The Next 100 Mormon Years

[Sine Saw Square]

Several years ago I read George Friedman's book "The Next One Hundred Years'. It covers speculations, predictions and assessments of geo-politics, technology, and culture over the next century. He states in the forward that the by looking at developments throughout history- the one thing for certain is that the course of the global history takes unexpected paths and that predicting anything is really just a guess, educated or no.

 

With that sentiment firmly in mind I'd like to propose the following thought experiment:  Imagine it's 2115 and the second coming hasn't happened. Most likely technology will continue to advance and society will adapted and reacted accordingly. Advances in robotics, bioengineering, cybernetics, networking, virtual reality, longevity medicine, space exploration, and a changing geo-political landscape are sure to influence everyone; including us Mormons. So... What does being a Mormon look like?

 

Note: I do not want to this to turn in to a wish-list of how people WANT the Church to change to accommodate anyone's particular pet agenda. I'd love to hear your honest best guesses as to how the Church will respond to/fit in/push back against what will (may) happen in the next 100 years. 

[The Nehor]

The average Mormon in 2115:

 

[Sevenbak]

"Imagine it's 2115 and the second coming hasn't happened."

 

Nowhere in my wildest imagination can I envision a scenario like this.  I suppose anything's possible, but sorry, can't help you.

[JLHPROF]

Several years ago I read George Friedman's book "The Next One Hundred Years'. It covers speculations, predictions and assessments of geo-politics, technology, and culture over the next century. He states in the forward that the by looking at developments throughout history- the one thing for certain is that the course of the global history takes unexpected paths and that predicting anything is really just a guess, educated or no.

 

With that sentiment firmly in mind I'd like to propose the following thought experiment:  Imagine it's 2115 and the second coming hasn't happened. Most likely technology will continue to advance and society will adapted and reacted accordingly. Advances in robotics, bioengineering, cybernetics, networking, virtual reality, longevity medicine, space exploration, and a changing geo-political landscape are sure to influence everyone; including us Mormons. So... What does being a Mormon look like?

 

Note: I do not want to this to turn in to a wish-list of how people WANT the Church to change to accommodate anyone's particular pet agenda. I'd love to hear your honest best guesses as to how the Church will respond to/fit in/push back against what will (may) happen in the next 100 years. 

 

100 years from now, no second coming, a changing world - what will we see:

(Just opinion)

 

1. Women will be ordained to the priesthood.

2. Church will become even more similar to evangelical Christianity in doctrine and practice (although I doubt the trinity would make it in)

3. No more garments

4. Temples will be more open to non-members, primarily because very little of the "peculiar" will remain - another 1990 will likely take care of that.

5. Mainstreaming/Assimilation will continue in order that conversions can grow.

6. I still doubt SSM will make it into the Church, but continued allowances for members with SSA will be made.

 

Once all those things happen, there will be little to differentiate the Church from any other religion, and so there will little left to need any change.

Fortunately the setting in order will happen before this could happen...

[rodheadlee]

I can't answer because I don't believe we have 100 years left before we destroy ourselves almost completely. Then I believe Christ will step in and clean up what is left.

[The Nehor]

If no Second Coming takes place:

 

1. Missionary work will continue with peaks and dips as always. Virtual missionary visits will become a thing.

2. The Church will fight against growing realistic entertainment that sucks us away from the real world.

3. The church will be opposed to unnecessary cybernetic augmentation.

4. As increasing automation frees us from most of economic scarcity the Church will place renewed emphasis on Temple Work, missionary work, self-improvement, and service focusing on emotional help.

5. Homosexual activism will be diminished after World War III.

6. Polygamy will be restored but require permission from Priesthood leaders.

7. There will be a small faction of sister wives seeking to recognize lesbian activity within their marriages.

8. Polyandry will be considered. It may even happen.

9. There will be a shift back to the physical gathering as LDS communities become more detached from the prevailing culture.

10. The Republican party in the US will become borderline fascist; the Democrats will begin a shift towards more extreme market socialism with utopian ideals they will not be able to deliver on. Both will learn to tone down their extremes after World War III assuming both parties survive. The church and members will slowly back up from political participation.

11. The growing access to porn worldwide will cause a global epidemic of porn addiction amongst those susceptible to it. Fetishes and perversions will become more commonplace. The Church will fight it.

12. The church will stay neutral on bioengineering lifeforms to perform tasks.

13. The church will take a stronger stand on physical health as many people deteriorate due to decreased need for physical activity. Depression and other mental and emotional ailments will continue to rise due to this lack.

14. Hispanics will be the dominant ethnicity through most of North and South America as the Lamanites blossom.

15. The prophet will continue to warn of coming problems and the Saints will lose members and gain members as we always have.

16. A good portion of the LDS people will be convinced that the Second Coming is imminent as they always have. They might be right but they might not be.

[Sine Saw Square]

If no Second Coming takes place:

 

1. Missionary work will continue with peaks and dips as always. Virtual missionary visits will become a thing.

2. The Church will fight against growing realistic entertainment that sucks us away from the real world.

My thoughts as well. I think there are certain types of media that Church leadership will caution members to use not at all.

 

3. The church will be opposed to unnecessary cybernetic augmentation.

This and other augmentations (bio or mechanical) is one of the things I really don't know where the Church will stand on. Do you think it would be on grounds of 'the body is a temple' argument?  What if such augmentations are to designed to enhance ability and performance?  (Computing power, physical activity, etc) What if such augmentations become the norm and to be without puts you at a disadvantage?

 

4. As increasing automation frees us from most of economic scarcity the Church will place renewed emphasis on Temple Work, missionary work, self-improvement, and service focusing on emotional help.

I can totally see this happening. 

 

5. Homosexual activism will be diminished after World War III.

I don't see how there will be a World War III. Regional conflicts but not a global one.

 

6. Polygamy will be restored but require permission from Priesthood leaders.

This I've wondered about too. Such a change in policy would probably see the largest exodus from the Church in it's history. I don't see a pathway in which such a large change could happen. 

 

7. There will be a small faction of sister wives seeking to recognize lesbian activity within their marriages.

8. Polyandry will be considered. It may even happen.

Jokes right?

 

9. There will be a shift back to the physical gathering as LDS communities become more detached from the prevailing culture.

That's an intriguing thought. It could also happen for protective reasons.

 

10. The Republican party in the US will become borderline fascist; the Democrats will begin a shift towards more extreme market socialism with utopian ideals they will not be able to deliver on. Both will learn to tone down their extremes after World War III assuming both parties survive. The church and members will slowly back up from political participation.

Again a joke? I can't tell. I'd prefer to keep specific politics out of this thread.

 

11. The growing access to porn worldwide will cause a global epidemic of porn addiction amongst those susceptible to it. Fetishes and perversions will become more commonplace. The Church will fight it.

Sadly I agree.

 

12. The church will stay neutral on bioengineering lifeforms to perform tasks.

Leadership hasn't made any statements on research so far- but if life forms start to actually be created or hybridized- I wonder?

 

13. The church will take a stronger stand on physical health as many people deteriorate due to decreased need for physical activity. Depression and other mental and emotional ailments will continue to rise due to this lack.

I can see this. An emphasis through the Word of Wisdom on the "walk and not be weary, run and not faint" bits?

 

14. Hispanics will be the dominant ethnicity through most of North and South America as the Lamanites blossom.

Curiously, in Friedman's book- he predicts one of the next centuries rising Powers will be Mexico (along with Poland and Turkey)

 

15. The prophet will continue to warn of coming problems and the Saints will lose members and gain members as we always have.

16. A good portion of the LDS people will be convinced that the Second Coming is imminent as they always have. They might be right but they might not be.

 

I'm fascinated that the responses so far seem skeptical that the next 100 years will not pass away before Christ returns. Is that a commonly held belief by members?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Sine Saw Square

[Sine Saw Square]

Fixed that for yah Nehor

[Tsuzuki]

In 100 years time, there will be a genuine schism in the church involving Apostles, which will lead to multiple organizations with realistic claims to all the Priesthood keys.

[WysteriaBlue]

Love the nametag!!!  might still need a black tie though...

Now feel completely safe letting him in my front door for testimony time...

will never forget verse references...and programmed for correct multilingual use...

Perhaps will collect fast offerings more effectively as well.

Plus can be shot when disagrees or does not tithe properly or disagrees with Nehor..lol

 

ROFL!!!

wb

Edited October 29, 2014 by WysteriaBlue

[mormonnewb]

100 years from now, no second coming, a changing world - what will we see:

(Just opinion)

 

1. Women will be ordained to the priesthood.

2. Church will become even more similar to evangelical Christianity in doctrine and practice (although I doubt the trinity would make it in)

3. No more garments

4. Temples will be more open to non-members, primarily because very little of the "peculiar" will remain - another 1990 will likely take care of that.

5. Mainstreaming/Assimilation will continue in order that conversions can grow.

6. I still doubt SSM will make it into the Church, but continued allowances for members with SSA will be made.

 

Once all those things happen, there will be little to differentiate the Church from any other religion, and so there will little left to need any change.

Fortunately the setting in order will happen before this could happen...

 

I agree with you 83.333333% (I'm not so sure that the Church will be able to withstand the "mainstream" pressure to ordain SSMs, but it's certainly an open question).

 

However, to make it interesting, what if these changes were to occur in your lifetime?  Could you still sustain the leaders?  Would you speak out about the "watering down" of the faith?  Would you go further and start Ordain Garments?

 

I'm just curious as to how you conceptualize being in the minority in the Church.

[JLHPROF]

I agree with you 83.333333% (I'm not so sure that the Church will be able to withstand the "mainstream" pressure to ordain SSMs, but it's certainly an open question).

 

However, to make it interesting, what if these changes were to occur in your lifetime?  Could you still sustain the leaders?  Would you speak out about the "watering down" of the faith?  Would you go further and start Ordain Garments?

 

I'm just curious as to how you conceptualize being in the minority in the Church.

 

In all honesty, I'd probably become inactive - and just keep the commandments at home.  I have no authority to set the Church in order.  But I'm not going to violate my covenants or accept "watering down" of the gospel.  I will be quite happy to wait for the setting in order to restore anything lost by man.  We are in no danger of another "great apostasy" so patience bears out, without concession.

 

As Joseph Smith said "It mattereth not whether the principle is popular or unpopular, I will always maintain a true principle, even if I stand alone in it".

[mormonnewb]

In 100 years time, there will be a genuine schism in the church involving Apostles, which will lead to multiple organizations with realistic claims to all the Priesthood keys.

 

I can't agree with you there, my Brother.  I think our apostles are trained and mentored first and foremost to believe in a church unified under the direction of the prophet.  Someone with a mutinous spirit would never get past SP, if that far.  And while someone might be able to "play the game" for a while, they couldn't do so for the 40-50 years that it takes to develop into an apostle.

 

I do suspect that there will be more Denver Snuffers who create limited splinter groups.  However, from a pragmatic standpoint, it will be hard for such a person to build a huge following.  The Church simply has too much infrastructure to offer to make leaving attractive for many saints.  I'm about as mutinous as one gets and I never even considered joining the Snufferites.  Besides, there is still a chance that this splinter movement could go really wrong.  And while I'm not confident that our leaders are always right, I am confident that they aren't going to go the FLDS, Heaven's Gate or Branch Davidian route.  Therefore, for even those with questions, it's a matter of choosing the [apostle] that you know.

[mormonnewb]

In all honesty, I'd probably become inactive - and just keep the commandments at home.  I have no authority to set the Church in order.  But I'm not going to violate my covenants or accept "watering down" of the gospel.  I will be quite happy to wait for the setting in order to restore anything lost by man.  We are in no danger of another "great apostasy" so patience bears out, without concession.

 

As Joseph Smith said "It mattereth not whether the principle is popular or unpopular, I will always maintain a true principle, even if I stand alone in it".

 

But isn't there a way to keep your Mormonism but still remain a part of the larger Mormon community?  For instance, even if the Church ultimately gets a revelation that garments are no longer required, it won't prevent you from continuing in the practice.  Certainly, your expression of devotion in this regard doesn't depend upon all other Mormons doing it as well.

 

Now, I will confess that it might be difficult to sit through a Sunday School class where you strongly disagree with the doctrines being espoused.  But that happens from time to time now and I suspect you've learned to say what I say in my head, "Bless her heart!  Sister So-and-So is dead wrong, but I love that woman anyway."

 

I see the Church as being much more than just a place where we learn the principles of the Gospel.  I see the Church as the place where we get to practice those principles.  And sure, I guess part of that process is performing the ordinances.  But aren't the things that we do outside of the temple just as important?  Isn't Mormonism also about loving and serving our fellow saints and the community at large?

 

Now, if that part changes and we stop doing home teaching, disband the EQ and Relief Society, close the farms and canneries, etc., then I'll beat you to the door.  However, if it's just a matter that not every Mormon practices the faith like I do, then it seems worth it to stay.  But trust me, I feel your (far into the future) pain, Brother!

[Avatar4321]

Zion will be established. The wicked will be destroying one another. Christ sill come soon after.

[Calm]

Misunderstood, deleted

Edited October 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[JLHPROF]

But isn't there a way to keep your Mormonism but still remain a part of the larger Mormon community?  For instance, even if the Church ultimately gets a revelation that garments are no longer required, it won't prevent you from continuing in the practice.  Certainly, your expression of devotion in this regard doesn't depend upon all other Mormons doing it as well.

 

It would be nice if that were true, but unfortunately (and oddly enough) whenever the Church discontinues a practice or doctrine it seems to become an ex-communicable offense.  That's historically proven.

 

 

 

Now, I will confess that it might be difficult to sit through a Sunday School class where you strongly disagree with the doctrines being espoused.  But that happens from time to time now and I suspect you've learned to say what I say in my head, "Bless her heart!  Sister So-and-So is dead wrong, but I love that woman anyway."

 

Oh, of course I can do that (so long as nobody is denigrating something I hold sacred).  People have every right to be wrong.

 

 

I see the Church as being much more than just a place where we learn the principles of the Gospel.  I see the Church as the place where we get to practice those principles.  And sure, I guess part of that process is performing the ordinances.  But aren't the things that we do outside of the temple just as important?  Isn't Mormonism also about loving and serving our fellow saints and the community at large?

 

Now, if that part changes and we stop doing home teaching, disband the EQ and Relief Society, close the farms and canneries, etc., then I'll beat you to the door.  However, if it's just a matter that not every Mormon practices the faith like I do, then it seems worth it to stay.  But trust me, I feel your (far into the future) pain, Brother!

 

For me my religion isn't the ordinances and it isn't loving and serving our fellow saints.  My religion is doing what GOD has commanded his children to do.  If God says home teach and provide for the poor, then you bet that is what I want to do.  If God says baptism is by immersion and the ordinances of the temple are to be performed like this, then you be that is what I'm going to do.  It's all about doing what God commands so we can become like God is.  That's what Mormonism is all about.  Both in the internal and the external.

 

And if I am prevented from doing as God commands, or worse, asked to do something against God's commands, well, sometimes refusing to participate is the best choice.

[mormonnewb]

It would be nice if that were true, but unfortunately (and oddly enough) whenever the Church discontinues a practice or doctrine it seems to become an ex-communicable offense.  That's historically proven.

 

 

Oh, of course I can do that (so long as nobody is denigrating something I hold sacred).  People have every right to be wrong.

 

 

For me my religion isn't the ordinances and it isn't loving and serving our fellow saints.  My religion is doing what GOD has commanded his children to do.  If God says home teach and provide for the poor, then you bet that is what I want to do.  If God says baptism is by immersion and the ordinances of the temple are to be performed like this, then you be that is what I'm going to do.  It's all about doing what God commands so we can become like God is.  That's what Mormonism is all about.  Both in the internal and the external.

 

And if I am prevented from doing as God commands, or worse, asked to do something against God's commands, well, sometimes refusing to participate is the best choice.

 

But isn't what God commands what the prophets say it is?  If they say that God no longer permits the wearing of garments (at least, for this time in mortality), then isn't the will of God?  Or are you saying that the pronouncements of the prophets and the will of the Father are two different things?

[Tsuzuki]

I can't agree with you there, my Brother.  I think our apostles are trained and mentored first and foremost to believe in a church unified under the direction of the prophet.  Someone with a mutinous spirit would never get past SP, if that far.  And while someone might be able to "play the game" for a while, they couldn't do so for the 40-50 years that it takes to develop into an apostle.

 

I do suspect that there will be more Denver Snuffers who create limited splinter groups.  However, from a pragmatic standpoint, it will be hard for such a person to build a huge following.  The Church simply has too much infrastructure to offer to make leaving attractive for many saints.  I'm about as mutinous as one gets and I never even considered joining the Snufferites.  Besides, there is still a chance that this splinter movement could go really wrong.  And while I'm not confident that our leaders are always right, I am confident that they aren't going to go the FLDS, Heaven's Gate or Branch Davidian route.  Therefore, for even those with questions, it's a matter of choosing the [apostle] that you know.

There doesn't need to be anyone with a mutinous spirit, only sincerely held convictions that are so at odds as to be irreconcilable. The scenario I described almost happened in 1943 when Apostle Richard R. Lyman was excommunicated.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lyman

[JLHPROF]

But isn't what God commands what the prophets say it is?  If they say that God no longer permits the wearing of garments (at least, for this time in mortality), then isn't the will of God?  Or are you saying that the pronouncements of the prophets and the will of the Father are two different things?

 

I covenanted in the most sacred of places with my God to wear the garments for my entire life as per his commandment.

He in turn promised me blessings (as covenants are always two-way).

 

Nobody but God has the right to release me from a covenant I made with him.  And if he does revoke any commandment we lose our blessings.  I did not covenant with the prophets and asking me to break a covenant with God had better come with some heavy duty revelatory proof.

[The Nehor]

There doesn't need to be anyone with a mutinous spirit, only sincerely held convictions that are so at odds as to be irreconcilable. The scenario I described almost happened in 1943 when Apostle Richard R. Lyman was excommunicated.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lyman

 

No, that was nowhere near fracturing the church. The guy had no following whatsoever when he was excommunicated.

[JLHPROF]

No, that was nowhere near fracturing the church. The guy had no following whatsoever when he was excommunicated.

 

This is true - I think the last time anything even close to a schism in the Church happened was the resignation  of John W. Taylor and Matthias Cowley prior to their excommunications.   Taylor in particular was bound and determined he had done nothing wrong and there were many early fundamentalists (although no organized group) who were still poking around inside the Church at the time.  They would have flocked to these two men.

 

I find it hilarious that these excommunicated apostles are always rebaptized and all blessings restored when they die, like it's all water under the bridge so here's everything back we had to take from you.

[Tsuzuki]

No, that was nowhere near fracturing the church. The guy had no following whatsoever when he was excommunicated.

That's why I said "almost." If he'd wanted to run with it, he could have, and it was enough to make J. Reuben Clark worried.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Tsuzuki

[Avatar4321]

That's why I said "almost." If he'd wanted to run with it, he could have, and it was enough to make J. Reuben Clark worried.

what did president Clark say?

[Avatar4321]

That's why I said "almost." If he'd wanted to run with it, he could have, and it was enough to make J. Reuben Clark worried.

what did president Clark say?