Where Do You Rest Your Authority?

[DBMormon]

I am asking a black and white question to which I want a black and white answer first than you can elaborate.  I also have follow up questions.

 

Question = What entity would you say holds authority in your life?  Where do you look to decide what is right and wrong?

 

A.) The Church

B.) Parents, Bishop, PH leader

C.) scriptures

D.) yourself (this can be a combination of your conscience, the Holy Ghost, reasoning, logic, study) etc.

 

 

When there is a conflict between any two answers above from A - C and what you personally arrive at, how do you reconcile.  What if you came to a conflict so great between A-C and yourself you could not reconcile?  What about specifically a conflict between A and D?

 

 

Where we place our authority (what is our source of beliefs and positions) says a lot about us and where we are on the journey.  I am curious about others here and how they handle such ideas and thopughts and if they can stand back and see their own shift from one authority to another?

 

Once some answers start coming in I will share my own perspective with some quotes.

Edited October 18, 2014 by DBMormon

[Calm]

You left out God.

[Ahab]

You left out God.

He/they are included in option b, as our parents.

[Ahab]

glitch erased my comments, nevermind

Edited October 18, 2014 by Ahab

[smac97]

I am asking a black and white question to which I want a black and white answer first than you can elaborate.  I also have follow up questions.

 

Question = What entity would you say holds authority in your life?  Where do you look to decide what is right and wrong?

 

A.) The Church

B.) Parents, Bishop, PH leader

C.) scriptures

D.) yourself (this can be a combination of your conscience, the Holy Ghost, reasoning, logic, study) etc.

All of the above.

 

When there is a conflict between any two answers above from A - C and what you personally arrive at, how do you reconcile.

When A, B an C are more or less in harmony but in conflict with my view, I would give a very strong presumption and deference to A-C and subordinate D. I have a hard time conceptualizing a scenario where A, B and C are collectively wrong and I am right.

 

What if you came to a conflict so great between A-C and yourself you could not reconcile?  What about specifically a conflict between A and D?

I would not isolate the conflict to being between A and D. I would also seek input from B and C. Doing so would, I think, resolve the issue in almost all instances.

The collective and cumulative wisdom, experience, and spiritual insights of A, B and C are almost certainly going to be superior to D's wisdom, experience, and spiritual insights. While I do not exclude the possibility of an irreconcilable conflict, the possibility seems so remote as to not really merit much consideration.

 

Where we place our authority (what is our source of beliefs and positions) says a lot about us and where we are on the journey.  I am curious about others here and how they handle such ideas and thoughts and if they can stand back and see their own shift from one authority to another?

 

Once some answers start coming in I will share my own perspective with some quotes.

I am reminded of Eccl. 1:9-10:

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

"There is no new thing under the sun." I think of this verse when I come across discussions like this. We each of us would like to think that we are facing a problem unique to us. A problem without a precedent. A problem which requires us to blaze a new trail, to disregard conventional wisdom and to create a solution out of whole cloth.

But how often does this scenario arise vis-à-vis moral conundrums and the Restored Gospel? How often are Latter-day Saints put in a crisis where A, B and C are collectively arrayed against D, but A, B and C are wrong and D is right?  How often is there a "new thing under the sun?"  Something about which the Restored Gospel has not / cannot address through the cumulative input from A, B, C and D?

What about the priesthood ban? That is perhaps a possibility, but mostly an academic one.  

What about the morality of the exceptions to abortion (incest, rape, life or health of the mother in serious jeopardy, nonviable fetus)? This doesn't seem to be a possibility because the Church's position leaves the matter to D's discretion, after having consulted A, B and C.

What about embryonic stem-cell research? This does not seem to be a possibility because the Church has not taken a position on this issue, thus presently leaving the matter to D's discretion.

 

What about same-sex marriage?  That is perhaps a possibility, and perhaps the most likely real-world scenario to arise in which there is a conflict between A, B and C on the one hand and D on the other.

 

What about female ordination to the priesthood?  This is another good possibility because it too is a likely real-world scenario involving A, B and C contra D.

 

Thank you,

 

-Smac

Edited October 18, 2014 by smac97

[Kenngo1969]

If I perceive a conflict among any of the various options you've listed, then I must, of necessity, decide which source is "correct" and which is not.  The question then becomes:

 

Incorrect, as in, morally wrong?

 

Incorrect, as in, not necessarily morally wrong, but, nonetheless, not in harmony with God's individual plan for me?

 

And I can believe something that's not in harmony with what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches with respect to, for example, women's ordination to the Priesthood or same-sex marriage, as long as I don't advocate for such a position publicly.  Are you implying that I must engage in public advocacy of any personal views I might hold on those issues in order to be ... I don't know what word I would use ... say, somehow "authentic"?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[The Nehor]

I am asking a black and white question to which I want a black and white answer first than you can elaborate. 

 

This is forcing the question. Any time anyone does this they have an agenda.

 

Also, you left out God.

 

Once some answers start coming in I will share my own perspective with some quotes.

 

And there is the agenda. Maybe an ego trip where you tell us all how wrong we are? Or just a need to give sage advice to us?

[WysteriaBlue]

As I have too been searching for Truth among conflicting sources and conflicting views and searching my heart and the scriptures and doctrine...

There is one talk by Elder Uchtdorf that seems to recognize the need to discover Truth and use all the resources available to us...

May I just suggest re-reading this talk he gave.

 

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2013/01/what-is-truth?lang=eng

 

with respect,

wb

[mfbukowski]

D

The question is circular. How do WE decide anything?

WE decide.

Of course we look to others but in the final analysis we have to make decisions on our own authority

Edited October 18, 2014 by mfbukowski

[Ahab]

Short answer this time. All who have authority got it from someone who gave it to them and it is I who decides whether or not to acknowledge the authority they have been given. And I have been given the authority to do that while I am also being held accountable for the consequences.

[Mystery Meat]

D.

 

But that brings up more questions than it answers. Having seen others make determinations, it seems to me that it is often the case that people make up their minds based on a lot of things, basically prejudicing themselves, before giving the Lord a chance to give some input.

 

I also think there are some things the Lord is not going to reveal to us as individuals. We can get confirmation if we are ready and willing to receive it. One example being, should women have the priesthood. That is way out of our jurisdiction.

[LOSTONE]

God. God is the final authority in my life. Absolutely with out question it is and always will be God as the final authority.

In any conflicting thought, I would turn it to God in prayer for wisdom and insight. God knows more than many ever could so God can give me the best understanding in a conflict.

If the conflict is between church and scripture, I would have to really make an effort to understand where the church is coming and where ( the original conditions and meaning of ) scripture is coming from. Only then could I start to understand if the church is seeing things right or has fallen off track with principals of my faith.

It is important to me to always remember that God is above all in the universe and above all life. If I seek God’s insight, the conflict of man’s mind and heart will be resolved correctly. If I seek my own insight or man’s insight, I will only find more conflicts to confuse.

[Doctrine 612]

C D

[Judd]

You left out God.

This.

[DBMormon]

You left out God.

But how are you getting's god's message?  Church, parents, Holy Ghost?  You can say God but he is coming to you in some other way unless you have spoken face to face with him?

[DBMormon]

If I perceive a conflict among any of the various options you've listed, then I must, of necessity, decide which source is "correct" and which is not.  The question then becomes:

 

Incorrect, as in, morally wrong?

 

Incorrect, as in, not necessarily morally wrong, but, nonetheless, not in harmony with God's individual plan for me?

 

And I can believe something that's not in harmony with what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches with respect to, for example, women's ordination to the Priesthood or same-sex marriage, as long as I don't advocate for such a position publicly.  Are you implying that I must engage in public advocacy of any personal views I might hold on those issues in order to be ... I don't know what word I would use ... say, somehow "authentic"?

 

I am just saying where does the authority for your beleifs rest?  this is not a trick question

[DBMormon]

This.

see my response to his comment.  this answer misses the point.  God has never spoken to you face to face.  Whose voice when their is conflict do you trust is his voice.  

[DBMormon]

God. God is the final authority in my life. Absolutely with out question it is and always will be God as the final authority.

In any conflicting thought, I would turn it to God in prayer for wisdom and insight. God knows more than many ever could so God can give me the best understanding in a conflict.

If the conflict is between church and scripture, I would have to really make an effort to understand where the church is coming and where ( the original conditions and meaning of ) scripture is coming from. Only then could I start to understand if the church is seeing things right or has fallen off track with principals of my faith.

It is important to me to always remember that God is above all in the universe and above all life. If I seek God’s insight, the conflict of man’s mind and heart will be resolved correctly. If I seek my own insight or man’s insight, I will only find more conflicts to confuse.

so it is your personal interaction with him and not your parents or the Church's? that final authority rests?

[DBMormon]

D.

 

But that brings up more questions than it answers. Having seen others make determinations, it seems to me that it is often the case that people make up their minds based on a lot of things, basically prejudicing themselves, before giving the Lord a chance to give some input.

 

I also think there are some things the Lord is not going to reveal to us as individuals. We can get confirmation if we are ready and willing to receive it. One example being, should women have the priesthood. That is way out of our jurisdiction.

I agree but you seem to understand the the basic question which I will say more on in a few hours.

[DBMormon]

D

The question is circular. How do WE decide anything?

WE decide.

Of course we look to others but in the final analysis we have to make decisions on our own authority

I agree we decide.  But there is a big difference in how people answer.  Is the authority of one's beliefs, morals, standards, values extrinsic or intrinsic.  This is a huge question I have been thinking of lately.  The final answer is God by who do we trust ultimately to deliver God to us.  When you read answers here you see a few who ultimately say D but most seem uncomfortable placing "who has ultimate authority" over my beliefs in their  own hands.  If I asked that directly I would have gotten people saying D when it really wasn't.  I had to ask in a diffferent way

[DBMormon]

OK so here you go

 

I answered Mark with this

 

Is the authority of one's beliefs, morals, standards, values extrinsic or intrinsic.  This is a huge question I have been thinking of lately.  The final answer is God by who do we trust ultimately to deliver God to us.  When you read answers here you see a few who ultimately say D but most seem uncomfortable placing "who has ultimate authority" over my beliefs in their  own hands.  If I asked that directly I would have gotten people saying D when it really wasn't.  I had to ask in a diffferent way

 

 

There is no right or wrong answer.  at least not to me.  That said the answer says a lot about where we are.

 

http://www.faithformationlearningexchange.net/uploads/5/2/4/6/5246709/faith_development__faith_formation_-_keeley.pdf

 

Copy and pasting this doesn't work as it copies gibberish

 

but notice page 5 right hand column where it says "This is in Contrast to the 4th stage, Individuative-Reflective Faith."

 

Please read.  Where we rest our authority says something.  For all those who have gone through this stage I am betting this would resonate with them.  Of course if you disagree I would simply say you are not there.  (circular Argument)  but anyway I found this to at the very least speak to me very deeply.

 

Personally I choose D.  I still have faith and trust in and look for truth from A-C but in the end I choose what I hold as true and what I disacard as not my "truth" regardless of what A-C impose on me as their "Truth".  We might all say we do that.... but we all don't

 

Latter-day Saints are not asked to blindly accept everything they hear. We are encouraged to think and discover truth for ourselves. We are expected to ponder, to search, to evaluate, and thereby to come to a personal knowledge of the truth

 

This quote applies to me even if I am the only one discovering such truth and other's truth is in conflict  Not all would take this same stand.... again no right or wrong in my mind just thinking about it.  And No, this does not necessarily put one in apostasy or as a trouble maker (though it might for others)

Edited October 19, 2014 by DBMormon

[mfbukowski]

I agree we decide.  But there is a big difference in how people answer.  Is the authority of one's beliefs, morals, standards, values extrinsic or intrinsic. 

I don't know how anyone could answer that.

 

Is "what mama taught me" intrinsic or extrinsic?  At what point is "who we are" a product of all our experiences?  Where is the "self"?

 

I mean it's the whole nature vs nurture thing, reflected on subjectively.  It's free will vs determinism- you can go around and around forever on that one.

 

I dunno.  It's not the way I think about things, I guess, that's all.  I would not know how to answer the question in any way other than D.  

[CV75]

Assuming one is abiding in the Light of Christ (or ultimately in the Gift of the Holy Ghost), his ultimate authority is God. God uses various vehicles to represent His authority, such as scripture, the Church, prophets (priesthood), "moral authority," etc.

Agency, while ours and ours alone, is not authority. We choose whatever authority we follow, which may be of God or of something less. The authority we choose to follow either expands or contracts the agency we enjoy, but expand when the limitations of sin and death are removed by the Lord.

Responsibility is not authority, either. While God gives no responsibility without authority, we can still choose to assume responsibility without God as our authority. The more responsibility we assume without Him, the less agency we have to exercise because we retain the limitations imposed by sin and death.

Faith in God certainly enriches our exercise of both agency and responsibility, and as we exercise such faith we see the common thread between each vehicle representing His authority. This common thread is the straight and narrow way, the strait and narrow path, the plain road, the iron rod, etc. that we are to discern and follow. There is more of that than there is of confusion and contradiction, but that rests entirely in the eye of the beholder. This is why we seek “wisdom’s paths” – for example, it is wisdom that helps one know that he cannot see a mote through a beam.

There will be no contradiction between authentic vehicles of the Lord’s authority, and we ourselves are part of that dynamic inasmuch as we abide in Him.

Edited October 19, 2014 by CV75

[LOSTONE]

so it is your personal interaction with him and not your parents or the Church's? that final authority rests?

 

God is above my parents and my church. God is above all and therefore, my final authority I answer to. If there was to be someone higher than why am I am following God?

[CV75]

I think this talk gets to the crux of the question, which seems to touch on relativism: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/free-forever-to-act-for-themselves?lang=eng