A Strange Question From Me...

[Stargazer]

I have researched and studied the big bang in depth and concluded it's lacking foundation and actually does go against God being the creator of everything. I have invested time and thought and need to give no more to this matter at this time. Thanks anyways,

 

So, you started the topic in order to generate discussion that you don't need to give any more time and thought to, so thanks anyway?  Why then did you bother?  Just to watch us go into gyrations over it?

 

Oh, that's right, this is the Social Hall, and no arguing is permitted.  That's great, I think I will start a topic about how much I like chocolate ice cream then. Who could argue with that?

 

You wrote:

I totally agree with what some have said and thus, have to ask how can the “Big Bang Theory” have any factual creditability when it is based on a sudden explosion ( expansion ) of matter, time, and everything else from a single (inactive) point becoming active, and yet have no evidence of what caused it or came before it as in a pre-step to it going boom? The only explanation is God. God was there before nothing ever was including the single point the big bang theory is based on.

As to evidence, there's tons of evidence. I provided some to ERayR. If you've studied it as extensively as you claim, you must know that there have been thousands of pages of scientific papers written that support the Big Bang. So you cannot possibly claim that there's no evidence. Perhaps you can say that you think that every physicist and astronomer who supports the BBT is wrong (which would require you to say that they are ALL wrong -- and that's quite a stretch). But you can't say there's no evidence for it.

But of course you are correct that the only explanation is God. I completely agree with you -- since God initiated the Big Bang as the mechanism for creating the Universe.

Let me ask you a question: did God create the Universe, or not?

I suppose that you would answer that question with a "YES". But what if you answered "NO"? It would then follow that since He did not create the Universe, then the Universe is co-eternal with Him. And this also makes Him NOT the Creator. Since there was no Creation or act of Creation. So let's assume you answered YES.

But since God did create the Universe, it must needs be that He is the Creator, and he must also exist outside of it (because He couldn't have existed inside something that didn't yet exist). And what did the Universe look like at the moment that God created it? Did He make it so it was all put together looking exactly like it looks now? Or at the moment of creation did it start in some kind of primitive and disorganized state and become more organized over time?

The question is answered by both the biblical book of Genesis and by Science. Genesis says that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, the earth being without form, and void, and dark. Then God said "Let there be light," and from that time on things went from unorganized to organized real fast. Plants, then animals, then Man. He didn't do it all at once, but in a very logical order.

The funny thing about all this is that nothing Science knows about the Universe contradicts a single thing in Genesis. In the beginning, says Science, the Universe didn't exist, not even as a point (active or inactive), until suddenly there was light, and quickly it all started building up from basic materials and energy to the enormous vault of the heavens we see today when we look up at night.

[LOSTONE]

 

So, you started the topic in order to generate discussion that you don't need to give any more time and thought to, so thanks anyway?  Why then did you bother?  Just to watch us go into gyrations over it?

 

Oh, that's right, this is the Social Hall, and no arguing is permitted.  That's great, I think I will start a topic about how much I like chocolate ice cream then. Who could argue with that?

 

You wrote:

As to evidence, there's tons of evidence. I provided some to ERayR. If you've studied it as extensively as you claim, you must know that there have been thousands of pages of scientific papers written that support the Big Bang. So you cannot possibly claim that there's no evidence. Perhaps you can say that you think that every physicist and astronomer who supports the BBT is wrong (which would require you to say that they are ALL wrong -- and that's quite a stretch). But you can't say there's no evidence for it.

But of course you are correct that the only explanation is God. I completely agree with you -- since God initiated the Big Bang as the mechanism for creating the Universe.

Let me ask you a question: did God create the Universe, or not?

I suppose that you would answer that question with a "YES". But what if you answered "NO"? It would then follow that since He did not create the Universe, then the Universe is co-eternal with Him. And this also makes Him NOT the Creator. Since there was no Creation or act of Creation. So let's assume you answered YES.

But since God did create the Universe, it must needs be that He is the Creator, and he must also exist outside of it (because He couldn't have existed inside something that didn't yet exist). And what did the Universe look like at the moment that God created it? Did He make it so it was all put together looking exactly like it looks now? Or at the moment of creation did it start in some kind of primitive and disorganized state and become more organized over time?

The question is answered by both the biblical book of Genesis and by Science. Genesis says that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, the earth being without form, and void, and dark. Then God said "Let there be light," and from that time on things went from unorganized to organized real fast. Plants, then animals, then Man. He didn't do it all at once, but in a very logical order.

The funny thing about all this is that nothing Science knows about the Universe contradicts a single thing in Genesis. In the beginning, says Science, the Universe didn't exist, not even as a point (active or inactive), until suddenly there was light, and quickly it all started building up from basic materials and energy to the enormous vault of the heavens we see today when we look up at night.

 

I started a subject to create the sharing of different insights. This not only helps me, but others better understand the subject matter. I have invested my time in talking about this subject, but there comes a time where it is healthy to close a matter out and move on. This is what I have chosen to do for me with this subject.

As to the rest of your reply... You are just being rude and insulting without just cause for it. I won’t engage you in such immature behavior. Have a wonderful and bless day.

[Stargazer]

I started a subject to create the sharing of different insights. This not only helps me, but others better understand the subject matter. I have invested my time in talking about this subject, but there comes a time where it is healthy to close a matter out and move on. This is what I have chosen to do for me with this subject.

As to the rest of your reply... You are just being rude and insulting without just cause for it. I won’t engage you in such immature behavior. Have a wonderful and bless day.

And I have shared my insights on the subject.

As for my rudeness, I apologize for it. It seems that my attempt to inspire you to think about the matter further has gone in a different direction that I intended. May you have a nice day, too.

It's fortunate for us all that a disagreement on the Big Bang does not affect our salvation!

[Kenngo1969]

Before and after imply linear time. What it is like to live in an eternal " now " I cannot comprehend. Until we shake this idea of linear time , we are jousting at windmills.

Heh.  That deserves far more than the single rep point I was able to give it.  But even science posits a theoretically infinite number of universes, so it's not just we religionists who must grapple with such slippery ideas.

[The Nehor]

Ok, I was going to hold on sharing my point for this post and question, but because of some great insightful answers given, I will get to my point on this post.

I totally agree with what some have said and thus, have to ask how can the “Big Bang Theory” have any factual creditability when it is based on a sudden explosion ( expansion ) of matter, time, and everything else from a single (inactive) point becoming active, and yet have no evidence of what caused it or came before it as in a pre-step to it going boom? The only explanation is God. God was there before nothing ever was including the single point the big bang theory is based on. God proves the big bang theory is just a theory and never a fact based on anything outside of God. Those scientists that say it was a big bang that created everything or started things in motion are wrong. The answer to my strange question proves it. I hope I did not over complicate my thought here, but as usually, I probably did.

Also, to those who say the big bang is not a theory, but something that has been proven, that would be incorrect. I have searched alot on line about the big bang including NASA’s website and everything shows that the big band is still yet unproven as fact and still remains in a theoretical realm only.

Also, the answers given to this question help show that atheists are wrong about God not existing. For what causes this Earth and people to come to be if not for God? The big bang? Already shown how that was not the reason behind Earth and people? If atheist are correct and God is not real or here, than it only stands to reason we shouldn’t be real or here either. If there was never nothing before nothing, than there was always something and that something has always been God. Atheist have yet to prove their point as valid on any factual level . They may not want to own up to God’s ways or responsibilities and fear his judgment, but wanting something isn’t prove of anything. They have no prove.

This is the point of my question and seeking answers to it. To show it is and always was God for how we got here. No big bang anything and no he’s not there anything. God is and always was even before anything and before nothing.

Okay, I think I way....over thought this. Sorry. ( I sometimes sound like Sheldon Cooper )

 

Do you have any idea how condescending you are when you ask a question and are intending to lead people to the answer you want? Why do you think everyone was so annoyed at Socrates? Because he was an insufferable patronizing verbal manipulator. He was more entertaining then you are.

 

Your argument against the Big Bang is flawed. By this logic all evidence can be discounted unless we can determine why it exists. Gravity is obviously nonsense because we do not know where it originally came from. You do not exist because we cannot accurately trace your DNA back to its original source.

 

You have not proved anything in this rambling post. You did not disprove the Big Bang. You have not shown that it is false. You are not nearly as logical or rational as you imagine yourself to be.

[strappinglad]

Now Nehor, don't sugar coat your responses. Stop with the euphemisms. People expect a direct statement on how you feel. Tact has no place in this thread!

[Kenngo1969]

Now Nehor, don't sugar coat your responses. Stop with the euphemisms. People expect a direct statement on how you feel. Tact has no place in this thread!

He's an aspiring diplomat, he is!

[LOSTONE]

He's an aspiring diplomat, he is!

 

Was your re,ark intended to be an insult towards me?

[Stargazer]

Was your re,ark intended to be an insult towards me?

Read it over again. He was directing it at The Nehor.

The Nehor can be abrasive, but he can also be kind. He is a jokester much of the time, too.

And calm down. You're taking things waaaay too personally.

[LOSTONE]

Read it over again. He was directing it at The Nehor.

The Nehor can be abrasive, but he can also be kind. He is a jokester much of the time, too.

And calm down. You're taking things waaaay too personally.

 

It is hard to tell what he is meaning in a short statement as he made so I did the right thing and asked without assuming.

 

Please do not tell me what I am doing cause you don't know me or what I deal with.

[Stargazer]

It is hard to tell what he is meaning in a short statement as he made so I did the right thing and asked without assuming.

 

Please do not tell me what I am doing cause you don't know me or what I deal with.

And YOU might consider that we cannot see your face or hear your voice in this medium of communication, and thus we are left to wonder if your short question was not assuming insult. The same sentence spoken with a different tone of voice can mean something quite different, but we don't have tones of voice here. You read my earlier post and assumed I was being rude when there was no such intent, so perhaps you can understand this?

Anyway, I shall bow out of this conversation. Have a nice day!

Edited January 26, 2015 by Stargazer

[LOSTONE]

And YOU might consider that we cannot see your face or hear your voice and thus know that your short question was not assuming insult. The same sentence spoken with a different tone of voice can mean something quite different. You read my earlier post and assumed I was being rude when there was no such intent, so perhaps you can understand this?

Anyway, I shall bow out of this conversation. Have a nice day!

 

What ever dude. Your rude as hell and now blocked.

[LOSTONE]

And YOU might consider that we cannot see your face or hear your voice in this medium of communication, and thus we are left to wonder if your short question was not assuming insult. The same sentence spoken with a different tone of voice can mean something quite different, but we don't have tones of voice here. You read my earlier post and assumed I was being rude when there was no such intent, so perhaps you can understand this?

Anyway, I shall bow out of this conversation. Have a nice day!

 

No, I am not going to block you after all. It is not you that is being an *** in all of this. It is me. So I want to see what else you have to say. Sorry.

[Stargazer]

No, I am not going to block you after all. It is not you that is being an *** in all of this. It is me. So I want to see what else you have to say. Sorry.

OK, cool! But I don't know what else to say about the topic at this time, so I'll have to see what else might be tossed in by our estimable colleagues on the forum.

[Kenngo1969]

Now Nehor, don't sugar coat your responses. Stop with the euphemisms. People expect a direct statement on how you feel. Tact has no place in this thread!

 

 

He's an aspiring diplomat, he is!

 

 

Was your remark intended to be an insult towards me?

 

 

Read it over again. He was directing it at The Nehor.

The Nehor can be abrasive, but he can also be kind. He is a jokester much of the time, too.

And calm down. You're taking things waaaay too personally.

Stargazer is correct.  I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

P.S.: I probably should have quoted both The Nehor and strappinglad before my response in order to make things clearer, but usually (although I can't speak for everyone, this is my practice) if there's nothing quoted in a response, it's intended to respond to the post immediately preceding it.  Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

On that note the thread is closed. This is too contentious for Social Hall.

[The Nehor]

What ever dude. Your rude as hell and now blocked.

Wait, you wanted to block him but not me?

[The Nehor]

Now Nehor, don't sugar coat your responses. Stop with the euphemisms. People expect a direct statement on how you feel. Tact has no place in this thread!

To quote an old TV show:

"Tact is just not saying true stuff."

[thesometimesaint]

To quote an old TV show:

"Tact is just not saying true stuff."

 

Diplomacy/Tact is the ability to tell some to go to Hell(Michigan), and have them wanting to pack their bags.

[ERayR]

Diplomacy/Tact is the ability to tell some to go to Hell(Michigan), and have them wanting to pack their bags.

 

I have always heard it the other way around.

[Calm]

“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”

― Winston S. Churchill

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/33365-tact-is-the-ability-to-tell-someone-to-go-to

Edited January 26, 2015 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

I thought this thread got locked? I'm "lost" as to what it was all about in the first place, would you care to fill me in Lostone? ETA: Oops, just read from the beginning, you asked about and stated you didn't believe in the big bang theory and that's where the answers weren't what you were looking for, I know the feeling.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Tacenda

[strappinglad]

In case lostone is still watching, here are some interesting cosmic observations just in that may have implications on the Big Bang.

http://crev.info/2015/01/double-trouble-for-cosmology/

Edited January 27, 2015 by strappinglad

[Stargazer]

I thought this thread got locked? I'm "lost" as to what it was all about in the first place, would you care to fill me in Lostone? ETA: Oops, just read from the beginning, you asked about and stated you didn't believe in the big bang theory and that's where the answers weren't what you were looking for, I know the feeling.

No, it didn't get locked. LOSTONE and I had a brief disagreement that is now over and done with, that's all.

LOSTONE is of the opinion that the Big Bang is not true and just a mistake. He believes that the theory of the BB goes against God. His belief is shared by one or more of the others who have posted in this thread. I hold the opposite opinion, namely that the Big Bang is not only a fact, but that it confirms the existence of God. Of course it doesn't PROVE the existence of God, but provides the best non-religious evidence of Him.

In My Not-Quite Completely Humble Opinion. IMNQCHO.

Ultimately, the Big Bang has no bearing on one's salvation unless one allows the theory to drive one away from faith in God.

[LOSTONE]

I am still peeking in on this post, but because I allowed myself to get too emotional caught up in it, I have backed away for my sake and those who want to post replies here.

It is true, I do don’t believe in the big bang theory as a factual event and I do believe that the BB goes against God and my faith in God. I am not debating my believes. I made that mistake already. I am just confirming my point of believe for clarity.

[Stargazer]

In case lostone is still watching, here are some interesting cosmic observations just in that may have implications on the Big Bang.

http://crev.info/2015/01/double-trouble-for-cosmology/

I read that article and while it is very interesting, it doesn't address the Big Bang specifically. It is no surprise (to me) that there would be lots of heavy metal dust in galactic halos, for the simple fact that when supernovae blow up the particles are thrown out at velocities that exceed galactic escape velocity. Thus the bulk of these materials would have to be ejected from the galaxy -- eventually. But a lot of these materials would slam into other dust clouds and nebulae and would slow down enough to be captured. Otherwise, where would our Solar System's metals have come from?

 

I am still peeking in on this post, but because I allowed myself to get too emotional caught up in it, I have backed away for my sake and those who want to post replies here.

It is true, I do don’t believe in the big bang theory as a factual event and I do believe that the BB goes against God and my faith in God. I am not debating my believes. I made that mistake already. I am just confirming my point of believe for clarity.

That's quite understandable. I sometimes find myself getting too caught up with things, and I know that's the time to let it cool off. And I shan't debate with you further over this, seeing that we've both presented our cases and are each satisfied to agree to disagree.

But if you ever run into anyone who is using the BB as a club to beat you or others with, in regard to the existence of God (in other words, trying to use the BB to prove God doesn't exist), then I give you full permission to use my arguments against THEM, if you wish. You can say, "Well, I don't believe this stuff, but there's this guy I know who is into the Big Bang as evidence that God does exist, and he says this: {quote}. Who knows, maybe it will scare him off.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Stargazer