Is Homosexuality Inherently Evil? Why?

[SmileyMcGee]

In 15 years of observing the church's efforts against SSM, I don't know that a solid explanation has been presented for what makes homosexuality inherently evil. The two most common attempts I've seen are:

1. Marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God

2. Homosexuality prevents exaltation.

Regarding the first explanation, logically, God ordaining one practice does not mean another is not or cannot be ordained by him. However, what i think advocates of this response really mean to say is "God said so." But God saying something is evil in no way explains the inherent evil of a practice. In addition, I don't know that such an explanation is adequate. Saying that something is evil solely because God said so would imply that certain practices would not be evil if God did not say so. For example, I think most would regard rape as evil, regardless of god's condemnation of the practice.

In response to the second, I would say that the church would then need to preach against celibacy and the refusal to be sealed as harshly as it does against homosexuality. We are taught that exaltation is reserved for those who have been sealed. It has also been taught that given the equity of God, all will have the opportunity to marry (which seems fair since God likely created humans to become like him). However we know there are degrees within the celestial kingdom reserved for ministering angels who do not marry. It seems that we can conclude that these ministering angels choose not to marry and thus choose a path other than exaltation. Why are they not condemned as homosexuals are? Why can't a valiant homosexual individual who remains true to their partner all their life not enter the celestial kingdom? Perhaps these are better questions than "what makes homosexuality inherently evil?"

[rodheadlee]

If you have to ask, you will never understand.

[SmileyMcGee]

If you have to ask, you will never understand.

If you respond like this, you probably don't understand either. And how will I never understand?

[Rivers]

The law of chastity says sexuality must be within marriage.

Marriage by definition is the union of man and woman.

These two gospel principles leave no room for homosexuality.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Rivers

[JLHPROF]

In 15 years of observing the church's efforts against SSM, I don't know that a solid explanation has been presented for what makes homosexuality inherently evil. The two most common attempts I've seen are:

1. Marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God

Regarding the first explanation, logically, God ordaining one practice does not mean another is not or cannot be ordained by him. However, what i think advocates of this response really mean to say is "God said so." But God saying something is evil in no way explains the inherent evil of a practice. In addition, I don't know that such an explanation is adequate. Saying that something is evil solely because God said so would imply that certain practices would not be evil if God did not say so. For example, I think most would regard rape as evil, regardless of god's condemnation of the practice.

 

 

You misunderstand what is meant by this.  If we say it is ordained of God that means we are saying it is according to eternal law, because God is a God of law and cannot violate that law without ceasing to be God.  So when we say marriage is ordained of God what we mean is that it is the eternal law.

 

Violating law is the evil.

The number one law of existence is simple - create life = good / prevent or end life = bad

This is why the wages of all sin is death.  This is why God's work is to bring to pass immortality/eternal life.  That is why Christ had to die to pay for our sins.  That is why resurrection (life) is the overcoming of death and sin.

 

Homosexuality is a relationship that uses our life creating gift in a way that can never ever create life.  It is therefore outside of the natural/eternal law.  That is why God ordained marriage and attached one great commandment to it - multiply and replenish.  Because relationships that create life is the law.   Relationships that stop life violate the law.  (And infertility is a medical condition - a separate non-sinful issue since agency is not involved.)

 

 

2. Homosexuality prevents exaltation.

In response to the second, I would say that the church would then need to preach against celibacy and the refusal to be sealed as harshly as it does against homosexuality. We are taught that exaltation is reserved for those who have been sealed. It has also been taught that given the equity of God, all will have the opportunity to marry (which seems fair since God likely created humans to become like him). However we know there are degrees within the celestial kingdom reserved for ministering angels who do not marry. It seems that we can conclude that these ministering angels choose not to marry and thus choose a path other than exaltation. Why are they not condemned as homosexuals are? Why can't a valiant homosexual individual who remains true to their partner all their life not enter the celestial kingdom? Perhaps these are better questions than "what makes homosexuality inherently evil?"

 

Whether the church preaches sufficiently against voluntary celibacy is debatable, but beside the point completely.

Also, "entrance in to the celestial kingdom " is NOT exaltation.  Eternal lives, eternal increase, and eternal families are exaltation.

Homosexuality is directly opposed to the natural design that brings this about.  We can speculate about spiritual insemination methods all we want, but this life is in the express image of things spiritual.  I have little doubt that spirit children are created much the same as physical children.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JLHPROF

[SmileyMcGee]

The law of chastity says sexuality must be within marriage.

Marriage by definition is the union of man and woman.

These two gospel principles leave no room for homosexuality.

this is just the"God said so" argument and does not answer the why.

[Duncan]

One thing though is if it's so evil why does God allow it or cause or whatever, where is God in all of this?

[SmileyMcGee]

You misunderstand what is meant by this. If we say it is ordained of God that means we are saying it is according to eternal law, because God is a God of law and cannot violate that law without ceasing to be God. So when we say marriage is ordained of God what we mean is that it is the eternal law.

Violating law is the evil.

The number one law of existence is simple - create life = good / prevent or end life = bad

This is why the wages of all sin is death. This is why God's work is to bring to pass immortality/eternal life. That is why Christ had to die to pay for our sins. That is why resurrection (life) is the overcoming of death and sin.

Homosexuality is a relationship that uses our life creating gift in a way that can never ever create life. It is therefore outside of the natural/eternal law. That is why God ordained marriage and attached one great commandment to it - multiply and replenish. Because relationships that create life is the law. Relationships that stop life violate the law. (And infertility is a medical condition - a separate non-sinful issue since agency is not involved.)

Whether the church preaches sufficiently against voluntary celibacy is debatable, but beside the point completely.

Also, "entrance in to the celestial kingdom " is NOT exaltation. Eternal lives, eternal increase, and eternal families are exaltation.

Homosexuality is directly opposed to the natural design that brings this about. We can speculate about spiritual insemination methods all we want, but this life is in the express image of things spiritual. I have little doubt that spirit children are created much the same as physical children.

Ordained of God seems to imply agency on God's part; regardless, you still don't answer the question as to why homosexuality is considered evil. You're just saying "because the universe says so."

I didn't say that that exaltation is entrance into the celestial kingdom. In fact I used the idea that non-exalted beings are in the celestial kingdom to question why homosexuals cannot enjoy the same blessings as others who choose not to be exalted.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SmileyMcGee

[JLHPROF]

Ordained of God seems to imply agency on God's part, and it still doesn't answer the question as to why homosexuality is considered evil. You're just saying "because the universe says so."

I didn't say that that exaltation is entrance into the celestial kingdom. In fact I used the idea that non-exalted beings are in the celestial kingdom to question why homosexuals cannot enjoy the same blessings as others who choose not to be exalted.

 

No, I answered the question.  Homosexuality is evil because it cannot create life.  Period.

 

And "ordained of God" refers to the revealing, not the origin.  All ordinances existed before the foundation of the world according to Joseph Smith.  God himself has no agency to change them.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Rob Osborn]

In 15 years of observing the church's efforts against SSM, I don't know that a solid explanation has been presented for what makes homosexuality inherently evil. The two most common attempts I've seen are:

1. Marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God

2. Homosexuality prevents exaltation.

Regarding the first explanation, logically, God ordaining one practice does not mean another is not or cannot be ordained by him. However, what i think advocates of this response really mean to say is "God said so." But God saying something is evil in no way explains the inherent evil of a practice. In addition, I don't know that such an explanation is adequate. Saying that something is evil solely because God said so would imply that certain practices would not be evil if God did not say so. For example, I think most would regard rape as evil, regardless of god's condemnation of the practice.

In response to the second, I would say that the church would then need to preach against celibacy and the refusal to be sealed as harshly as it does against homosexuality. We are taught that exaltation is reserved for those who have been sealed. It has also been taught that given the equity of God, all will have the opportunity to marry (which seems fair since God likely created humans to become like him). However we know there are degrees within the celestial kingdom reserved for ministering angels who do not marry. It seems that we can conclude that these ministering angels choose not to marry and thus choose a path other than exaltation. Why are they not condemned as homosexuals are? Why can't a valiant homosexual individual who remains true to their partner all their life not enter the celestial kingdom? Perhaps these are better questions than "what makes homosexuality inherently evil?"

Homosexuality is a sin in Gods eyes. God did not create man to be with man, he created man to be with woman. Any sexual activity has to be within the bonds of marriage between man and woman. Immorality is immorality. Homosexuality is not natural, it goes against nature and is a type of mockery of ones creation by God. Lucifer argues the same tirade over and over again questioning every law of God. Lucifer of course lost his case and was thrown out of heaven. One certainly is free to be disobedient to law and suffer the penalty if one wishes, but be very careful about falling into the same trap of Satan in questioning God's laws.

[SmileyMcGee]

Homosexuality is a sin in Gods eyes. God did not create man to be with man, he created man to be with woman. Any sexual activity has to be within the bonds of marriage between man and woman. Immorality is immorality. Homosexuality is not natural, it goes against nature and is a type of mockery of ones creation by God. Lucifer argues the same tirade over and over again questioning every law of God. Lucifer of course lost his case and was thrown out of heaven. One certainly is free to be disobedient to law and suffer the penalty if one wishes, but be very careful about falling into the same trap of Satan in questioning God's laws.

So we have another one for the "God said so" argument; still no convincing why. Oh, and please define natural in the context of your argument.

[Rob Osborn]

So we have another one for the "God said so" argument; still no convincing why. Oh, and please define natural in the context of your argument.

God also said thou shalt love the lord thy God. Now you can also just say the because "God says so" argument here too For that matter you could do it with all of God's laws and commandments and never get anywhere other than show ignorance and mockery to God. So why then is it a commandment to love God? Because we love God by being obedient to His commandments and serving him in holiness and through this process we gain access to Christ and salvation. So, why is homosexuality sinful? For the same reason that adultery is sinful. Do not be deceived to think that homosexuality is holiness before God.

[Calm]

One thing though is if it's so evil why does God allow it or cause or whatever, where is God in all of this?

God allows psychopathology. The argument that God allows it, therefore it is not evil ignores all the evil God does allow.

(I am not claiming homosexual attraction is inherently evil or like psychopathology, just pointing out why this argument does not work.)

[carbon dioxide]

Why can't a valiant homosexual individual who remains true to their partner all their life not enter the celestial kingdom? Perhaps these are better questions than "what makes homosexuality inherently evil?"

What exactly is a valiant homosexual? 

 

There are many different degrees of evil but all evil comes down to a violation of the laws of God.  Why can't a practicing homosexual enter the Celestial Kingdom?  Because the very act is a violation of Celestial law.   Every kingdom has a law and in order to obtain that kingdom, one must be in compliance with that law.  Whether a homosexual is true to their partner or not really does not matter.  God does not care about that anymore than God cares if an unmarried couple who live together their whole life are true to each other.  We were put on this earth to see if we would keep the commandments of God.  To see how obedient we are to the commandments.  Life is not an exercise of seeing in what creative ways we can find a loophole around the commandments.

 

Jesus and Satan are polar opposites.  Whatever Jesus is for, Satan is against and vice versa.  So one this issue we can ask these two questions to arrive at our answer

 

1.  What is Jesus views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

 

2.  What are Satan views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

[Rob Osborn]

What exactly is a valiant homosexual? 

 

There are many different degrees of evil but all evil comes down to a violation of the laws of God.  Why can't a practicing homosexual enter the Celestial Kingdom?  Because the very act is a violation of Celestial law.   Every kingdom has a law and in order to obtain that kingdom, one must be in compliance with that law.  Whether a homosexual is true to their partner or not really does not matter.  God does not care about that anymore than God cares if an unmarried couple who live together their whole life are true to each other.  We were put on this earth to see if we would keep the commandments of God.  To see how obedient we are to the commandments.  Life is not an exercise of seeing in what creative ways we can find a loophole around the commandments.

 

Jesus and Satan are polar opposites.  Whatever Jesus is for, Satan is against and vice versa.  So one this issue we can ask these two questions to arrive at our answer

 

1.  What is Jesus views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

 

2.  What are Satan views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

Very good answer. I tried answering these questions and it helped me further realize how too often we as society unknowingly play the devils advocate trying some desperate way to justify homosexual behavior.

[california boy]

No, I answered the question.  Homosexuality is evil because it cannot create life.  Period.

 

And "ordained of God" refers to the revealing, not the origin.  All ordinances existed before the foundation of the world according to Joseph Smith.  God himself has no agency to change them.

 

I am guessing that voluntary celibacy is evil because it cannot create life.  Period.  So basically you are saying that the church teaches that homosexuals are evil no matter what they do.  Good to know.  

 

Is it ok with you if I post this message on my facebook page as Mormon belief concerning gays?  This is very helpful.

[california boy]

What exactly is a valiant homosexual? 

 

There are many different degrees of evil but all evil comes down to a violation of the laws of God.  Why can't a practicing homosexual enter the Celestial Kingdom?  Because the very act is a violation of Celestial law.   Every kingdom has a law and in order to obtain that kingdom, one must be in compliance with that law.  Whether a homosexual is true to their partner or not really does not matter.  God does not care about that anymore than God cares if an unmarried couple who live together their whole life are true to each other.  We were put on this earth to see if we would keep the commandments of God.  To see how obedient we are to the commandments.  Life is not an exercise of seeing in what creative ways we can find a loophole around the commandments.

 

Jesus and Satan are polar opposites.  Whatever Jesus is for, Satan is against and vice versa.  So one this issue we can ask these two questions to arrive at our answer

 

1.  What is Jesus views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

 

2.  What are Satan views regarding homosexuality and SSM?

 

What are Jesus's views regarding homosexuality and SSM?  I don't remember reading any comments during His entire life on earth.  Did Jesus share the same opinion as Paul?  Cause I also don't recall any other apostle expressing their views on homosexuality.  Or what are Satan's views on homosexuality and SSM.  Do we know that?  Maybe you could provide a reference for ANY of the statements you have made???

[Buckeye]

The natural man's morality derives from what repulses him. Hence the focus on purification rituals and historic views of menstrating women being unclean. Homosexuality has been viewed as evil because the majority of people are repulsed by homosexual sex. That's not the entire answer, but it is the core of the answer.

 

As for God's morality, there really is not much scripture on point. The most common LDS argument revolves are an inability to have spiritual procreation, but IMO that is nothing more than an extrapolation of this life's limitations into the next life.

[Bobbieaware]

What are Jesus's views regarding homosexuality and SSM?  I don't remember reading any comments during His entire life on earth.  Did Jesus share the same opinion as Paul?  Cause I also don't recall any other apostle expressing their views on homosexuality.  Or what are Satan's views on homosexuality and SSM.  Do we know that?  Maybe you could provide a reference for ANY of the statements you have made???

From the LDS perspective, your "Jesus must have said it or I will not believe" approach is without merit.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, IT IS THE SAME. D&C 1

[janderich]

What are Jesus's views regarding homosexuality and SSM?  I don't remember reading any comments during His entire life on earth.  Did Jesus share the same opinion as Paul?  Cause I also don't recall any other apostle expressing their views on homosexuality.  Or what are Satan's views on homosexuality and SSM.  Do we know that?  Maybe you could provide a reference for ANY of the statements you have made???

Jesus said, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be on flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder" (Matt 19:4-6). This statement is extremely plain.I hope you will not try and twist it to justify homosexuality. 

[Duncan]

From the LDS perspective, your "Jesus must have said it or I will not believe" approach is without merit.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, IT IS THE SAME. D&C 1

 

 

Pres. Lee taught “It is not to be thought that every word spoken by the General Authorities is inspired, or that they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost in everything they read and write. Now you keep that in mind. I don’t care what his position is, if he writes something or speaks something that goes beyond anything that you can find in the standard church works, unless that one be the prophet, seer, and revelator—please note that one exception—you may immediately say, ‘Well, that is his own idea.’ And if he says something that contradicts what is found in the standard church works (I think that is why we call them ‘standard’—it is the standard measure of all that men teach), you may know by that same token that it is false, regardless of the position of the man who says it.” (The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator [address delivered to seminary and institute of religion faculty, 8 July 1964], p. 14.)

 

Thing is though the precedent has been set with this Priesthood ban business to overturn what a prophets in the past have said and according to the Ed Kimball article there wasn't really any scriptural justification for it. I honestly don't know what to think about our Church and Homosexuality other than to love them

[Buckeye]

From the LDS perspective, your "Jesus must have said it or I will not believe" approach is without merit.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, IT IS THE SAME. D&C 1

 

 

Some active members, myself included, read this scripture differently. I read to say that (1) the Lord will always fulfill his word and (2) when the fulfillment comes through His servants its the same as if He was doing it. But I do not read the verse to suggest that anything the Lord's servants say is guaranteed to be His word. When the servants make mistakes the Lord is not bound by those mistakes. That's true whether ther servants are home teachers, deacon's quorum presidents, bishops, apostles, RS presidents, sister missionaries, etc.

[janderich]

In 15 years of observing the church's efforts against SSM, I don't know that a solid explanation has been presented for what makes homosexuality inherently evil.

Sometimes we get caught up on words. So forget the notion of evil for a minute and just think in terms of ability. A man has certain abilities and a woman has certain abilities. In short, men and women are different. I hope this fact is obvious. No matter how much we talk about equality of the sexes, there are certain inherent differences. The differences are not just in regards to our bodies but also extend to our inner nature.

 

Because they are part of our inner nature, they extend not only to this earth but into the eternities. When our unique differences our combined, we together increase our ability. Or put another way, we increase in power, or priesthood. There is no way a man and another man can extend their priesthood in this fashion. Try as you may, it will not happen. 

 

It is this opportunity and these complimentary differences which allow us power over the adversary. And to gain power over the adversary is to increase in glory and thus progress into the celestial kingdom and throughout eternity.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

God himself has no agency to change them.

 

So much for an all powerful God.

 

But in the place of an all powerful God we have humans who are so certain of their absolute correctness that they would not only speak for God but they would weaken him. The lack of humility is breathtaking.

[Buckeye]

Sometimes we get caught up on words. So forget the notion of evil for a minute and just think in terms of ability. A man has certain abilities and a woman has certain abilities. In short, men and women are different. I hope this fact is obvious. No matter how much we talk about equality of the sexes, there are certain inherent differences. The differences are not just in regards to our bodies but also extend to our inner nature.

 

Because they are part of our inner nature, they extend not only to this earth but into the eternities. When our unique differences our combined, we together increase our ability. Or put another way, we increase in power, or priesthood. There is no way a man and another man can extend their priesthood in this fashion. Try as you may, it will not happen. 

 

It is this opportunity and these complimentary differences which allow us power over the adversary. And to gain power over the adversary is to increase in glory and thus progress into the celestial kingdom and throughout eternity.

 

If the differences are so obvious please list some of them. I've come to the exact opposite conclusion. Whatever differences our natures may have, our purpose is to become like Christ - to take on his nature. This is true for all people, men and women. And eternally speaking, Christ's nature is the only thing that matters. That's why I do not have a testimony that gender - particularly gender roles - will have any import in the eternities.

 

Things need not be entirely different to be complimentary. I have two eyes, two hands, two ears, etc. For each of these pairs, the individual elements have exact same function. But working together the pairs accomplish more than the individual parts. In my marriage, my wife and I have the exact same role. Yet we still need and compliment each other as much as any other couple I've seen.