Militaristic Hymns: Should We Put Them Aside?

[Bernard Gui]

Yesterday we sang hymn 250, "We Are All Enlisted." It's part of a group of hymns I fondly call the Militia Hymns

or the "Pump You Up Hymns".

 

These include "Onward Christian Soldiers," "Behold! A Royal Army," We're Marching On To Glory," "Who's On The

Lord's Side, Who?" "Let Us All Press On," and "Up Awake Ye Defenders Of Zion."

 

The texts often include imagery of war, weapons, defeat, victory, defiance. Given the current zeitgeist of love,

cooperation, and gentle persuasion, is it time for these hymns to be retired? Many of them originated or were adopted

from Protestant revival hymns in the times the church was under actual physical danger or when it was an insular

Utah-centered religion. 

 

Back in the 1970s, my parents served a mission in the Pueblo Indian reservations of Northern New Mexico. 

One Sunday they were singing "For The Strength Of The Hills" in a sacrament meeting in the

home of the Native American branch president. When they came to these words, they were quite embarrassed, given the ethnicity of the meeting's attendees:
 

"Here the wild bird swiftly darts on his quarry from the heights,

And the red untutored Indian seeketh here his rude delights,

But the Saints for Thy communion have sought the mountain sod,

For the strength of the hills we bless Thee, Our God, our fathers' God."

 

 

My mother wrote a letter to the First Presidency and Church Music Committee, and that verse was removed in the 1985 edition of LDS Hymns.

 

We might also note that the original words "Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame" were

changed in "Praise to the Man."

 

Also, given the very good chance that some day soon we will have missionaries in predominantly Muslim countries and the current exposure of

Muslim investigators to our missionary efforts, would it not be prudent to remove these "Crusader" military-style hymns from our hymnbooks?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[cinepro]

The hymns with offensive wording should definitely be altered or removed.  But for heaven's sake, most hymns are sung at the pace of a funeral dirge; don't get rid of the ones that actually imbue energy instead of draining it!

Edited October 27, 2014 by cinepro

[Calm]

Bravo, Mom!

[Scott Lloyd]

The wording of hymns has often been revised in the past, and I have no doubt it will be so in the future.

 

But some of the "militant" hymns were among my eldest son's favorite when he was younger, and I would be loathe to see them jettisoned altogether.

[Bernard Gui]

The hymns with offensive wording should definitely be altered or removed.  But for heaven's sake, most hymns are sung at the pace of a funeral dirge; don't get rid of the ones that actually imbue energy instead of draining it!

We don't sing hymns slowly in our ward....that's the choice of the chorister and organist. 

[cdowis]

 

The texts often include imagery of war, weapons, defeat, victory, defiance. Given the current zeitgeist of love,

cooperation, and gentle persuasion, is it time for these hymns to be retired? Many of them originated or were adopted

from Protestant revival hymns in the times the church was under actual physical danger or when it was an insular

Utah-centered religion. 

 

Back in the 1970s, my parents served a mission in the Pueblo Indian reservations of Northern New Mexico. 

One Sunday they were singing "For The Strength Of The Hills" in a sacrament meeting in the

home of the Native American branch president. When they came to these words, they were quite embarrassed, given the ethnicity of the meeting's attendees:

 

 

 

"Onward Christian Soldiers" is very embarrassing when sung in the South.  Da** yankees.

 

 

 

We don't sing hymns slowly in our ward....that's the choice of the chorister and organist.

 

My experience is that it is the choice of the organist -- the choister just follows along.  And many organists play every hymn at the same speed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by cdowis

[KevinG]

I am a trained conductor and trying to get the congregation and organist to keep an up tempo is an uphill battle in every ward I've attended.  

 

But the OP...  I don't think we should scrap soldier or military illustrations.  If it weren't for Crusaders, we would hardly be singing Christian Hymns, at least in Spain and France, today.  My ancestor Charles the Hammer Martel, would have some things to say about faith and the literal sword of justice.

[JLHPROF]

I don't believe we should put aside these hymns for being militaristic.  We ARE in a battle, one that's been going on since the premortal existence.

 

However, there is nothing wrong with being sensible and not singing certain hymns

"given the very good chance that some day soon we will have missionaries in predominantly Muslim countries and the current exposure of Muslim investigators to our missionary efforts, would it not be prudent to remove these "Crusader" military-style hymns from our hymnbooks"

 

 

But I don't like the false notion that there is anything wrong with these hymns - they just may not be appropriate for all meetings.  Still doesn't mean every hymn needs to be all peace love and cupcakes.

[Bernard Gui]

The wording of hymns has often been revised in the past, and I have no doubt it will be so in the future.

 

But some of the "militant" hymns were among my eldest son's favorite when he was younger, and I would be loathe to see them jettisoned altogether.

 

They are kind of peppy, but I attribute that to the music, not the text. They usually involve the dotted eighth note-sixteenth note rhythm...daaahdedaaahdedaaah....

that is energetic and jumpy. 

 

 

I'm more concerned with the words...

 

"Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war..."

"Let each heart be the heart of a lion, unyielding and proud as he roams."

"We'll scatter their troops at a glance."

"We are waiting now for soldiers, who'll volunteer?"

 

 

Would it be prudent to sing "Hope of Israel, Zion's Army...flash the sword above the foe...strike for Zion! Down with error!" "Every stroke disarms a foeman"

with Muslim investigators present or in a Muslim country?

Just wondering.

[Bernard Gui]

"Onward Christian Soldiers" is very embarrassing when sung in the South.  Da** yankees.

 

 

My experience is that it is the choice of the organist -- the choister just follows along.  And many organists play every hymn at the same speed.

I agree with both comments....I just wanted to be a bit more lenient on the chorister. Yes, the organist should be "up to speed."

[Bernard Gui]

I am a trained conductor and trying to get the congregation and organist to keep an up tempo is an uphill battle in every ward I've attended.  

 

But the OP...  I don't think we should scrap soldier or military illustrations.  If it weren't for Crusaders, we would hardly be singing Christian Hymns, at least in Spain and France, today.  My ancestor Charles the Hammer Martel, would have some things to say about faith and the literal sword of justice.

I think it has a lot to do with the technical abilities of the organist.

 

I believe the term "Crusaders" is used derisively in some Muslim circles to describe Christians. As we reach out to Muslims, do we want to be associated with the Crusades?

[Nevo]

Here's a line from one of my favorites, "Hope of Israel":

 

Strike for Zion, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke disarms a foeman;

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go.

 

Is there anything wrong with smiting those who reject our glad message and fight against Zion?

 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

They are kind of peppy, but I attribute that to the music, not the text. They usually involve the dotted eighth note-sixteenth note rhythm...daaahdedaaahdedaaah....

that is energetic and jumpy. 

 

 

I'm more concerned with the words...

 

"Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war..."

"Let each heart be the heart of a lion, unyielding and proud as he roams."

"We'll scatter their troops at a glance."

"We are waiting now for soldiers, who'll volunteer?"

 

 

Would it be prudent to sing "Hope of Israel, Zion's Army...flash the sword above the foe...strike for Zion! Down with error!" "Every stroke disarms a foeman"

with Muslim investigators present or in a Muslim country?

Just wondering.

If you think they're politically incorrect today, well, perhaps you remember the decades of the '60s and early '70s with their rampant anti-war sentiment. As a youth in that era, I found the militant hymns to be  embarrassing. Of course, I've modified my views to a degree in the intervening decades.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

 

Here's a line from one of my favorites, "Hope of Israel":

 

Strike for Zion, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke disarms a foeman;

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go.

 

Is there anything wrong with smiting those who reject our glad message and fight against Zion?

 

I detect a tongue-in-cheek tone here.

 

But the words are, of course, metaphorical and symbolize the battle of truth against error.

[USU78]

There's "a time for every season under Heaven."

 

Just because we may not presently be at war with men or governments doesn't mean we'll always be.

 

Music is a useful tool for affecting behavior change.

 

And if we are called upon to modify our behavior, tuning it to a more martial key, then these hymns will do nicely.

 

USU "Up awake, ye defenders of Zion!" 78

[KevinG]

My son in an Army Medic and a returned missionary.  His favorite verse of his favorite hymn reads:

 

“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea, 

With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me: 

As he died to make men holy, let us die* to make men free,  

While God is marching on.”

 

*original lyric

[Bernard Gui]

 

Here's a line from one of my favorites, "Hope of Israel":

 

Strike for Zion, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke disarms a foeman;

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go.

 

Is there anything wrong with smiting those who reject our glad message and fight against Zion?

 

The Jihadi version:

 

Strike for ISIS, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke beheads a foeman;

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go.

[Bernard Gui]

If you think they're politically incorrect today, well, perhaps you remember the decades of the '60s and early '70s with their rampant anti-war sentiment. As a youth in that era, I found the militant hymns to be  embarrassing. Of course, I've modified my views to a degree in the intervening decades.

Indeed. We all have settled down a bit since those glory days. 

Still, I can't imagine singing Hope of Israel in a Muslim country.

[KevinG]

The Jihadi version:

 

Strike for ISIS, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke beheads a foeman;

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go.

 

Moral equivalence hardly works here...  My sons unit conservatively helped 1000 Muslims with their schools and businesses, protected them from the Taliban and insured their safe transport.  Meanwhile they never shot anyone in aggression other than the single Afghan Police Officer who shot two of their soldiers in a surprise Blue on Green attack.  The Crusades were a limited number of campaigns to blunt the overrunning of Christian Europe by Islamic states who had been attacking and expanding for 500 years over thousands of battlefields. ISIS is committing more murder against Muslims than any other group.

 

I judge them not by their hymns but by their actions.

 

But if you really like Islamic victory songs here is a catchy little ditty:

 

[KevinG]

Indeed. We all have settled down a bit since those glory days. 

Still, I can't imagine singing Hope of Israel in a Muslim country.

 

One factor that may influence that...  it is illegal to preach Christianity or any other religion in most Muslim countries.

[Duncan]

I was thinking this very same thing last night except we were singing "Carry on" which when singing about Mountains and deserts on the prairies it loses its edge....!

[thesometimesaint]

Yesterday we sang hymn 250, "We Are All Enlisted." It's part of a group of hymns I fondly call the Militia Hymns

or the "Pump You Up Hymns".

 

These include "Onward Christian Soldiers," "Behold! A Royal Army," We're Marching On To Glory," "Who's On The

Lord's Side, Who?" "Let Us All Press On," and "Up Awake Ye Defenders Of Zion."

 

The texts often include imagery of war, weapons, defeat, victory, defiance. Given the current zeitgeist of love,

cooperation, and gentle persuasion, is it time for these hymns to be retired? Many of them originated or were adopted

from Protestant revival hymns in the times the church was under actual physical danger or when it was an insular

Utah-centered religion. 

 

Back in the 1970s, my parents served a mission in the Pueblo Indian reservations of Northern New Mexico. 

One Sunday they were singing "For The Strength Of The Hills" in a sacrament meeting in the

home of the Native American branch president. When they came to these words, they were quite embarrassed, given the ethnicity of the meeting's attendees:

 

 

My mother wrote a letter to the First Presidency and Church Music Committee, and that verse was removed in the 1985 edition of LDS Hymns.

 

We might also note that the original words "Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame" were

changed in "Praise to the Man."

 

Also, given the very good chance that some day soon we will have missionaries in predominantly Muslim countries and the current exposure of

Muslim investigators to our missionary efforts, would it not be prudent to remove these "Crusader" military-style hymns from our hymnbooks?

 

Yes! I was a military brat and served myself. It is long past time to reject the violent imagery of military conquest, let alone the cutting off arms of fellow human beings with swords.

[Scott Lloyd]

Yes! I was a military brat and served myself. It is long past time to reject the violent imagery of military conquest, let alone the cutting off arms of fellow human beings with swords.

"Disarms a foeman" need not mean that. It could mean that it renders a foeman without weaponry, which is what happens every time the natural man is converted and becomes a saint.

[bluebell]

"Disarms a foeman" need not mean that. It could mean that it renders a foeman without weaponry, which is what happens every time the natural man is converted and becomes a saint.

 

I've never heard of anyone interpreting 'disarms a foeman' to mean actually cutting off their arm.  

[Scott Lloyd]

I've never heard of anyone interpreting 'disarms a foeman' to mean actually cutting off their arm.  

Nor I -- until now.