Do Americans Know? Do Mormons Know?

[EllenMaksoud]

When I grew up, we were required to memorize part of the Declaration of Independence. Later we read and expected to write essays on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I doubt that many Americans today value any of those documents. Do Mormons know what we were deprived of that is in those documents? 

[thesometimesaint]

When I grew up, we were required to memorize part of the Declaration of Independence. Later we read and expected to write essays on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I doubt that many Americans today value any of those documents. Do Mormons know what we were deprived of that is in those documents? 

 

The Saints in America value them. Other countries probably not as much.

 

What some American Saints forget is that we are no longer at war with England, so the DoI is no longer a legal document.

[MiserereNobis]

Since Mormons view the US constitution as a divinely inspired document, is there ever a push for US style democracy to be implemented elsewhere?  Basically the entire democratic world, except for the US, follows the parliamentary system.  Has there ever been any statement (official or speculative or whatever) as to the merits of US style democracy vs British style democracy?

 

It intrigues me that in Mormonism a specific national government form (the US) has been singled out as being divine.  What are the practical implications of this?

 

Thanks.

[thesometimesaint]

Since Mormons view the US constitution as a divinely inspired document, is there ever a push for US style democracy to be implemented elsewhere?  Basically the entire democratic world, except for the US, follows the parliamentary system.  Has there ever been any statement (official or speculative or whatever) as to the merits of US style democracy vs British style democracy?

 

It intrigues me that in Mormonism a specific national government form (the US) has been singled out as being divine.  What are the practical implications of this?

 

Thanks.

Divinely inspired doesn't mean divine. An apt analogy would be that God inspired Beethoven to write his music, but neither Beethoven nor his music is Divinity.

 

I wouldn't carry it that far. We believe governments are established for the protection of its citizenry. That the US founders were inspired by God to do so, However that doesn't mean God dictated the US Constitution word for word. The LDS comfortably live in nearly every country on earth, and we believe in being subject to the laws and leaders of that country.

Edited March 7, 2014 by thesometimesaint

[Buzzard]

Since Mormons view the US constitution as a divinely inspired document, is there ever a push for US style democracy to be implemented elsewhere?  Basically the entire democratic world, except for the US, follows the parliamentary system.  Has there ever been any statement (official or speculative or whatever) as to the merits of US style democracy vs British style democracy?

 

It intrigues me that in Mormonism a specific national government form (the US) has been singled out as being divine.  What are the practical implications of this?

 

Thanks.

I don't think we view our bicameral legislature as being the only divinely ordained form of government. After all, in the millennium, we will be governed under a theocracy, with Christ as the King. 

Where most LDS that I know consider the constitution to be inspired is that it set up rights and procedures and milieu, for lack of a better word,  that allowed the restoration to take place and take hold. (I know you would have a different opinion) Even then, it was a very close thing a couple of times. Though there are those LDS that look at the constitution the same way a Southern Baptist looks at the bible. Gentleman I know says the only way to save the country is to go back to having males who own land be the only voters, and electing senators through state legislatures. 

[Freedom]

I have no desire to have the Canadian political system changed. The nephites did not have an american style government, and I doubt the divine government under Christ will have any such style of government. In fact, it will more likely be a benevolent dictatorship with the election of local officials. It is the heart of the electorate, not the structure of the elections that determines the course of a nation. 

[Yirgacheffe]

When I grew up, we were required to memorize part of the Declaration of Independence. Later we read and expected to write essays on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I doubt that many Americans today value any of those documents. Do Mormons know what we were deprived of that is in those documents? 

My kids have had to memorize parts of both the Declaration and the Constitution.  In our district both are part of the curriculum from 5th thru 8th grade, each year has required memorization and testing.  Through the years I've gotten small copies of the Declaration and Constitution from Cato, I gave each of my kids one when they started in 5th grade all 4 copies are rather worn out now and all my kids want to save them.

[Duncan]

I have no desire to have the Canadian political system changed. The nephites did not have an american style government, and I doubt the divine government under Christ will have any such style of government. In fact, it will more likely be a benevolent dictatorship with the election of local officials. It is the heart of the electorate, not the structure of the elections that determines the course of a nation. 

 

 

for one thing it takes much less time to elect the Prime Minister!!! 2 years of this flub dubbery to get the American Fella in the White house is too much!!!

[EllenMaksoud]

Since Mormons view the US constitution as a divinely inspired document, is there ever a push for US style democracy to be implemented elsewhere?  Basically the entire democratic world, except for the US, follows the parliamentary system.  Has there ever been any statement (official or speculative or whatever) as to the merits of US style democracy vs British style democracy?

 

It intrigues me that in Mormonism a specific national government form (the US) has been singled out as being divine.  What are the practical implications of this?

 

Thanks.

From my conversations with people that are not American, I sometimes wonder if the UK form of government is not better. The US does not have a democracy, we have an Oligarchy. I am not that opposed to that because I doubt that Americans at large are capable of running the Government. The issue plaguing America today is that several laws regulating the operation of the government, one of them being the law that restricts contributions to political campaigns is gone. So, now we have large corporations running the government. And, since the media is an organ of the large corporations, it starts to appear as if the actual government is the Media. The Media tells us what to eat, wear, drive and also determines acceptable moral conduct for us.

[Calm]

I don't think we view our bicameral legislature as being the only divinely ordained form of government. After all, in the millennium, we will be governed under a theocracy, with Christ as the King. 

Where most LDS that I know consider the constitution to be inspired is that it set up rights and procedures and milieu, for lack of a better word,  that allowed the restoration to take place and take hold. (I know you would have a different opinion) Even then, it was a very close thing a couple of times. Though there are those LDS that look at the constitution the same way a Southern Baptist looks at the bible. Gentleman I know says the only way to save the country is to go back to having males who own land be the only voters, and electing senators through state legislatures.

Would love to know how he justifies excluding women landowners. What does he have to say about black landowners, do they get a 2/3 counted vote or no vote at all?

[Calm]

Having lived in Canada and the US. I would keep and throw out aspects of both. Definitely limit campaigning to six weeks.

[thesometimesaint]

From my conversations with people that are not American, I sometimes wonder if the UK form of government is not better. The US does not have a democracy, we have an Oligarchy. I am not that opposed to that because I doubt that Americans at large are capable of running the Government. The issue plaguing America today is that several laws regulating the operation of the government, one of them being the law that restricts contributions to political campaigns is gone. So, now we have large corporations running the government. And, since the media is an organ of the large corporations, it starts to appear as if the actual government is the Media. The Media tells us what to eat, wear, drive and also determines acceptable moral conduct for us.

 

No; we are a republic madam if we can keep it. Sure media has it influence. We need to be discriminating in whom we use a media source for our political/governmental ideas. There is always the axiom of human see human do.

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't think we view our bicameral legislature as being the only divinely ordained form of government. After all, in the millennium, we will be governed under a theocracy, with Christ as the King. 

Where most LDS that I know consider the constitution to be inspired is that it set up rights and procedures and milieu, for lack of a better word,  that allowed the restoration to take place and take hold. (I know you would have a different opinion) Even then, it was a very close thing a couple of times. Though there are those LDS that look at the constitution the same way a Southern Baptist looks at the bible. Gentleman I know says the only way to save the country is to go back to having males who own land be the only voters, and electing senators through state legislatures. 

Perhaps an income over $25,000 a year would be a good place to start. We are increasingly being burdened by those who have never held a job, are capable, and do not intend to get one. Some Mormons seem to have forgotten the 1st Amendment.  Speaking out against certain activities of our government, now and in the past, can most certainly cause one pain. I do not mention specifics because to do so would cause this thread to be locked

[thesometimesaint]

Having lived in Canada and the US. I would keep and throw out aspects of both. Definitely limit campaigning to six weeks.

 

I'd like to see the US more like the parliamentarian socialist democracies of Europe with strict limits of six week campaigns. But I don't believe we'll ever get there.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The Saints in America value them. Other countries probably not as much.

 

What some American Saints forget is that we are no longer at war with England, so the DoI is no longer a legal document.

It is a document of sovernty saint Which you and yours on the left seem to forget. Totaly straw man/ red hearing to think that anyone ( I could be wrong here as 1/2 the people of a certain political bent don't even know that the earth circles around the earth once a year per a recent poll) still thinks we are at war with England.

[The Nehor]

Since Mormons view the US constitution as a divinely inspired document, is there ever a push for US style democracy to be implemented elsewhere?  Basically the entire democratic world, except for the US, follows the parliamentary system.  Has there ever been any statement (official or speculative or whatever) as to the merits of US style democracy vs British style democracy?

 

It intrigues me that in Mormonism a specific national government form (the US) has been singled out as being divine.  What are the practical implications of this?

 

Thanks.

It is not divine. God "suffered" it to come into being for specific purposes. He allowed it. He certainly did not dictate it. I would be uncomfortable imagining God putting His divine stamp of approval on the 3/5ths of a person clause.

[EllenMaksoud]

My kids have had to memorize parts of both the Declaration and the Constitution.  In our district both are part of the curriculum from 5th thru 8th grade, each year has required memorization and testing.  Through the years I've gotten small copies of the Declaration and Constitution from Cato, I gave each of my kids one when they started in 5th grade all 4 copies are rather worn out now and all my kids want to save them.

This is as it should be.   I love Mormons, but believe I drive them bats at times. At least they keep talking to me.

Edited March 7, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[thesometimesaint]

Perhaps an income over $25,000 a year would be a good place to start. We are increasingly being burdened by those who have never held a job, are capable, and do not intend to get one.

 

The people who actually fit that description are rare.

[The Nehor]

I'd like to see the US more like the parliamentarian socialist democracies of Europe with strict limits of six week campaigns. But I don't believe we'll ever get there.

That has its own downsides. While I recognize the advantages in my experience switching to parliamentary procedures depersonalizes politics, gives parties power with little check for individual descent, and removes the ideal of every citizen having a representative personally responsible for their welfare.

[thesometimesaint]

It is a document of sovernty saint Which you and yours on the left seem to forget. Totaly straw man/ red hearing to think that anyone ( I could be wrong here as 1/2 the people of a certain political bent don't even know that the earth circles around the earth once a year per a recent poll) still thinks we are at war with England.

The DoI was a declaration of war. Fighting, and wining that war along with the War of 1812, established our sovereignty.

 

Our form of government is established in the Constitution. Prior to that we were governed by the Articles of Confederation.

 

Those that think that the sun revolves around the earth is about 1/4 of US adults. They are of no distinct political bent.

 

No doubt that some still believe we're at war with England. But they are wrong just like those that believe the sun orbits the earth.

[thesometimesaint]

That has its own downsides. While I recognize the advantages in my experience switching to parliamentary procedures depersonalizes politics, gives parties power with little check for individual descent, and removes the ideal of every citizen having a representative personally responsible for their welfare.

 

Every form of government has its problems. I'd go for a monarchy as long as that monarch is Christ.

[Garden Girl]

You make me laugh, Ellen... You say you don't want to state some specifics because that would be political and perhaps get the thread closed... yet this thread is nothing if not political.  And some of your posts contain comments that you throw out there that are your political opinions about government, people, etc as if they were actual facts... some of which I do not agree with, but haven't the energy to enter into a debate because I'm surprised this thread is still going... 

 

GG

[The Nehor]

Every form of government has its problems. I'd go for a monarchy as long as that monarch is Christ.

I already joined the monarchy a while back. I just wish they would get around to denouncing and destroying the silly government we have now.

Edited March 7, 2014 by The Nehor

[teddyaware]

You make me laugh, Ellen... You say you don't want to state some specifics because that would be political and perhaps get the thread closed... yet this thread is nothing if not political.  And some of your posts contain comments that you throw out there that are your political opinions about government, people, etc as if they were actual facts... some of which I do not agree with, but haven't the energy to enter into a debate because I'm surprised this thread is still going... 

 

GG

Not exactly. There's a big difference between discussing the proper role of government, as revealed by revelation from God and set forth in the scriptures (non-political), and discussing the rancorous and divisive political positions and battles of the political parties (political). The only problem is that the Constitution has been ignored, circumvented and twisted by politicians and their supporters for so long that even bringing up the references to the proper role of government in the scriptures has become controversial and liable to get one banned. It's kind of strange that now even quoting from the Doctrine and Covenants on a Mormon dialogue board is controversial and risky. The political correctness of our age is even seeping into the consciousness of the church.

Edited March 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[EllenMaksoud]

The DoI was a declaration of war. Fighting, and wining that war along with the War of 1812, established our sovereignty.

 

Our form of government is established in the Constitution. Prior to that we were governed by the Articles of Confederation.

 

Those that think that the sun revolves around the earth is about 1/4 of US adults. They are of no distinct political bent.

 

No doubt that some still believe we're at war with England. But they are wrong just like those that believe the sun orbits the earth.

It is now easy to see that the indoctrination of young Americans in the 40's through the 60's was callous programming.  Though I can not remember the man's name, he told me that the purpose of public education was to produce a technically educated, compliant work force. Shockingly, liberal education caused the young to start asking uncomfortable questions, and when someone tried to shut them up, they became the Hippies.

 

Now days to speak out against the Military/Industrial complex will get you into a lot of trouble as a Mormon. As a Mormon, the sole focus should be on Jesus the Christ and his work to save the billions.  Though no one has tied me to a chair and beat me, I have learned that there are penalties for not towing the Mormon political line.