Important Research.

[EllenMaksoud]

Most of you will not know this. The LDS church in my opinion is making the most honest effort of any group of people I have ever experienced to deal with Gender Identity Disorder. I know Mormons who have either had to deal with this themselves or who have children dealing with it. I can't comment on the morality of the issue. It is comforting to see these children being treated with compassion, love and acceptance. What ever the General Authority eventually decides, I will abide by. I strongly believe in the continual revelation of the church and look more to the leadership than any political action group to help these children.

 

The Medicine and Psychology used in this video is from one of two of the most advanced treatment centers in the US. This issue is real as is illustrated by the fact that 41% of untreated children between 16 and 18 kill themselves. 

 

 

 

[thesometimesaint]

It is a sad statistic. Though I do think professional mental health workers, as well as the layperson, can offer much hope in this vital area.

[PtolemyGlenn]

They really need the love of Christ in their lives the poor and things. God never makes miatakes.

[EllenMaksoud]

It is a sad statistic. Though I do think professional mental health workers, as well as the layperson, can offer much hope in this vital area.

It seems increasingly clear that pre-pubescent treatment of these children is a life saver. So far, we know that a person who has had elective gender change surgery will not get a TM. Judging by the statistics, who says the surgery is elective? It is very clear that these children are neither gay or lesbian and are entirely different from that set of people.

 

You can't make a meaningful statement about the morality of treatment protocols since many of these folk vote by ending their lives.  In the Video, the speaker says that in Leviticus it says"If your neighbor is bleeding by the side of the road, you shall not stand idly by". What is more like that than doing suicide?

[EllenMaksoud]

They really need the love of Christ in their lives the poor and things. God never makes miatakes.

I'm not talking about gay and lesbian here. There are children which were born with both pair of sexual organs, I was one. So what was the point in that? "God never makes mistakes" is not in the Bible, it is a sentiment.  In many churches such are driven out and called all sorts of evil things in the name of Jesus Christ. The Mormon church stands alone in at least trying to understand these things.

[PtolemyGlenn]

I'm not talking about gay and lesbian here. There are children which were born with both pair of sexual organs, I was one. So what was the point in that? "God never makes mistakes" is not in the Bible, it is a sentiment.  In many churches such are driven out and called all sorts of evil things in the name of Jesus Christ. The Mormon church stands alone in at least trying to understand these things.

I'm not talking about gay and lesbian here. There are children which were born with both pair of sexual organs, I was one. So what was the point in that? "God never makes mistakes" is not in the Bible, it is a sentiment.  In many churches such are driven out and called all sorts of evil things in the name of Jesus Christ. The Mormon church stands alone in at least trying to understand these things.

I wasnt refering to gay or lesbians. I know what the issue is.

And God does not make mistakes. If its not caused by some environmental chemcal issie it cqn only mean that cgoldren vorn like tgia will serve a higher purpose whixh we dont know about, but God does.

As for the Mormon church being the only one to understand this. You are way off in that analysis.

I ecen attended a church which had someone who had a sex change and everyone was understanding.

As no one has been to every church in the world, one should not make such a sweeping incorrect statement.

God is love and his disciples are suppose to follow that example. So you would probaly find those who would drive the child away with fire and pitchforks are a minority.

[EllenMaksoud]

I wasnt refering to gay or lesbians. I know what the issue is.

And God does not make mistakes. If its not caused by some environmental chemcal issie it cqn only mean that cgoldren vorn like tgia will serve a higher purpose whixh we dont know about, but God does.

As for the Mormon church being the only one to understand this. You are way off in that analysis.

I ecen attended a church which had someone who had a sex change and everyone was understanding.

As no one has been to every church in the world, one should not make such a sweeping incorrect statement.

God is love and his disciples are suppose to follow that example. So you would probaly find those who would drive the child away with fire and pitchforks are a minority.

Did you lapse in to Norwegian for a moment? I was only writing of my personal experience in the USA.  I would really like to see the higher purpose for what some put us through.

[PtolemyGlenn]

Your message simply said the Mormon church stands alone. You didnt specify it was only the U.S

So posts dont come across as sweeping judgements you may need to make them a little clearer.

If you ever come to Australia you will notice how laidback and accepting churches are. Which reflect the Australian society and values of giving everyone a fair go.

Happy Australia Day by the way.

[3DOP]

Hi Ellen. The following seems like a sentiment, and also a sweeping statement.

 

"The Mormon church stands alone in at least trying to understand these things."

 

You disapprove of Glenn affirming that God never makes mistakes which implies that the condition under discussion is within God's plan. I agree with Glenn, and I am sorry for your experience but maybe there are some people like you who have not suffered abuse because they weren't in crazy churches or maybe they never had the need to share the information. I should think it would be comforting to be perceived as a "non-mistake". I am not sure why you would oppose it even if it were mere "sentiment".

 

I think it might be easier to find in the Bible that God never makes mistakes than the assertion you have made that no other church, except your current one, even tries to understand this phenomenon.

Edited January 25, 2014 by 3DOP

[EllenMaksoud]

Your message simply said the Mormon church stands alone. You didnt specify it was only the U.S

So posts dont come across as sweeping judgements you may need to make them a little clearer.

If you ever come to Australia you will notice how laidback and accepting churches are. Which reflect the Australian society and values of giving everyone a fair go.

Happy Australia Day by the way.

I almost came to OZ in the mid 70's. I wish I had.

[EllenMaksoud]

Hi Ellen. The following seems like a sentiment, and also a sweeping statement.

 

"The Mormon church stands alone in at least trying to understand these things."

 

You disapprove of Glenn affirming that God never makes mistakes which implies that the condition under discussion is within God's plan. I agree with Glenn, and I am sorry for your experience but maybe there are some people like you who have not suffered abuse because they weren't in crazy churches or maybe they never had the need to share the information. I should think it would be comforting to be perceived as a "non-mistake". I am not sure why you would oppose it even if it were mere "sentiment".

 

I think it might be easier to find in the Bible that God never makes mistakes than the assertion you have made that no other church, except your current one, even tries to understand this phenomenon.

Should probably qualify that by saying, "no church in my experience", remembering that I am from Amish, and fundamentalistic background. Let's get the focus off me, because I think the video is extremely important. Have you watched it?

[3DOP]

Should probably qualify that by saying, "no church in my experience", remembering that I am from Amish, and fundamentalistic background. Let's get the focus off me, because I think the video is extremely important. Have you watched it?

 

Hi again Ellen. I only took exception to two things from your comment to Glenn. You have modified to "no church in my experience" and that is completely satisfactory. But I am still puzzled at why there would be objection to the idea that God makes no mistakes. This is Social Hall and I won't push for an answer unless you want to explain.

 

As for the video, I do not think I can invest 55 minutes to this subject. I rarely watch anything of that length over the computer. Maybe you could offer a little summary?

 

PS: I had a little time before we run to the airport and decided to try to watch the video and forgot that we don't have any sound for some reason. Anyway...I'll try to look in on it when we get the sound fixed.

Edited January 26, 2014 by 3DOP

[nebula]

I care deeply for a transgender friend of mine and am glad to see this video shared here. Gender identity issues are widely misunderstood in many circles, secular and religious alike. It doesn't surprise me that you've found a higher rate of acceptance and compassion among Mormons-- that's the thing that drew me in, too. It was brave of you to share this part of yourself, and I thank you.

[rpn]

I am one LDS member who doesn't believe that God has anything to do with creating birth defects of any kind.  I agree He doesn't make mistakes, but that is not the same think as saying He created each body exactly the way it is.  He created the process.   IMHO defects and probably many differences unaccounted for by dna are all part of a fallen world and environmental (hormones, chemicals, or what ever) factors.  

 

And there is much to understand or misunderstand about these pretty newly discovered issues.  DNA determination at birth is a relatively new science.  It wouldn't occur to doctors or parents to even explore the dna as it deals with gender unless there were  obvious unexplained genital deformity or extras.   So unless the gender question results in visible evidence,  children may be trying to claim their real sex at later times.   And the world may be using the term transgender inappropriately to describe any number of these people because surgery is used to finally match up to the dna, not to change the dna.

 

(NOTE the video accounts for a number of other basis for gender change, other than those routed in the facts of the body itself, and lumps them all together.   Just like we don't know what causes ssa, we are wise to recognize our limitations in knowing the causes for these "gender dysphoria" and the category of transgender.  I would posit that hardwired gender disagreement is not in the same category as that which is not hardwired, but maybe at some point we'll know something that will change my mind.)

Edited January 26, 2014 by rpn

[thesometimesaint]

It seems increasingly clear that pre-pubescent treatment of these children is a life saver. So far, we know that a person who has had elective gender change surgery will not get a TM. Judging by the statistics, who says the surgery is elective? It is very clear that these children are neither gay or lesbian and are entirely different from that set of people.

 

You can't make a meaningful statement about the morality of treatment protocols since many of these folk vote by ending their lives.  In the Video, the speaker says that in Leviticus it says"If your neighbor is bleeding by the side of the road, you shall not stand idly by". What is more like that than doing suicide?

 

I'm of the professional opinion that the vast majority of attempts at suicide are desperate calls for help. To me gender change operations should only be in the most extreme of situations. Virtually every cell in our bodies shouts our sex. We really do need to treat our fellow beings with respect and dignity. To help them accept their own sex.

 

As to a TR. God doesn't make mistakes, but this life is full of them. God will sort it all out, and no one will be denied any blessing because of something they had no control over.

[EllenMaksoud]

I'm of the professional opinion that the vast majority of attempts at suicide are desperate calls for help. To me gender change operations should only be in the most extreme of situations. Virtually every cell in our bodies shouts our sex. We really do need to treat our fellow beings with respect and dignity. To help them accept their own sex.

 

As to a TR. God doesn't make mistakes, but this life is full of them. God will sort it all out, and no one will be denied any blessing because of something they had no control over.

You really should watch the video.  Dr Z (can't remember his full name) is of that philosophy. He's on the East Coast somewhere, when his patients get to between 16 and 22, the suicide rate is 41%.  At Boston Children's Hospital, Dr Norman Spack's GID patients at that age do not commit suicide. Of course if you had watched the Video, you would know that he gets his patients when they first manifest symptoms and they do something. It would seem to me that one could just measure the blood and come to some reasonable conclusion. A successful suicide attempt is not a call for help.

 

Now of course there is the option that my stepfather took in 1950. You just beat the child until they are so psychologically cowed that they completely disassociate from their true natures. At 67 I have the effects of neck and head injuries he gave me which include head ache, muscle spasms, ocular migranes, from the beatings he gave me. I have a hole in my brain in the right frontal lobe. How much is enough?

 

Most late life Transgender folk I know suffer from Border Line Personality Disorder, or are Bipolar, and are on SSDI.  On the other hand, the children that Dr Spack treats are well balanced and appear authentic to their chosen gender.