Saving Lives

[EllenMaksoud]

Well, Heavenly Father used the Mormon Church to save my life full stop. I am so grateful for the Atonement, and Jesus Christ.

 

After I say what I am going to say, some of you may wish that Heavenly Father hadn't. My name is Gwen Boucher, and I am 67. You can use that on Facebook to get the dirt on me, but if you get nasty, I know how to block you.

 

After all I am learning in the last few months, it is clear that the time to just sit on the side lines is well past. What I did and the causation has been confirmed by professional people so this is not just some lame fantasy. When I was born, there was an issue with my genitalia that kept me in the hospital for a bit. I do not know what it was but have managed to put together what I think happened. I was born with both. In the 40's it was common for the Doctors to just do what they though best about these issues and the parents mostly did not know what he did, nor was it documented. He made me a boy, or tried to.

 

Later, I wore dresses and was a girl. My Mother supported it and I was happy. Then she met my stepfather and he nearly murdered me, cutting my hair and tearing up my dress. I was about 3 1/2.  It didn't stop with that, and and by the time I was around 10, I was sufficently terrorized that I learned never to express who I was.  I went on to live a good life, though there were aspects about me that screamed either girl or gay, though I never had a gay experience.

 

I'm leaving a lot of detail out, and am working on a book about it all. By the mid 80's my act was failing, and thought I worked steady, was faithful and a good man, I was about at the end of my rope. Seeking help, my X and I went to a counselor and it did not take long for her to diagnose Multiple Personality Disorder, and later she said I had Gender Dysphoria and might be Bipolar. Being devout Christians we vowed to pray this thing away, and for the next 20 years resisted it. The children all grew up and got married then 9/11 happened, and I crashed, and they put me on very strong Psychotropic medications. Those medications are mind altering and I have spoken to a Doctor  and he confirms that is what caused my Gender Issues to resurface with a vengeance.

 

It all came to a head at Christmas 2004, when I popped. I was hospitalized then and 5 other times in the next 3 years.

 

I got off all the medications in 2007 and wakened to find my life completely different. I was divorced and disowned by the family and had surgery to put me back the way I should have been and was in the beginning.  I can say, looking at me you would not know.  I am a good woman, faithful to the covenants, and will remain unmarried and am not sexually active.

 

The church has been inexplicably kind to me, else I would have died a Muslim, or not religous. You re-introduced me to Jesus Christ and the Atonement. I have been working on a document at the request of the church to explain what happens with Inter-sexed and Transgender folk. Recently, I discovered that several Hospitals and Universities are using a treatment protocol that addresses these issues while the patient while the patient is pre-pubescent and the oldest patients are in their 20's and in that group the suicide rates are almost nothing as opposed to up to 41% in some groups. That is almost 1 in 2 children that are dead because of lack of knowledge and compassion. What I have learned in the last several days has captured my heart. I must get involved. I can no longer sit back.

 

I do not know how long this thread will be unlocked or even on this board, but I had to say what is in my heart. The plan is to stay quietly in the church, but that will be up to them. To be clear, T folk are neither gay nor lesbian.

 

I hope this is not goodbye.

Edited January 26, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[Calm]

You certainly deserve some peace in your life, I hope you get all you desire and the strength to do what you believe you can do to help others.

This is great news about the desire of the Church leaders to be educated on the matter and the research being so dramatically successful...wow, though it makes the tragedies of those lives lost even more poignant.

Do you want to be called Ellen or Gwen now?

[EllenMaksoud]

You certainly deserve some peace in your life, I hope you get all you desire and the strength to do what you believe you can do to help others.

This is great news about the desire of the Church leaders to be educated on the matter and the research being so dramatically successful...wow, though it makes the tragedies of those lives lost even more poignant.

Do you want to be called Ellen or Gwen now?

What ever pleases you. I am Gwen, and would change my on forum name if I knew how. I'll wait to see if the management throws me out. This is the reason for the post with the video in it, "Important Information"  I hope people will view it. There is some very advanced and wonderful news there.

Edited January 26, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[Calm]

It is too long for me to watch tonight...two hours sleep last night and tonight's meds have left me unable to focus that long...I will plan on watching it as soon as I can concentrate long enough.

[EllenMaksoud]

It is too long for me to watch tonight...two hours sleep last night and tonight's meds have left me unable to focus that long...I will plan on watching it as soon as I can concentrate long enough.

I am really excited and scared. If you could spare a prayer ...

[nebula]

If you're thrown off the board for this, I won't be sticking around, either-- but I don't think you have anything to worry about. Thank you for sharing your story. A dear friend of mine recently came out as a transgendered man, and now his own mother won't speak to him. It breaks my heart.

[saemo]

Well, Heavenly Father used the Mormon Church to save my life full stop. I am so grateful for the Atonement, and Jesus Christ.

 

After I say what I am going to say, some of you may wish that Heavenly Father hadn't. My name is Gwen Boucher, and I am 67. You can use that on Facebook to get the dirt on me, but if you get nasty, I know how to block you.

 

After all I am learning in the last few months, it is clear that the time to just sit on the side lines is well past. What I did and the causation has been confirmed by professional people so this is not just some lame fantasy. When I was born, there was an issue with my genitalia that kept me in the hospital for a bit. I do not know what it was but have managed to put together what I think happened. I was born with both. In the 40's it was common for the Doctors to just do what they though best about these issues and the parents mostly did not know what he did, nor was it documented. He made me a boy, or tried to.

 

Later, I wore dresses and was a girl. My Mother supported it and I was happy. Then she met my stepfather and he nearly murdered me, cutting my hair and tearing up my dress. I was about 3 1/2.  It didn't stop with that, and and by the time I was around 10, I was sufficently terrorized that I learned never to express who I was.  I went on to live a good life, though there were aspects about me that screamed either girl or gay, though I never had a gay experience.

 

I'm leaving a lot of detail out, and am working on a book about it all. By the mid 80's my act was failing, and thought I worked steady, was faithful and a good man, I was about at the end of my rope. Seeking help, my X and I went to a counselor and it did not take long for her to diagnose Multiple Personality Disorder, and later she said I had Gender Dysphoria and might be Bipolar. Being devout Christians we vowed to pray this thing away, and for the next 20 years resisted it. The children all grew up and got married then 9/11 happened, and I crashed, and they put me on very strong Psychotropic medications. Those medications are mind altering and I have spoken to a Doctor  and he confirms that is what caused my Gender Issues to resurface with a vengeance.

 

It all came to a head at Christmas 2004, when I popped. I was hospitalized then and 5 other times in the next 3 years.

 

I got off all the medications in 2007 and wakened to find my life completely different. I was divorced and disowned by the family and had surgery to put me back the way I should have been and was in the beginning.  I can say, looking at me you would not know.  I am a good woman, faithful to the covenants, and will remain unmarried and am not sexually active.

 

The church has been inexplicably kind to me, else I would have died a Muslim, or not religous. You re-introduced me to Jesus Christ and the Atonement. I have been working on a document at the request of the church to explain what happens with Inter-sexed and Transgender folk. Recently, I discovered that several Hospitals and Universities are using a treatment protocol that addresses these issues while the patient while the patient is pre-pubescent and the oldest patients are in their 20's and in that group the suicide rates are almost nothing as opposed to up to 41% in some groups. That is almost 1 in 2 children that are dead because of lack of knowledge and compassion. What I have learned in the last several days has captured my heart. I must get involved. I can no longer sit back.

 

I do not know how long this thread will be unlocked or even on this board, but I had to say what is in my heart. The plan is to stay quietly in the church, but that will be up to them. To be clear, T folk are neither gay nor lesbian.

 

I hope this is not goodbye.

God loves you. No one is a Christian alone, but often times the case is, we are alone, together. Peace be with you.

[EllenMaksoud]

God loves you. No one is a Christian alone, but often times the case is, we are alone, together. Peace be with you.

Thank you. I am not trying to force the church to anything, but to educate so that there is no doubt what so ever the path that must be taken to save lives. Once I realized that untreated GID folk killed themselves at the rate of 41% and the treated ones suicide rate was with the general population, I knew that this was a good solution. There have been too many brains sprayed on the doors of the temple and this seems to be one way to help.

[Tacenda]

You, my girl, are courageous! I feel honored to know you through the board. Glad you found a haven with the LDS people, they'll treat you right. Probably why so many Ex LDS can't leave it alone, or so many on the fence can't leave period.

I think nothing comes from hiding, only misconceptions. Now that it's out in the open only good can come of it. I often wondered about your children. They must just be having a struggle with the change, I believe they'll come around, if they haven't already.

[saemo]

Thank you. I am not trying to force the church to anything, but to educate so that there is no doubt what so ever the path that must be taken to save lives. Once I realized that untreated GID folk killed themselves at the rate of 41% and the treated ones suicide rate was with the general population, I knew that this was a good solution. There have been too many brains sprayed on the doors of the temple and this seems to be one way to help.

I wish you the best. Hits close to home as a BIL killed himself shortly after returning from his mission, many years ago. He was a closet homosexual, not transgendered, and I had a lot of anger over the head game coming from religion that added to his decision. Even as it is today, I think he would fair better as a Mormon now, than back then. But the "T" still faces a battle of education.

Before I converted to Catholicism, I spent a year or two with the Unitarian Universalists, who ran education programs for their YOUTH, about all the different folks in the world, including "T". I was along once as a parent chaperone, and It was an odd experience for this raised as Mormon, but it was good to learn how people view themselves and how they hope to be viewed by the world. Education is always a good thing.

[EllenMaksoud]

I wish you the best. Hits close to home as a BIL killed himself shortly after returning from his mission, many years ago. He was a closet homosexual, not transgendered, and I had a lot of anger over the head game coming from religion that added to his decision. Even as it is today, I think he would fair better as a Mormon now, than back then. But the "T" still faces a battle of education.

Before I converted to Catholicism, I spent a year or two with the Unitarian Universalists, who ran education programs for their YOUTH, about all the different folks in the world, including "T". I was along once as a parent chaperone, and It was an odd experience for this raised as Mormon, but it was good to learn how people view themselves and how they hope to be viewed by the world. Education is always a good thing.

I know many T folk of various ages and in the adults >30 I suspicion that extreme stress, or even PTSD plays a role in the manifestation of GID. Many leave any sort of belief system, but I have always insisted that Heavenly Father would make the right thing happen. So, viewing this video in which pre-pubesent youth are treated was a joy to me because their bodies developed the normal way for their chosen gender, and many of the personality problems common in older transition folk are absent.

 

It is the opinion of this and several other doctors that children set their gender <6 years old. I knew at 4 and can remember the day I decided. Now that clinical data is showing up, it will be really difficult for anyone to stonewall us. I am not expecting a Temple Recommend at my age and might perhaps decline it to avoid offending anyone.  I am hoping that this younger set of children will enjoy a normal life without prejudice.

[saemo]

In that same time period, where I was participating with the UUs, I met a woman who identified as lesbian. Took me a minute to get it. Lol. She was once LDS but is now Wiccan, and had a wild sense of humor. She found it enjoyable to torment the LDS missionaries, who randomly knocked at her door, by letting them know right off in no uncertain terms that she was a "tranny witch"...as she put it. I saw the same thing in her that you are talking about, in regards to a life where others were always trying to make her to be something she is not, and all the mental health issues that go with that. Being LDS once was a major part of her wounds. Which isn't me saying the LDS religion is unique In its treatment of people who don't fit perfectly into the M/F societal norms of gender. Wicca is the only place she found where people would accept her. In the UU circles, there are more than a few atheists and Wiccans, many of us ( as I was atheist at the time) came from religious background and viewed ourselves as recovering. Like you, it took an encounter with Christ to heal the wounds. Forgiveness is beautiful, not always easy, but where we are healed.

God bless you.

Rebecca

[EllenMaksoud]

In that same time period, where I was participating with the UUs, I met a woman who identified as lesbian. Took me a minute to get it. Lol. She was once LDS but is now Wiccan, and had a wild sense of humor. She found it enjoyable to torment the LDS missionaries, who randomly knocked at her door, by letting them know right off in no uncertain terms that she was a "tranny witch"...as she put it. I saw the same thing in her that you are talking about, in regards to a life where others were always trying to make her to be something she is not, and all the mental health issues that go with that. Being LDS once was a major part of her wounds. Which isn't me saying the LDS religion is unique In its treatment of people who don't fit perfectly into the M/F societal norms of gender. Wicca is the only place she found where people would accept her. In the UU circles, there are more than a few atheists and Wiccans, many of us ( as I was atheist at the time) came from religious background and viewed ourselves as recovering. Like you, it took an encounter with Christ to heal the wounds. Forgiveness is beautiful, not always easy, but where we are healed.

God bless you.

Rebecca

Growing up in Hell, Religion did not enter my life until my late 20's and I became Evangelical for over 30 years. The guilt they promoted and the hate my denomination preached eventually overcame me and I became Muslim for 7 years. The improper, in my estimation, representation of Jesus Christ drove me to distraction, and my first exposure to the LDS church was completely astonishing, and I might add saved my life full stop. I find it strange that you would leave the LDS church, but in talking with some of the old timer LDS bad things could happen, mostly because of less than perfect Bishops and members.

 

Sometimes I get a brief glimpse of the old times but being a woman of the 21st Century some things just don't find traction with me.  Heavenly Father has used them to heal me in completely astonishing, impossible sounding ways, removing the anger and bitterness that was killing me completely from my life. And for me, there is no guilt or condemnation in Christ Jesus in a way completely new to me.

 

If you wish, you may share your pain with me, and I promise not to attempt to draw you back into the LDS church.   My LDS experience has saved my life in a most delightful way.

Edited January 26, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[saemo]

I am honestly glad you have found peace. My reasons for leaving Mormonism are complicated, happened over time, and was more like a process than a singular event. I have found keeping my exit story to myself in company of LDS is the best thing. No reason to rehash the same thing over and over and over. I am over it. :-) God led me to Him, also in a dark period of my life, and I too have that sense of having been saved. I found my home in Catholicism…Rome Sweet Rome, as Scott Hahn puts it. I am where I belong and have peace.

[rpn]

As the Gwen recently explained to me, her condition is not the same as being transgendered.   She was born a woman, with atypical dna for either man or woman and both genitalia.   Transgender is the term that is often used, though it is not an accurate representation of what occurred in her case.  And we don't actually know to what extent her circumstances are shared with others who appear to be one sex and elect surgery to become the other sex.    But some people do do the elective surgery because they feel like they are the other sex, even when their dna is not atypical and they do  not have ambiguous genitalia.

 

This is an important distinction within church doctrine and procedures as we know that those who change their gender electively are excluded from attending the temple (and may be seen by others as rejecting the gender that was assigned in the pre-existence.) 

 

What Gwen has taught me is that there are some people in these circumstances who are absolutely not changing the gender God gave them, because there is no way for mortals and science to figure out what gender God actually DID give them.  And that sometimes that means (at least for those born before dna use), that humans simply got it wrong when then chose what genitalia to remove.   So allowing the wronged persons to claim their actual gender cannot legitimately be seen as transgender or elective surgery. (Hope I got that right, Gwen.)

 

I cannot see any reason to fear being kicked off this board, by this story in Social Hall.   It is important factual information to inform the rest of us who have no idea how this happens or what it means.  

Edited January 26, 2014 by rpn

[followerofemmanuel]

Thank you Gwen for courageously sharing your story.  I can't even imagine for a minute, all that you have walked through. I hope that medical professionals and society and the Church will learn best, how to support individuals born intersex, in order that confusion and trauma would be minimized in individuals lives.  Blessings Sista!

[Kenngo1969]

I wish you well.

[EllenMaksoud]

As the Gwen recently explained to me, her condition is not the same as being transgendered.   She was born a woman, with atypical dna for either man or woman and both genitalia.   Transgender is the term that is often used, though it is not an accurate representation of what occurred in her case.  And we don't actually know to what extent her circumstances are shared with others who appear to be one sex and elect surgery to become the other sex.    But some people do do the elective surgery because they feel like they are the other sex, even when their dna is not atypical and they do  not have ambiguous genitalia.

 

This is an important distinction within church doctrine and procedures as we know that those who change their gender electively are excluded from attending the temple (and may be seen by others as rejecting the gender that was assigned in the pre-existence.) 

 

What Gwen has taught me is that there are some people in these circumstances who are absolutely not changing the gender God gave them, because there is no way for mortals and science to figure out what gender God actually DID give them.  And that sometimes that means (at least for those born before dna use), that humans simply got it wrong when then chose what genitalia to remove.   So allowing the wronged persons to claim their actual gender cannot legitimately be seen as transgender or elective surgery. (Hope I got that right, Gwen.)

 

I cannot see any reason to fear being kicked off this board, by this story in Social Hall.   It is important factual information to inform the rest of us who have no idea how this happens or what it means.  

Pray for me please. I have a Genetic Counseling meeting tomorrow and I actually would rather be beaten with a stick than do this. Actually, I don't have any documentation but we know there was surgery after my birth in 1947. We do not know what he did but I was in the hospital for a while. My best guess is that I was born with both and the Doctor took the female organs. I have known two other women that this happened to.

 

It is a murky road, and I am glad that is is not possible to have this sort of surgery now days.

[EllenMaksoud]

Well, the reason this thread exists is that the work in the video is important, healing and just. This new protocol will decrease the suffering of so many children.  If you bothered to watch the video, and really care about these children, you will understand.

 

I mean to do everything I can to end or greatly reduce late life gender surgeries; ending ones life is preferable.  It is far too late for a grown man to learn to be a woman and be undetectable. And there is so much prejudice and rejection that continuing life is torture. Of course there is the posibility of educating the ignorant and I am happy to say Mormons are generally a cut above many I have encountered.

 

 These darling little children deserve a chance at a whole life, free of hate and brutality. This possibility captures my soul in an irresistible way.  I've had a pleasant time here on this forum, and I would like to stay. It has been educational, and deepened my faith. As to my personal conduct. I am celibate, and will remain that way. After studying Mormon beliefs at some depth I can see that it would be particularly offensive for one such as I to go to the Temple.  Should the Mormons ever to decide to have Nuns, I would like that.

 

The present day Biblical morality in this case is over ridden with a simple body count, in other words how do we reduce the suicides and other deaths from rigid and uncaring pseudo treatment. There is a list on the site where I publish my fiction of 26 souls who suffered or died as a result of cold, antiquated treatment and drove some of them to suicide.

[Tacenda]

http://documentaryheaven.com/the-boy-who-was-turned-into-a-girl/

 

Ever since learning about David Reimer and his being turned into a sex other than what he was born, I can never forget it.  So glad this research into what NOT to do, is out there.  Just like David's example, you can be a beacon Ellen. ETA: David is one of those statistics, he later committed suicide.  ETA again:  This documentary is astounding, and shows that after many years of research, they show that there is a significant difference in the male and female brain.  It isn't really possible to change that by environmental gender assigning.   ETA again...Can't wait for your book too!

Edited January 27, 2014 by Tacenda

[EllenMaksoud]

http://documentaryheaven.com/the-boy-who-was-turned-into-a-girl/

 

Ever since learning about David Reimer and his being turned into a sex other than what he was born, I can never forget it.  So glad this research into what NOT to do, is out there.  Just like David's example, you can be a beacon Ellen. ETA: David is one of those statistics, he later committed suicide.  ETA again:  This documentary is astounding, and shows that after many years of research, they show that there is a significant difference in the male and female brain.  It isn't really possible to change that by environmental gender assigning. 

According to the video, for now, the better treatment is to listen to the child, often before age 6, and they will tell you their gender. I knew around age 4. So when I was born, having both sets of organs, the Doctor in my opinion, removed the wrong pair. And this was seen as I grew. My Mother immediately knew, and I lived as a girl until my stepfather ended it. And when he did end it, he did so with such brutality and anger that even if I had not identified as a girl, there was no chance that I would identify as a male that was anything like him.

 

Thanks to the LDS, I now see my perpetrator and abuser as a sad old man who had been abused himself. I thank Heavenly Father for that healing. Amazing to me, no one seems to know about my past, unless I tell them. Whether people agree with my morality or not, the LDS saved a life. And I will die celibate. At 67 it won't be that long.

[ERayR]

Sorry to hear how hard your journey has been.  I pray that your future path may become easier.  Do what your do after communicating with God and listening to his direction.

[EllenMaksoud]

Sorry to hear how hard your journey has been.  I pray that your future path may become easier.  Do what your do after communicating with God and listening to his direction.

Thank you. Heavenly Father has had his hand on me for a very long time, though much of what happened I do not understand. The Church has been absolutely lovely to me.

[Buzzard]

According to the video, for now, the better treatment is to listen to the child, often before age 6, and they will tell you their gender. I knew around age 4. So when I was born, having both sets of organs, the Doctor in my opinion, removed the wrong pair. And this was seen as I grew. My Mother immediately knew, and I lived as a girl until my stepfather ended it. And when he did end it, he did so with such brutality and anger that even if I had not identified as a girl, there was no chance that I would identify as a male that was anything like him.

 

Thanks to the LDS, I now see my perpetrator and abuser as a sad old man who had been abused himself. I thank Heavenly Father for that healing. Amazing to me, no one seems to know about my past, unless I tell them. Whether people agree with my morality or not, the LDS saved a life. And I will die celibate. At 67 it won't be that long.

Just as an aside, and of course without knowing you, I prefer the word "virtuous" to "celibate". Celibate sounds so blunt and dry and lonely. Virtuous carries the connotation that even though your life has been by any standard, a rough road, you have been true and faithful to the Lord and kept yourself chaste. 

It would seem that you have discovered something that even a lot of us LDS don't really realize-that the atonement goes so much further than Christ taking on our sins. He takes on our sorrows and our pains as well, if we will just give them to him. 

And your Facebook posts are interesting. I liked the one about the connections between the galaxies, gives me something else to think about out. 

[thesometimesaint]

EllenMaksoud:

 

You sound like a very caring and compassionate person. Don't let negative comments change that. As I said in another thread. Sex change operations should be undertaken in only the most extreme of circumstances, and that helping people accept their own sex is of the highest priority, at least to me as Social Worker.

 

I see no reason to be kicked out of this thread, suicide prevention is of utmost importance, let alone off this MB.