Thinly Veiled Misogyny

[EllenMaksoud]

I was just on Facebook trying to do my calling ... shoulda just taken a break there too.

 

The LDS Sister Missionaries put up a post that said, in part, that the Sister Missionaries to not have the responsibilities that Elder Missionaries have.     Just to be clear, if it had been Elders instead of Sisters, I never would have talked to them. And I was once told by a Stake President that Sisters are 40% more effective.  Why Sister Missionaries would write such self effacing poppy ****, I have no idea.

[Calm]

What specifically are they saying? Somethings Sisters, whether missionaries or not, cannot do simply because they dont have the Priesthood. Are you sure they are not referring to such things?

[thesometimesaint]

I was just on Facebook trying to do my calling ... shoulda just taken a break there too.

 

The LDS Sister Missionaries put up a post that said, in part, that the Sister Missionaries to not have the responsibilities that Elder Missionaries have.     Just to be clear, if it had been Elders instead of Sisters, I never would have talked to them. And I was once told by a Stake President that Sisters are 40% more effective.  Why Sister Missionaries would write such self effacing poppy ****, I have no idea.

 

I love our sister Missionaries. They are a great asset, and we would loose half what makes our Church so great. However there are somethings the sister Missionaries simply can't do because they lack the Priesthood.

[Garden Girl]

What specifically are they saying? Somethings Sisters, whether missionaries or not, cannot do simply because they dont have the Priesthood. Are you sure they are not referring to such things?

 

 

I love our sister Missionaries. They are a great asset, and we would loose half what makes our Church so great. However there are somethings the sister Missionaries simply can't do because they lack the Priesthood.

 

Exactly... the Sisters can't baptize... they can't bless the sacrament... they don't have the responsibilities of a zone leader, etc etc

But I agree that they are able to reach many who might not be as comfortable with the Elders.  They are wonderful and a complementary asset to our missionary efforts.

 

GG 

[juliann]

I was just on Facebook trying to do my calling ... shoulda just taken a break there too.

 

The LDS Sister Missionaries put up a post that said, in part, that the Sister Missionaries to not have the responsibilities that Elder Missionaries have.     Just to be clear, if it had been Elders instead of Sisters, I never would have talked to them. And I was once told by a Stake President that Sisters are 40% more effective.  Why Sister Missionaries would write such self effacing poppy ****, I have no idea.

Why do you react so much to what random people say??  Effectiveness has little to do with "responsibilities". You are comparing job descriptions to effectiveness. They are there to bring the gospel to people. What the heck difference does it make how each person goes about doing that as long as it is effective?

 

Misogyny has meaning. It is meant to describe something real and important to women. Don't be one of those that strips the word of any meaning. 

Definition of MISOGYNY

:  a hatred of women

Edited March 1, 2014 by juliann

[The Nehor]

There is the statement that full-time missionary work for them is not a responsibility like it is for those who hold the Priesthood. It is not a duty; it is voluntary. Is that what they meant?

[rpn]

And last year, a form of leader women missionaries was created to serve the sister missionaries like the zone leaders have in the past.  They are part of the zone leader conferences.  I don't recall what their title became, and I understand their duties may be different by mission.

[halconero]

Having differing responsibilities is not the same as having less responsibility.

[EllenMaksoud]

After being around the church for three years, long enough to see what's what, I have come to the conclusion that women are just as valuable and empowered as men. As a matter of fact ...

 

I had 3 1/2 months of Missionary Discussions with the Sisters, and when I returned to Oregon, I had 7 more because of some Man. That was fine and I took it, but I just have to say that to have a Sister Missionary making self depricating statements about women just is not tolerable. People were always making me not say things critical of myself until I got it, so now when I hear it ...

[juliann]

If you are going to deprecate these slsters, please give them the courtesy of using their exact words.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Exactly... the Sisters can't baptize... they can't bless the sacrament... they don't have the responsibilities of a zone leader, etc etc

But I agree that they are able to reach many who might not be as comfortable with the Elders.  They are wonderful and a complementary asset to our missionary efforts.

 

GG

But what so many do is carry such a great spirit, that many Elders are dying with envy. There are so many sister missionaries in the field now, they will in time transform our faith, by shear numbers alone. We will be feeding two tomorrow, and we are excited the Spirit of God, they will bring with them.

[EllenMaksoud]

But what so many do is carry such a great spirit, that many Elders are dying with envy. There are so many sister missionaries in the field now, they will in time transform our faith, by shear numbers alone. We will be feeding two tomorrow, and we are excited the Spirit of God, they will bring with them.

Well, I have no issue with baptizing. How can I handle a 270lb guy in the tub? Not even two of us could do it.   I don't know, the rest of it just feels a bit too much like the c**p women have to put up with in Islam.

 

I don't know why I am so crabby, can't even stand myself.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Well, I have no issue with baptizing. How can I handle a 270lb guy in the tub? Not even two of us could do it.   I don't know, the rest of it just feels a bit too much like the c**p women have to put up with in Islam.

 

I don't know why I am so crabby, can't even stand myself.

The manner in which I say they will transform our church is through, great humility and influence. They do not need to baptize or confirm others members to do that...also most will someday become mothers, and what their sons learn of being loving and kind and humble will be the lion share of what their mothers teach them. Just as I learned the lion share of these things from my mother. God bless her, and also on the effect she had on my father, I know most think their parents are the best...but in my case it is true.

 

This is why I wrote this for my mother...

 

See link and read

 

"When my Mother Prays"

Edited March 2, 2014 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Kenngo1969]

With due respect, Ma'am, what does it say if you believe these Sisters need you to stick up for them (albeit in Cyber space)?  Do you believe they: (1) are too dumb to know that they're being put upon by the men of the Church? or (2) defenseless, such that they need you to speak/stick up for them? Aren't you doing here essentially the same thing that you apparently are accusing the men of the Church of doing?

 

Just food for thought.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

With due respect, Ma'am, what does it say if you believe these Sisters need you to stick up for them (albeit in Cyber space)?  Do you believe they: (1) are too dumb to know that they're being put upon by the men of the Church? or (2) defenseless, such that they need you to speak/stick up for them? Aren't you doing here essentially the same thing that you apparently are accusing the men of the Church of doing?

 

Just food for thought.

She comes from a faith that treated women as second class humans, this could have some bearing of the topic. Also it seems that with he posts you are trying to be her authority of how she "should" feel.

[saemo]

I was just on Facebook trying to do my calling ... shoulda just taken a break there too.

The LDS Sister Missionaries put up a post that said, in part, that the Sister Missionaries to not have the responsibilities that Elder Missionaries have. Just to be clear, if it had been Elders instead of Sisters, I never would have talked to them. And I was once told by a Stake President that Sisters are 40% more effective. Why Sister Missionaries would write such self effacing poppy ****, I have no idea.

My chosen career is male dominated, and I have been assumed to be a secretary in professional business conferences and comments made about my gender over the years, by men.

Now, where I work the majority of leadership are women, who still view the men in my profession as better at what we do. The number of young women who choose this career is still very, very low. I've had women tell me they aren't smart enough.

It is difficult in an environment where male dominance is the norm for women to see themselves as equal. Self deprecation becomes a means of survival. No one wants to be viewed as the b*tch with a chip on her shoulder!

Edited March 2, 2014 by saemo

[Kenngo1969]

She comes from a faith that treated women as second class humans, this could have some bearing of the topic. Also it seems that with he posts you are trying to be her authority of how she "should" feel.  [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969]

With due respect, if the bolded portion were so, why did I ask questions rather than making a statement or statements?  By contrast, by saying that the Sisters' statement is rooted in misogyny,isn't she telling them how to feel?  If we were talking about an interaction that had involved her and that had implicated misogyny, you're absolutely right: she would be the ultimate authority on that.  However, she seems to be claiming authority to speak for the sisters ... telling us how they should feel, rather than telling us how she feels. 

[halconero]

After being around the church for three years, long enough to see what's what, I have come to the conclusion that women are just as valuable and empowered as men. As a matter of fact ...

 

I had 3 1/2 months of Missionary Discussions with the Sisters, and when I returned to Oregon, I had 7 more because of some Man. That was fine and I took it, but I just have to say that to have a Sister Missionary making self depricating statements about women just is not tolerable. People were always making me not say things critical of myself until I got it, so now when I hear it ...

 

Just out of curiosity Ellen, were the 7 lessons you had upon returning to Oregon before, or after your baptism? If they came after, then that's standard practice for all converts. They're called "New Member Lessons" and are generally taught by the ward mission leader and the ward missionaries (local people, not the full-time missionaries) and home/visiting teachers. They're a review of all the initial lessons, plus a few more. I'm doing them right now with a recent convert.

 

It isn't to demean the new member, but help them go over doctrine they might have missed the first time through. It also attempts to strengthen relationships between the new member and the ward.

 

That might not be your case, and if so, I'm sorry.

[Calm]

She comes from a faith that treated women as second class humans, this could have some bearing of the topic. Also it seems that with he posts you are trying to be her authority of how she "should" feel.

I don't read any comment about what she is supposed to be feeling, just about the implications of what she is saying.

[EllenMaksoud]

Just out of curiosity Ellen, were the 7 lessons you had upon returning to Oregon before, or after your baptism? If they came after, then that's standard practice for all converts. They're called "New Member Lessons" and are generally taught by the ward mission leader and the ward missionaries (local people, not the full-time missionaries) and home/visiting teachers. They're a review of all the initial lessons, plus a few more. I'm doing them right now with a recent convert.

 

It isn't to demean the new member, but help them go over doctrine they might have missed the first time through. It also attempts to strengthen relationships between the new member and the ward.

 

That might not be your case, and if so, I'm sorry.

My whole life I have had to fight like a tiger to just survive, and I had finally given up right before I met the Sisters. I was done, with all its implications. I was full on Muslim and would not have talked to Elders at Kirtland, plus I hated males anyhow. The Sisters were competent and met me at every point of objection. By the time I left Kirtland, I had a full on spiritual buzz going.

 

So, it was a great surprise to get to Portland and have some male put me through 7 more months of discussions. I felt and still feel that my experience with the prophet Muhammad PBUH was pivotal in my accepting what other wise would have felt like the fantastic tales of the Mormons. We have covered this before.

 

I had to learn to be stubborn and hard before I was out of diapers and suddenly these "Mormons" wanted me to trust and be meek. It took time to do it but prayer and supplication and the special care of Heavenly Father eventually helped me to drop those old guards. In those three years, that man that tormented me and I eventually stopped waring and have become friends.

 

From here on out, you can just imagine smoke rolling off your screen and every other word being something you have never heard. I can't help it just writing about this makes me mad all over again. I guess I just have to get it out. Sorry.

 

The dark spot of all this was some "loving" people kept wanting to get me Temple privileges. I cried at my Baptismal interview when I found out that there would be no Temple. Still, tears stop and we get over things, other wise my stepfather would have killed me very early on. Not a week went by when some well meaning fool would be chatting me up over all this and each time, it just added another source of pain. Psychologists call that re-traumatization and it has gone on ever since I got back to Portland. The well meaning, I suppose, even paid nearly $1000 to get a Karyotype test and genetic counseling. I should be thankful, but I just hurt too much.  I sometimes wish my car and I were on the bottom of lake Erie.

 

I'm not whining or talking like a failure, all beat down that is. Life has been pretty good to me and I was successful, but it seemed like every thing came with much blood and many struggles. I never drank, smoked, got arrested, or accused of a thing. I did my best to be the best person I could be. I didn't need the church financially. and I did not just start going to church to get a food order from the bishop and get him to pay my bills. Anyone that wants to can find out from my Ward that I serve and never ask questions.

 

So this whole Temple debacle has just tired me out and disillusioned me. In retrospect, the matter should have been settled before Baptism. Now I realize that certain factions in the church have used me as a stalking horse to drive their own agendas. What the heck, I just wanted to go to go to church and serve and please Heavenly Father as much as I could but no that was not good enough. I would not even go to church tomorrow but there are three people needing rides from me and I will just try to shut up about my own personal pain and hope that I just don't pop. I hope that some will learn a lesson from these words. They should have had the courage to keep me out of the church in the first place.

 

I knew all along that most people would not understand what an XXY was and would be too stupid to get it. It is just stupid masochism on my own part that made me let them hurt me like this. It was stupid to trust them and you can bet your soul that it will not happen again.

 

As I said before, It will take a President my age to finally begin to understand the pain that they put me and those like me through. Pray for the generations that follow until that happens.

[saemo]

Eh, well, been there done that! Not the whole of your experience, but the disillusioned part. I left for atheism, from Mormonism, in my early twenties. Held no trust for any religion and particularly religion dominated by men. So here I am, a Catholic. The paths God leads us on are surprising. I'm not trying to proselytize, so don't get me wrong. While it is certain there is a strong level of male centricity in Catholicism, the fact remains we are a Marian people. The most highest male in the Catholic hierarchy at this time has a great devotion to Mary. It is she, and my patroness, Mary Magdalene, who led me to Christ. So while there are Catholic women who think of priesthood for women, to my own surprise I have found I don't believe it is necessary. I am no more offended that my priest is male, than I am that Jesus is male. In short, I have come to a place of peace. One where I don't feel unequal because I know, in the eyes if God, that I am not. That is all that matters to me.

God loves you, unconditionally. May the peace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Edited March 2, 2014 by saemo