here who seem to believe that emotional abuse is mostly a product of a woman's imagination and that it is no big deal.

 

Emotional abuse is damaging.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that.  If you don't think it exists between spouses, do you also think that it is not possible to emotionally abuse a child?  That calling them names, degrading them, etc. does not cause damage?  It seems the attitude of some is that emotional abuse exists only in the imagination of the supposed recipient.

 

And speaking of children....try to suspend your disbelief for a moment and just pretend that emotional abuse of a spouse does exist.  Do you think that when a spouse is being emotionally abused that there is no affect on the children?  That they never see/hear the abuse? That it is never directed at them?

 

No human is perfect and sometimes people say horrible things in the heat of the amount or out of pain or fear or for some other reason.  Their behavior does not rise to the level of being an abuser.

 

And, yes, there are spouses who never call each other names or verbally abuse their spouse in other ways.  Yep, they really exist.

 

But there also exist those who - while never striking a physical blow - engage in unrelenting verbal/emotional abuse.  It's real.  It exists.  The damage and destruction it causes is real.  Why is that so hard to believe?

 

Imagine you had a daughter - or a son - in a marriage where the spouse endlessly told them they were worthless, unloveable.....negative message after negative message...year after year after year, because the abuse has no interest in changing because they don't see where they are doing anything wrong.  You would really want them to "honor" their marriage (when you really can't even call it a marriage) than honor themselves as a child of their Heavenly Father and remove themselves from the abuse?

[Calm]

 it seems there are members here who seem to believe that emotional abuse is mostly a product of a woman's imagination and that it is no big deal

 

I don't see any comments as pointing to women claiming emtional abuse inappropriately over men claiming the same thing.

[The Nehor]

I can never seem to get the quote function to work.....

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems there are members here who seem to believe that emotional abuse is mostly a product of a woman's imagination and that it is no big deal.

 

Emotional abuse is damaging.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that.  If you don't think it exists between spouses, do you also think that it is not possible to emotionally abuse a child?  That calling them names, degrading them, etc. does not cause damage?  It seems the attitude of some is that emotional abuse exists only in the imagination of the supposed recipient.

 

And speaking of children....try to suspend your disbelief for a moment and just pretend that emotional abuse of a spouse does exist.  Do you think that when a spouse is being emotionally abused that there is no affect on the children?  That they never see/hear the abuse? That it is never directed at them?

 

No human is perfect and sometimes people say horrible things in the heat of the amount or out of pain or fear or for some other reason.  Their behavior does not rise to the level of being an abuser.

 

And, yes, there are spouses who never call each other names or verbally abuse their spouse in other ways.  Yep, they really exist.

 

But there also exist those who - while never striking a physical blow - engage in unrelenting verbal/emotional abuse.  It's real.  It exists.  The damage and destruction it causes is real.  Why is that so hard to believe?

 

Imagine you had a daughter - or a son - in a marriage where the spouse endlessly told them they were worthless, unloveable.....negative message after negative message...year after year after year, because the abuse has no interest in changing because they don't see where they are doing anything wrong.  You would really want them to "honor" their marriage (when you really can't even call it a marriage) than honor themselves as a child of their Heavenly Father and remove themselves from the abuse?

As someone who only feels loved while being physically, emotionally, and verbally abused I wish people would stop vilifying it.

[ERayR]

I can never seem to get the quote function to work.....

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems there are members here who seem to believe that emotional abuse is mostly a product of a woman's imagination and that it is no big deal.

 

Emotional abuse is damaging.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that.  If you don't think it exists between spouses, do you also think that it is not possible to emotionally abuse a child?  That calling them names, degrading them, etc. does not cause damage?  It seems the attitude of some is that emotional abuse exists only in the imagination of the supposed recipient.

 

And speaking of children....try to suspend your disbelief for a moment and just pretend that emotional abuse of a spouse does exist.  Do you think that when a spouse is being emotionally abused that there is no affect on the children?  That they never see/hear the abuse? That it is never directed at them?

 

No human is perfect and sometimes people say horrible things in the heat of the amount or out of pain or fear or for some other reason.  Their behavior does not rise to the level of being an abuser.

 

And, yes, there are spouses who never call each other names or verbally abuse their spouse in other ways.  Yep, they really exist.

 

But there also exist those who - while never striking a physical blow - engage in unrelenting verbal/emotional abuse.  It's real.  It exists.  The damage and destruction it causes is real.  Why is that so hard to believe?

 

Imagine you had a daughter - or a son - in a marriage where the spouse endlessly told them they were worthless, unloveable.....negative message after negative message...year after year after year, because the abuse has no interest in changing because they don't see where they are doing anything wrong.  You would really want them to "honor" their marriage (when you really can't even call it a marriage) than honor themselves as a child of their Heavenly Father and remove themselves from the abuse?

 

If you were referring to my post the answer is no I know that abuse does exist and it is hell when it happens.  That said I have seen some who think every disagreement they lose is abuse. 

[MorningStar]

There is a difference between abuse and spats that happen when one momentarily has outbursts on a not regular basis due to extreme stress, illness, etc.  I have a friend who stuck it out, but her husband could be a huge jerk and threaten divorce every time they had the smallest disagreement.  He can't stand to be criticized.  His dad criticized him constantly and his mom coddled him and acted like he could do no wrong. 

 

No one should be expected to live in a constant state of harm or threatened harm, whether it's mentally or physically. 

[Duncan]

I am supposed to go over to her house tomorrow for HT so we'll see what happens. She was at Church and I was hoping the Bishop talked with her, I don't know if that happened or not

[rodheadlee]

If the alternative is inevitable abusing and being an abuser then I probably made the right choice. That you believe it is inevitable makes me glad I did not marry you.

Marriage does involve pain. Life involves pain but pain should not be the main feature of either.

I never said abuse should be the main feature in a marriage.. I said I suffered some abuse. We've been married longer than you have been alive.  Marriage and developing an eternal relationship involves putting your emotional and physical welfare 100% in the hands of your mate. It is inevitable that she at some point will let you down and hurt you. No one is perfect. What you do at that time will determine the length and depth of your marriage.

 

It may appear that I have tarnished my wife's image when in reality her image is bright and shines like the morning sun, made pure by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. She has dents and scars in her armor that glisten too, they are from battling evil during a long term/eternal relationship and being sent through the refiners fire. Those dents are beautiful to me. They represent her will to overcome evil, fending off the fiery darts of the wicked. If you don't have any dents in your armor, you're not fending off evil or you have chosen not to join the battle.  If you think that you or your mate won't be attacked by the evil one during your eternal relationship then you are mistaken. Even Jesus Christ bears scars from doing battle with evil. It's laid out in Ephesians 6.

11 Put on the whole ^aarmour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

  12 For we ^awrestle not ^bagainst ^cflesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the ^drulers of the ^edarkness of this world, against spiritual^fwickedness in high places.

  13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

  14 Stand therefore, having your loins ^agirt about with ^btruth, and having on the ^cbreastplate of ^drighteousness;

  15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of ^apeace;

  16 Above all, taking the shield of ^afaith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery ^bdarts of the wicked.

  17 And take the helmet of ^asalvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

  18 ^aPraying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all ^bperseverance and supplication for all saints;

[rodheadlee]

Good morning, Rod...

It is rare that I disagree with your posts, but this one is something that is very difficult... there are too many aspects that can enter into a situation that leads to divorce... aspects that can't be ignored, even forgiven... my mom and dad divorced when I was about 3 yrs old... they tried to work it out but my dad was just a Cad so to speak.  Couldn't leave the other women alone and loved to spend time at the local pub.  I have some horrific memories  of my drunken dad that are with me today like they were yesterday.  I can still feel the cool night air on my face as my mom fled down our long driveway, holding my sis's and my hands... running to a neighbor's... pounding on the door... my mom in tears... the neighbor taking us in... sleeping on the couch... my little girl mind confused at what what was going on... that was about the final straw... but the worst was yet to come... I've told about it here on the board and titled it "The night I rode with angels."  It plays like a movie in my mind and is very much a part of me and influenced me so traumatically that when my dad showed up when I was a young woman I refused to see him. 

No, Rod, there's too many aspects that enter into situations leading to divorce... Certainly one should try to work things out... I know my folks did try as my mom loved my dad very much... but he left her broken, alone at 29 to raise two little girls by herself, at a time when divorce and divorced women were looked down on.  My sis and I didn't realize until years later how very poor we were during those years.  I know my mom was lonely  but she put us first... 

My story has a happy ending... when I was nine, mom met and married a wonderful man... the step-father to whom my sis and I are sealed as part of an eternal family. He honored my mom and us girls all of his life... Now that was truly honor... 

But the movie from those early experiences continues to play in my mind and still brings tears, 70 years later.

 

GG

There are always exceptions to rules. As a rule we are to endure til the end. That doesn't mean endure the relationship that means endure the fiery darts thrown at it. It's not my place to say who is honorable in their relationship and who is not. That is between the wife, the husband, and God. I can only judge actions..What if your dad would have repented? Would you have forgiven him? Have you forgiven him? Did you give him a chance to repent? In my relationship I decided NOTHING is terminal to the relationship, what if I never gave my wife a chance to repent? or she I? I would have missed out on what we have now. I'm glad your mom found someone to love and cherish her. All the divorcees I know are still single after many years and don't care to lay it on the line again and will remain single.

 

 This woman Duncan speaks of should be considered courageous for honoring her vows and not looked down upon for choosing to do so. 

[rodheadlee]

I am supposed to go over to her house tomorrow for HT so we'll see what happens. She was at Church and I was hoping the Bishop talked with her, I don't know if that happened or not

I hope your intentions are honorable. If you come to my house, dressing my wife up with your eyes, wanting to counsel divorce, I'm going to sense it. My alpha dog DNA is going to kick in and I'm going to throw you out of my house and suggest to my wife that she find another church. You had better be very careful stepping into the breech.

[rodheadlee]

What you need to consider is that just because it was right for you to stay, does not automatically mean that it then must be right for everyone to stay.  

 

And I don't think i agree about 99% of marriages involving some kind of abuse.  I only have personal knowledge of three marriages (my own, my parents, and my maternal grandparents) and i can testify that none of those marriages involve any abuse of any kind.  My husband has never yelled at me, called me a name, or said anything mean to me, even when we fight, and i've never done any of that to him.  

 

I only know of one fight of my parents, but whether during that fight or in life in general, they have always treated each other like best friends.  I've never even heard them seriously complain about each other.  

 

My grandparents had a more traditional marriage in how they related to each other (my grandfather was definitely 'in charge', for example) but he never ever raised his voice to my grandmother and she never to him.  He never uttered a cross or cruel word.

 

Of course abusive relationships exist, and there are probably a lot of them, but it's very possible to have human weakness in a marriage (even to the point of hurting each others feelings or causing each other pain sometimes) without being abusive or being abused.  

 

We should never give anyone the idea that a 'normal' marriage is one where abuse happens.

How blessed are you! I guess I'll have to re-figure my stats. What is the percentage of Mormons marriages in America? Divide by 2, subtract that from the total and we will have a close number.

[The Nehor]

I never said abuse should be the main feature in a marriage.. I said I suffered some abuse. We've been married longer than you have been alive.

I stopped reading here. Longevity has never impressed me and appeals to it impress me even less. I know of many dysfunctional relationships (I am not saying this describes your relationship) that have lasted longer then I (and probably you) have been alive. I do not consider the participants to be founts of wisdom on the topic.

[Calm]

I hope your intentions are honorable. If you come to my house, dressing my wife up with your eyes, wanting to counsel divorce, I'm going to sense it. My alpha dog DNA is going to kick in and I'm going to throw you out of my house and suggest to my wife that she find another church. You had better be very careful stepping into the breech.

C'mon, Rod. Not called for. Duncan has been a forever poster and has never shown anything less than honourable behaviour towards others. This may be a sensitive subject for you, but don't let it push your buttons too much.

Remember the police came and took the guy to the psych ward, he has a tendency to get into fights. This is a complicated picture and really no one should be making assumptions save that if the woman is in actual physical danger, they need to provide her with a safe out.

No one here has any interaction with the woman outside of Duncan and he is trying to actively involve the Bishop. Sharing his experience here is probably so that he won't let his concern for the Sister to lead to a misstep, either in not protecting her properly if she needs it, but also helping her use her agency to make the right decision for herself. It is refusing to examine her life meaningfully and just being dismissive rather than searching for greater understanding and guidance that seems to me is what Duncan is worried she is doing.

If she refuses to even consider divorce, how is that really enduring until end? If we get baptized and then never after examine what our membership means to us, how can we ever recommit to the Lord and build our faith. Never questioning and just doing what one has always done because of a past decision is running on autopilot. If one questions and then chooses to stay...that is exercising agency.

Edited June 23, 2015 by calmoriah

[Jeanne]

The church has nothing to do with doing the right thing.  Follow your gut.  gees..

[Duncan]

I just checked out the Ensign's First Presidency message, it's on families, well, that's just ducky!

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/06/families-can-be-together-forever?lang=eng

 

How on we going to talk about this now?! 

 

With your bishop or the people involved.