rockpond Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 This was probably expected by most of us here, but the Ordain Women group and their supporters are planning to be in the standby line at the Priesthood session this coming April 5. http://fox13now.com/2014/03/06/mormon-women-plan-to-request-tickets-to-historically-male-only-meeting-again/ Link to comment
Calm Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 It will be interesting to see if numbers grow, stay the same or go down. I expect go up this time around and maybe a few more, but then drop. Link to comment
Buzzard Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 There is a way we do things in the church. And announcing our petition through the Salt Lake Tribune and other local news outlets is not it. They state that they expect 500 women to show up, but their website has a tad over 200 profiles, a third or more are from men, and about a third, judging by either use of past tense or by overt statements, are either inactive or former members or non-LDS expressing sympathy. Ironically, there is a way for women to become Priestesses, but it involves full faithfulness, and attaining their endowment and enduring to the end, not issuing press releases. And men only get to keep it beyond mortality if they tread the same exact path. Otherwise, it's a very temporary "advantage". Link to comment
Calm Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 , but their website has a tad over 200 profiles, a third or more are from men, and about a third, judging by either use of past tense or by overt statements, are either inactive or former members or non-LDS expressing sympathy. Which contradicts their public statement about their membership and thus even if I agreed with everything else they were doing, I would refuse to be a part of it." Similarly, each profile on Ordain Women is an expression of sincere faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and an equally sincere explanation of why each individual hopes for women’s ordination.... “We’re Mormon,” the pictures say to visitors of the site. “Can’t you see?”. Link to comment
rockpond Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Which contradicts their public statement about their membership and thus even if I agreed with everything else they were doing, I would refuse to be a part of it. Have they said somewhere that profiles = members? They also have nearly 2,000 followers on Facebook. I'm not sure how they determine membership. Link to comment
rockpond Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 There is a way we do things in the church. And announcing our petition through the Salt Lake Tribune and other local news outlets is not it. They state that they expect 500 women to show up, but their website has a tad over 200 profiles, a third or more are from men, and about a third, judging by either use of past tense or by overt statements, are either inactive or former members or non-LDS expressing sympathy. Ironically, there is a way for women to become Priestesses, but it involves full faithfulness, and attaining their endowment and enduring to the end, not issuing press releases. And men only get to keep it beyond mortality if they tread the same exact path. Otherwise, it's a very temporary "advantage". Sometimes petitioning can accomplish things. This is from Wikipedia's page on "Black People and Mormonism": In 1971, three African American Mormon men petitioned then-President Joseph Fielding Smith to consider ways to keep black families involved in the church and also re-activate the descendants of black pioneers.[71] As a result, Smith directed three apostles to meet with the men on a weekly basis until, on October 19, 1971, an organization called the Genesis Group was established as an auxiliary unit of LDS Church to meet the needs of black Mormons.[72] The first president of the Genesis Group was Ruffin Bridgeforth, who also became the first black Latter-day Saint to be ordained a high priest after the priesthood ban was lifted later in the decade.[73] Obviously, they weren't protesting a policy. They were just asking how things could improve within the policy... admittedly different than the ordain women group. But, nevertheless, and example of a successful petitioning of the Prophet from outside of the church hierarchy. And then there is also this quote from that same Wikipedia page. These protests ended in disciplinary action. Though I don't really see the Ordain Women movement as identical to this, it is interesting. There were some LDS church members who protested against the church's discriminatory practices. Two LDS church members, Douglas A. Wallace and Byron Merchant, were excommunicated by the LDS church (1976 and 1977 respectively) after criticizing the church's discrimatory practices.[84][85][86][87] LDS church member Grant Syphers objected to the church's racial policies and, as a consequence, his stake president refused to give Sypher permission to enter the temple. The president said, "Anyone who could not accept the Church's stand on Negroes...could not go to the temple".[88] Link to comment
Gray Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Which contradicts their public statement about their membership and thus even if I agreed with everything else they were doing, I would refuse to be a part of it." Similarly, each profile on Ordain Women is an expression of sincere faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and an equally sincere explanation of why each individual hopes for women’s ordination.... “We’re Mormon,” the pictures say to visitors of the site. “Can’t you see?”. Considering only about 1/3 of church members are active, it seems like they're doing pretty well for themselves. Link to comment
Gray Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 There is a way we do things in the church. And announcing our petition through the Salt Lake Tribune and other local news outlets is not it. They state that they expect 500 women to show up, but their website has a tad over 200 profiles, a third or more are from men, and about a third, judging by either use of past tense or by overt statements, are either inactive or former members or non-LDS expressing sympathy. Ironically, there is a way for women to become Priestesses, but it involves full faithfulness, and attaining their endowment and enduring to the end, not issuing press releases. And men only get to keep it beyond mortality if they tread the same exact path. Otherwise, it's a very temporary "advantage". Apparently they have tried to send letters only to have them returned. Link to comment
bluebell Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Considering only about 1/3 of church members are active, it seems like they're doing pretty well for themselves. I think the contradiction that Cal is speaking of is where they out right state that all the profiles on OW are a statement of faith in the LDS church from church members while having profiles on there from women who have actually be excommunicated from the church or who no longer consider themselves a part of the faith. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Have they said somewhere that profiles = members? They also have nearly 2,000 followers on Facebook. I'm not sure how they determine membership.Have they said somewhere that profiles = members? They also have nearly 2,000 followers on Facebook. I'm not sure how they determine membership.See the quote in my post, it is about the profiles. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I think the contradiction that Cal is speaking of is where they out right state that all the profiles on OW are a statement of faith in the LDS church from church members while having profiles on there from women who have actually be excommunicated from the church or who no longer consider themselves a part of the faith.Or who never were but are interested in it because of friends or family.I dont have a problem with nonmembers being members, it is how they represent them.That quote was not the first I've seen them do that. Link to comment
Gray Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I think the contradiction that Cal is speaking of is where they out right state that all the profiles on OW are a statement of faith in the LDS church from church members while having profiles on there from women who have actually be excommunicated from the church or who no longer consider themselves a part of the faith. I dare say you'd find some similar examples of those featured on the I'm a Mormon campaign. Link to comment
bluebell Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I dare say you'd find some similar examples of those featured on the I'm a Mormon campaign. There are excommunicated and ex Mormons in the I'm a Mormon campaign? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 What is their policy on transvestites that should be able to go in joining the movement in a show of solidarity? I am asking for a........friend......yeah. Link to comment
Buckeye Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 There are excommunicated and ex Mormons in the I'm a Mormon campaign? Quite possibly. The campaign has been going for a few years now. I have to believe some former members put up a profile before leaving the church. Perhaps there is a system in place to remove those profiles, but I my guess is they stay up. Link to comment
bluebell Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Quite possibly. The campaign has been going for a few years now. I have to believe some former members put up a profile before leaving the church. Perhaps there is a system in place to remove those profiles, but I my guess is they stay up. I assumed that Gray was suggesting there are ex and excommunicated mormons with profiles on the Mormon campaign, who were such when they put the profiles up. I assume that because Gray is suggesting that the 'offending' OW profiles are probably similar to ones on I'm a Mormon. Maybe i'm assuming wrong though. Link to comment
rockpond Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 See the quote in my post, it is about the profiles. Yeah - I understand now. Sorry, I misread your comment. Link to comment
Buzzard Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I dare say you'd find some similar examples of those featured on the I'm a Mormon campaign.I guess the law of averages might mean a smattering of members who have gone less active or even departed the faith. If they requested that their "I'm a Mormon" clip be deleted, I am sure that would be honored. I would suppose that an equal or greater portion of the OW profiles and/or Facebook members that have remained active (and read a few dozen profiles, then judge for yourself how many are current, faithful, female members) have considered their position and decided that sustaining the prophet, rather than following Sister Kelly and her merry band, was the wisest choice and would not today choose to be affiliated with OW. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 There are excommunicated and ex Mormons in the I'm a Mormon campaign?And nonmormons? Link to comment
Calm Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yeah - I understand now. Sorry, I misread your comment.No problem. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Quite possibly. The campaign has been going for a few years now. I have to believe some former members put up a profile before leaving the church. Perhaps there is a system in place to remove those profiles, but I my guess is they stay up.Undoubtedly, but they weren't put up when they were already exed or had left.The profiles themselves are not saying "I am a Mormon" and then by detective work we find out they aren't; the profiles are saying "I am excommunicated", "I am resigned", "i have never been a member".Are there any like that in the "I am a Mormon" campaign? Link to comment
Calm Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I guess the law of averages might mean a smattering of members who have gone less active or even departed the faith. If they requested that their "I'm a Mormon" clip be deleted, I am sure that would be honored. I would suppose that an equal or greater portion of the OW profiles and/or Facebook members that have remained active (and read a few dozen profiles, then judge for yourself how many are current, faithful, female members) have considered their position and decided that sustaining the prophet, rather than following Sister Kelly and her merry band, was the wisest choice and would not today choose to be affiliated with OW.They can ask for their profiles to be removed. That policy is in place it would seem to reassure those who might be fearful of discipline from leaders as opposed to changing their mind about the issues. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 They can ask for their profiles to be removed. That policy is in place it would seem to reassure those who might be fearful of discipline from leaders as opposed to changing their mind about the issues.I'm amazed they put their profiles up to begin with. Apparently this situation is not going away. The church is a democracy now where the people can and do speak, especially more forthrightly now, since excommunicating them is not good for PR. Maybe if the days of being a peculiar church weren't over, this would never happen. Link to comment
ERayR Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm amazed they put their profiles up to begin with. Apparently this situation is not going away. The church is a democracy now where the people can and do speak, especially more forthrightly now, since excommunicating them is not good for PR. Maybe if the days of being a peculiar church weren't over, this would never happen. I certainly hope the days of this being a peculiar Church are not over. That would mean the Church were in apostasy. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 The church is a democracy now where the people can and do speak If so, that would be very sad. I prefer my faith to be led by Christ, not opinion. Link to comment
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