How To Tell Someone To Get Divorced Without Telling Them?

[Duncan]

I home teach this woman that I have known forever. She is married and she married her first boyfriend. This guy is bad news all over the place. He isn't active at all and she is the I hate to say it but  Molly Mormonish type, she doesn't wear make up and wears pioneer women clothing. They have NOTHING In common at all, I think you could pick two people off the street who have more in common with each other. They have been married since maybe 2003? They have no kids, which she wants. they have been on again off again since before they got married and have been fighting and he is emotionally abusive and she keeps taking him back and she keeps making excuses. I and the world that knows them thinks if she dumped him, cut her hair, burned all of her clothes she would feel and think better about herself. She is wasting her life with this guy. The last time he came to church he almost got into a fight with a guy. Anyways the latest, he is bi polar, but he abused her and the police came over and he was in the psych ward and all that legal stuff but she tells me she signed for this and they have two places and one of them is to use her words a "safehouse". It truly blows my mind why she is still with him. I know the Church can't tell her to get divorced but does anyone know a way to tell someone to get divorced without actually saying it. Why he is still with her is a mystery as well, he's cheated on her so many times and she just keeps taking him back in.

[Storm Rider]

In this situation talking about self-respect and joy may be good starting points.  It is not healthy spiritually or physically to be around terrible person.  Even Godhead cast out Satan because of their choices; the Church does the same thing for those who choose a similar path that so clearly conflict with its teachings and standards.  

 

The simple question, "Are you happy?" can assist in focusing on what it will take to be happy.  Man is that he may have joy is the focus of our God; why should it not be our own focus?  

 

Sometimes we can become overly attached to a teaching or concept that it distorts our priorities.  It is not selfish to consider what is best for her. 

[bluebell]

Tread with caution.  Historically, a woman is never in more danger than when she leaves an abuser.  More women are killed after they try to leave than are killed who stay in an abusive relationship.  It also becomes dangerous for those who help the women leave.

 

Just an FYI.  I don't know the woman or the situation and you do, but i'm not sure i would touch this with a ten foot pole.  

[Duncan]

Tread with caution.  Historically, a woman is never in more danger than when she leaves an abuser.  More women are killed after they try to leave than are killed who stay in an abusive relationship.  It also becomes dangerous for those who help the women leave.

 

Just an FYI.  I don't know the woman or the situation and you do, but i'm not sure i would touch this with a ten foot pole.  

 

 

that's the thing I don't know what to do and it's just make you sick when she tells you everything and she think this is normal and what she signed up for, the Bishop knows, others know of course. I once gave a talk and addressed some of this but I don't think she got the message!!! ugh

Edited June 17, 2015 by Duncan

[BookofMormonLuvr]

that's the thing I don't know what to do and it's just make you sick when she tells you everything and she think this is normal and what she signed up for, the Bishop knows, others know of course. I once gave a talk and addressed some of this but I don't think she got the message!!! ugh

Show her that it is not normal- maybe invite her to family functions, enlist other good families to befriend her and show her what a real marriage and family looks like. 3 hours at church once a week won't give her insight into healthy family dynamics. Help her to crave what you have.

[Rain]

I and the world that knows them thinks if she dumped him, cut her hair, burned all of her clothes she would feel and think better about herself.

This isn't true. She will feel uncomfortable and not herself. She will feel that way till she knows she should like herself better and begins to like herself better.

What I, without any professional experience, would suggest is help find things that are safe so if and when she is ready to leave she knows where to turn. While it would be good for her to trust you, you have to be really careful about how safe she feels with you both for marriage and safety reasons.

Pray over the things you teach in lessons and talk to her about.

In just about any gynocologist office bathroom I have been in there is a poster of where to get help because that is one place most men don't go. Perhaps talk with the bishop about putting something like that up in the women's bathroom.

Bring it up in ward council and ask for suggestions.

[Rain]

One more thing. The goal should not be how to tell her to get a divorce for 2 reasons.

First that is her choice and we have no more right to tell someone to get divorced than we have to tell them to get married to someone. She has to use agency and inspiration to come to that choice on her own. You can only help let her know what is out there if she chooses to do so.

Second, it is not uncommon for women to bounce back in the arms of abusers. She needs to have the strength that comes from deciding to get divorced on her own to help her not go through it again.

[Kenngo1969]

...  it is not uncommon for women to bounce back in the arms of abusers. She needs to have the strength that comes from deciding to get divorced on her own to help her not go through it again.

And even if she doesn't go back to the same abuser, she may, for psychological reasons that perhaps that most of the rest of us can't fathom, be attracted to a particular "type."

[Duncan]

One more thing. The goal should not be how to tell her to get a divorce for 2 reasons.

First that is her choice and we have no more right to tell someone to get divorced than we have to tell them to get married to someone. She has to use agency and inspiration to come to that choice on her own. You can only help let her know what is out there if she chooses to do so.

Second, it is not uncommon for women to bounce back in the arms of abusers. She needs to have the strength that comes from deciding to get divorced on her own to help her not go through it again.

 

 

I honestly think she married him to save him somehow, I remember in YSA it was like whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? they are dating and they were fighting all the time even then, I can't even fathom why they stay together and you're right she needs to come to that conclusion on her own but how to put the pieces for her to get their is what I am wondering about, if she decided to do it of course

[Calm]

You might want to call up a women's shelter in your area and make an appt to go in to talk to a counselor about how you should approach her and him...just you by yourself. This is a lot more complicated than to be dealt in posts and for confidentiality purposes you should probably get this deleted. Plus it is unlikely but there is enough info here given the husband can figure out you are talking about them and it could trigger something. Or someone else in the ward as you've described a pretty unusual situation and they may do something stupid or dangerous.

Edited June 17, 2015 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

Some people prefer the misery they know over a chance at happiness.

[Traela]

Does she attend Relief Society? A first Sunday lesson on self-worth, unrighteous dominion (from men AND women), and recognizing the signs of abuse (in others, of course ) might be helpful. Or a fifth Sunday lesson on the same topics.

[The Nehor]

Try the subtle approach. Here is how one message board attempted to communicate to someone that they should get a divorce:

 

[The Nehor]

Duplicate.

Edited June 17, 2015 by The Nehor

[Kenngo1969]

Duplicate.

Because one of those wasn't enough!  (Not trying to make light of a serious situation ...)

[Duncan]

Does she attend Relief Society? A first Sunday lesson on self-worth, unrighteous dominion (from men AND women), and recognizing the signs of abuse (in others, of course ) might be helpful. Or a fifth Sunday lesson on the same topics.

 

 

yes, she works two sundays and then for some reason she attends another ward and helps out a family there, who moved away from here like 3 years ago and then attends our ward

[bluebell]

This is an excellent resource.  I don't know if it's international (i haven't looked at it enough to know) but i think there is stuff here that can help you, and might help her if there is some way to get her interested in checking it out.

 

https://www.whengeorgiasmiled.org

[Garden Girl]

It's obvious she needs counseling... she has many deep issues to even put up with this type of behavior... but... if he is cheating on her, she has more to be worried about than emotional abuse.  No telling what he might bring home to her...  This situation needs professional help, in addition to ward brothers and sisters setting examples, praying, etc etc. 

I wish the bishop was as concerned as you... do you think he understands fully the situation?  Thank you for caring...

 

GG

 

 

[Duncan]

It's obvious she needs counseling... she has many deep issues to even put up with this type of behavior... but... if he is cheating on her, she has more to be worried about than emotional abuse.  No telling what he might bring home to her...  This situation needs professional help, in addition to ward brothers and sisters setting examples, praying, etc etc. 

I wish the bishop was as concerned as you... do you think he understands fully the situation?  Thank you for caring...

 

GG

 

 

I have told him everything but I don't know what is going to happen and she just took him back and so in a few months this will all happen again and I think she's wasting her life and happiness

[rpn]

I'd be scared to have a HTer who thinks like you do.   By all means help her eliminate co-dependency and strengthen taking care of herself skills, and see herself as competent and worthy of being treated well.  Invite her (and him) to share time with your family that will help her recharge her batteries.   Help her to recognize her strengths.   Even support your wife taking her for a makeover if you are so inspired.   Give her info about the local domestic violence shelter and suggest she contact them to work on a safety plan, and talk with her about how it isn't healthy to accept ill treatment from others.

 

But what right do you have to decide her life.  And who are you to be thinking that she should get a divorce?  The church handbook tells leaders explicitly NOT to counsel people on whom they should marry or whether to get a divorce.   Our Heavenly Parents are FOR marriage --- They wouldn't be telling her to throw him away because the marriage is hard, even very hard.   "You don't have to settle on this loser person," denigrates the whole sacrament of marriage.

Edited June 18, 2015 by rpn

[Duncan]

I'd be scared to have a HTer who thinks like you do.   By all means help her eliminate co-dependency and strengthen taking care of herself skills, and see herself as competent and worthy of being treated well.  Invite her (and him) to share time with your family that will help her recharge her batteries.   Help her to recognize her strengths.   Even support your wife taking her for a makeover if you are so inspired.   Give her info about the local domestic violence shelter and suggest she contact them to work on a safety plan, and talk with her about how it isn't healthy to accept ill treatment from others.

 

But what right do you have to decide her life.  And who are you to be thinking that she should get a divorce?  The church handbook tells leaders explicitly NOT to counsel people on whom they should marry or whether to get a divorce.   Our Heavenly Parents are FOR marriage --- They wouldn't be telling her to throw him away because the marriage is hard, even very hard.   "You don't have to settle on this loser person," denigrates the whole sacrament of marriage.

 

 

hahaha! It's my lean, mean, low down dirty opinion but to me and like many, many others think the same as I do and you should read the emails about this from the ward council if you think I am harshing on them. I am not deciding her life but I care about people! I agree with you it's her choice but she needs to know she shouldn't be wasting her life she has options ad how to present those options is what I am wondering about. I was around when she was dating this man and our Bishop ramped up marriage and pressured us all to do it and missions and all these kinds of things "you can't be happy unless you're married" meanwhile his own marriage was in tatters but hindsight is 20/20. So, now all these years we are dealing with the effects. So, definately he pressured us all into these hinky slinky situations and now they tell us , "oh well they shouldn't have done that"

Edited June 18, 2015 by Duncan

[MorningStar]

There's no convincing people to leave an abuser just like you can't convince someone to deal with their addictions.  They have to hit their rock bottom.  I had a friend who met a guy online, he proposed, moved her up here, and they were fighting like crazy before they even got married.  I told her she was under no obligation to marry him just because he paid for her to move - that was the risk he took taking a relationship so fast.  She still married him and he later strangled her until she lost bladder control among other things.  It's a helpless feeling, but she did finally decide to get out.

[Duncan]

There's no convincing people to leave an abuser just like you can't convince someone to deal with their addictions.  They have to hit their rock bottom.  I had a friend who met a guy online, he proposed, moved her up here, and they were fighting like crazy before they even got married.  I told her she was under no obligation to marry him just because he paid for her to move - that was the risk he took taking a relationship so fast.  She still married him and he later strangled her until she lost bladder control among other things.  It's a helpless feeling, but she did finally decide to get out.

 

 

oh geez, that's crazy! I hope she's better! 

[MorningStar]

I haven't talked to her in a while, but I've seen signs that things are better.  She has PTSD and started coping with alcohol and was drunk dialing me at 4am.  I had to take a couple steps back from her.  Her ex was facing a felony charge, but she decided it was too painful to go through a trial.  The state wouldn't prosecute without her testimony. 

[Duncan]

I haven't talked to her in a while, but I've seen signs that things are better.  She has PTSD and started coping with alcohol and was drunk dialing me at 4am.  I had to take a couple steps back from her.  Her ex was facing a felony charge, but she decided it was too painful to go through a trial.  The state wouldn't prosecute without her testimony. 

 

oi oi oi well I hope she gets the help she needs!