Cognitive Dissonance?

[Hamilton Porter]

The universe could so easily have remained lifeless and simple - just physics and chemistry, just the scattered dust of the cosmic explosion that gave birth to time and space. The fact that it did not - the fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some ten billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing - is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice. And even that is not the end of the matter. Not only did evolution happen: it eventually led to beings capable of comprehending the process, and even of comprehending the process by which they comprehend it.

 

 

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

 

 

 

-Richard Dawkins

Edited October 20, 2014 by Hamilton Porter

[cinepro]

No?

[Bobbieaware]

Makes me wonder if he was raised without love, tenderness and affection in an emotionally sterile home.

[Boanerges]

I don't think he's indicating there was any higher power n the first quote, and "reading between the lines" in that instance would lead one astray since Dawkins is a an avowed and vocal atheist.

[Hamilton Porter]

I don't think he's indicating there was any higher power n the first quote, and "reading between the lines" in that instance would lead one astray since Dawkins is a an avowed and vocal atheist.

 

But it must be difficult to simultaneously believe this universe is wonderful and ultimately a pointless absurdity.

[Hamilton Porter]

Also:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/08/15/is-that-all-there-is#ixzz1Y90uZSS1

 

 

I have a friend, an analytic philosopher and convinced atheist, who told me that she sometimes wakes in the middle of the night, anxiously turning over a series of ultimate questions: “How can it be that this world is the result of an accidental big bang? How could there be no design, no metaphysical purpose? Can it be that every life—beginning with my own, my husband’s, my child’s, and spreading outward—is cosmically irrelevant?” 

[Storm Rider]

Some people like to think that being in awe is unacceptable for the greatest of human minds.  I have found that being on a mountain without the interference of electrical lighting of cities and the like, looking up into the immensity of the universe that I am overwhelmed, humbled, and hold in awe that which exists so plainly before me.  How does God not exist?  His footsteps are throughout the stars.   

[thesometimesaint]

According to his biography his was a normal British household in Kenya.

[Hamilton Porter]

According to his biography his was a normal British household in Kenya.

Is his biography worth reading?

 

Fiona Givens grew up in Kenya too. Maybe we'll ask her if she knew him. I can only imagine what he was like growing up.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Hamilton Porter

[EllenMaksoud]

Makes me wonder if he was raised without love, tenderness and affection in an emotionally sterile home.

Chapter 5 of "The God Delusion" may provide some insight to that question. His father was military, and the family was in Kenya during WWII. Just guessing but from some of the things he says in that book, I would guess that his father was over bearing, rigid, and unaffectionate and perhaps abusive. One of the campaigns he was involved in had a moto that stated, "There's probably no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life". This isn't of the extreme, God hater sentiment, that I had heard before.

 

And, Darwinism might be a fairly accurate description of what actually happened, except I insist that God caused it all.

[katherine the great]

Richard Dawkins is a brilliant scientist and I agree with 99% of what he says in his scientific journal articles (although he can be kind of a jerk in his peer reviews.)  However, I totally disagree with him on his secular writings--especially when it comes to God.  But his life's experiences have been completely different than mine and I respect his right to speak his mind.  I think he looks at religion as a net negative and as something that has interfered with scientific progress that would do much more good worldwide than what he views as superstition. Its interesting to me to actually watch him speak.  He is so very charmingly British: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

[Hamilton Porter]

Richard Dawkins is a brilliant scientist and I agree with 99% of what he says in his scientific journal articles (although he can be kind of a jerk in his peer reviews.)  However, I totally disagree with him on his secular writings--especially when it comes to God.  But his life's experiences have been completely different than mine and I respect his right to speak his mind.  I think he looks at religion as a net negative and as something that has interfered with scientific progress that would do much more good worldwide than what he views as superstition. Its interesting to me to actually watch him speak.  He is so very charmingly British: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

 

Isn't he adorable?

[WysteriaBlue]

I have also read and seen many of his talks...

He says he is quite capable of appreciating a concerto or work of art as his aesthetic senses are as good as any.  There is no reason he cannot appreciate beauty.  He is quite aware and senses acute.

"The world and the universe is an extremely beautiful place, and the more we understand about it the more beautiful does it appear."
— Richard Dawkins

 

I think he is also quite brilliant IN HIS AREA...

but as he says that God has no place in the lab....he really doesn't see the need for religion or faith or use of God of the Gaps...his mind is brilliant and very logical and scientific and all those wonderful things....

 

He sees the destruction and violence and divisions as to many religious groups making false claims and also fighting one another for supremacy of the 'best God' or most righteous peoples etc.. (all my words!) and all the division and yes death and violence in God's name....yes, this is true.  Death in the name of religious beliefs over time is beyond excusable in my opinion....

so, in what he is good at...he is very good.

 

But he is not a relationship or relational expert.  He is not a theologian or prophet, sociologist, or psychologist..  He does not "get" man's desire for connection (in my opinion) and need for purpose and spirituality and desire to be connected to one greater than themselves...  (although he tries to provide 'graphs' for human interaction and theological tendencies)  He admits that the human brain is still the most evolved thing and not fully understood.. YEAH.

 

Yes he is a confirmed and "outed" proud atheist, and I am glad of the work he does.

But I also see the need for more...for things that, I believe, might be beyond reason and evolution and logic, and I desire being present with the awe of God and the certitude of God in a world of only scientific laws.  I want more.

 

Richard Dawkins has his place in the universe.  So, let him have it.

We also each have our own unique perspective and rights as humans to want more than he can ever offer.   He does not scare me in any way nor intimidate me.  I think he makes some fine points.  But in the end, I believe he has blinders of his own, probably due to his extreme intelligence and charming British etiquette and lack of a need for love or God...  but no, he is not adorable. 

 

Wisdom does not just come from logic.  Intuition, faith, belief, common sense and love are not found in his labs or theories. 

I just don't think he is the bogeyman, Gollum, or harbinger of the destruction of faith, beauty, love, relationships, connection, sin or redemption, ethics, morality, and certainly not God.....

and anyway, what is that phrase about keeping your enemies closer?  To be aware of him and his ideas and theories just makes us wiser.

 

just my very uneducated opinion..and am probably wrong as usual...

(cue THE Nehor to bring the ax...)

wb

[katherine the great]

Isn't he adorable?

He isn't the cold, evil person that many religious people seem to think he is.  He is just an entirely rational person and when he gets a chance to meet God in person, I feel quite sure he will be singing a different tune.  

[katherine the great]

 

(cue THE Nehor to bring the ax...)

wb

Yeah--what does the Nehor have to say about Dawkins?  

[WysteriaBlue]

Yeah--what does the Nehor have to say about Dawkins?  

Don't know...but between my lack of writing skills, the subject matter and his ability to swing an ax....My hope is diminishing rapidly.

 

wb

[Calm]

.  He is just an entirely rational person

I had a friend who liked Star Trek just a wee too much and considered Vulcans the epitome of evolution. Me, I think Mr. Spock just uses the term "logic" when he wants to get out of doing or talking about something.

[WysteriaBlue]

I had a friend who liked Star Trek just a wee too much and considered Vulcans the epitome of evolution. Me, I think Mr. Spock just uses the term "logic" when he wants to get out of doing or talking about something.

 

Just an aside...do you know where the term "empath" came from?

Star Trek....wouldn't classify Dawkins in that group, huh?

 

Glad Nehor hasn't noticed our conversation....still hearing the theme song for Darth Vader in my head though....gnashing of teeth and his jaw dropping at our outlandishness...lol 

[katherine the great]

I had a friend who liked Star Trek just a wee too much and considered Vulcans the epitome of evolution. Me, I think Mr. Spock just uses the term "logic" when he wants to get out of doing or talking about something.

Spock maybe.  Dawkins?  I suspect that's just the way he thinks.

[Stone holm]

But it must be difficult to simultaneously believe this universe is wonderful and ultimately a pointless absurdity.

Where does he say it is a pointless absurdity. Very few atheistic humanists believe life is pointless, most believe it is quite precious in and of itself. We gain no adherents by misstating the beliefs of others.

[WysteriaBlue]

I believe Dawkins also said that it is such a unlikely probability that he exists at all in terms of all the things that had to happen in the past for him to exist, that he has every reason to live life to the fullest every day for the improbability that he should even be here and to be grateful for the opportunities that brought him to be.

 

MY WORDS since I could not find the exact quote...

But it certainly does show that he appreciates the life he lives and the beauty and existence that the chances that evolution offered to him....

 

I hope that I have done his ideas justice....Stone Holm, perhaps you could help me find his quote???

 

Respectfully,

wb

[Hamilton Porter]

Where does he say it is a pointless absurdity. Very few atheistic humanists believe life is pointless, most believe it is quite precious in and of itself. We gain no adherents by misstating the beliefs of others.

What is the difference between "purposeless" and "pointless"?

[WysteriaBlue]

pointless means to have little use or worth or senseless...

Dawkins, while making his point used the word "purposeless" which means lacking a plan or forethought or being used as part of a plan.

 

Dawkins was again stating his atheistic point that man is not a part of some greater plan as generated by a god or higher being...

 

I do not agree..I am just trying to show his bias and the difference as I understand it.

I think humans are part of a plan and have sense and are useful...

 

wb

[Hamilton Porter]

pointless means to have little use or worth or senseless...

Dawkins, while making his point used the word "purposeless" which means lacking a plan or forethought or being used as part of a plan.

 

Dawkins was again stating his atheistic point that man is not a part of some greater plan as generated by a god or higher being...

 

I do not agree..I am just trying to show his bias and the difference as I understand it.

I think humans are part of a plan and have sense and are useful...

 

wb

 

Congratulations! You just won the $5,000,000 cognitive dissonance resolution prize awarded by the American Humanist Association.

[WysteriaBlue]

I'd rather just have an ice cream cone with Calmoriah....chocolate please.

You can give the money to Nehor....he'll know how best to donate it...  I'm sure there are some goalposts that need re-setting and the poor to feed.

 

wb