Being Truly Converted.

[EllenMaksoud]

OK, wow, this feels like another hoop to jump through.

 

So, what is your interpretation of being "Converted"? Is there a check list? Sigh.

 

 

[EllenMaksoud]

Hmmm. Was directed to this:  http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/10/converted-unto-the-lord?lang=eng#watch=video

[Storm Rider]

No checklist exists. The Savior encouraged the Apostle Simon Peter in Luke, " 

 

 

¶And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, ^aSatan hath desired to ^bhave you, that he may sift you as wheat:

 32 But I have ^aprayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art ^bconverted, ^cstrengthen thy brethren.

 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ^aready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

 34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the **** shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt ^athrice deny that thou knowest me.

 

We are converted our faith is firm; there is no question how we will respond to our trials and the tribulations of this life. As our faith grows we spend our life in service to others; helping them to carry their load.  

 

It is no hoop to jump through, but a journey in knowing our Father more fully and becoming progressively more committed to him. Peter had sat at the Master's feet for three years; was instructed daily by him and yet he still had not committed his heart to him.  He denied him at a time when knowing him may have been dangerous or opened him to persecution.  

 

Too often we all are committed intellectually; we study the scriptures, we attend church, we go through the motions of discipleship, but our heart and our soul is not committed to Him. 

 

Conversion is not an event so much as a life-long process. It goes hand-in-hand with sanctification. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

OK, wow, this feels like another hoop to jump through.

 

So, what is your interpretation of being "Converted"? Is there a check list? Sigh.

Use Peter as your model...Christ told him; when thou art converted, convert thy brethren". A true and sure witness cannot take a long time. Christ could not fully do it without the aid of the Holy Spirit, which when received by Peter on the "day of Pentecost", and this is how he became "truly converted". So to put it another way, we must seek out our own "day of Pentecost" which will come if we seek and will "not" come if we are not ready.

[EllenMaksoud]

Use Peter as your model...Christ told him; when thou art converted, convert thy brethren". A true and sure witness cannot take a long time. Christ could not fully do it without the aid of the Holy Spirit, which when received by Peter on the "day of Pentecost", and this is how he became "truly converted". So to put it another way, we must seek out our own "day of Pentecost" which will come if we seek and will "not" come if we are not ready.

There is an old poem that you may remember that alludess to the idea that some of us are sowers only, and never a harvester. So far that appears to be my lot, and I am content with it.

[Tacenda]

http://www.wheatandtares.org/13566/reasons-disaffected-mormons-become-atheists/

 

Could you also ask are you truly converted to your faith in a church and in God?  According to this article, so many that are disaffected LDS truly weren't converted to a belief in God.  Isn't this something that should be addressed also.  I think it's sad that we aren't converting well enough in this church. 

[ERayR]

http://www.wheatandtares.org/13566/reasons-disaffected-mormons-become-atheists/

 

Could you also ask are you truly converted to your faith in a church and in God?  According to this article, so many that are disaffected LDS truly weren't converted to a belief in God.  Isn't this something that should be addressed also.  I think it's sad that we aren't converting well enough in this church. 

 

We do not convert.  The Holy Ghost converts.  It is up to us to give others the opportunity to choose to listen to the Holy Ghost or to decline.

[Kenngo1969]

No checklist exists. The Savior encouraged the Apostle Simon Peter in Luke, " 

 

 

¶And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, ^aSatan hath desired to ^bhave you, that he may sift you as wheat:

 32 But I have ^aprayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art ^bconverted, ^cstrengthen thy brethren.

 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ^aready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

 34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the **** shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt ^athrice deny that thou knowest me.

 

We are converted our faith is firm; there is no question how we will respond to our trials and the tribulations of this life. As our faith grows we spend our life in service to others; helping them to carry their load.  

 

It is no hoop to jump through, but a journey in knowing our Father more fully and becoming progressively more committed to him. Peter had sat at the Master's feet for three years; was instructed daily by him and yet he still had not committed his heart to him.  He denied him at a time when knowing him may have been dangerous or opened him to persecution.  

 

Too often we all are committed intellectually; we study the scriptures, we attend church, we go through the motions of discipleship, but our heart and our soul is not committed to Him. 

 

Conversion is not an event so much as a life-long process. It goes hand-in-hand with sanctification. 

 

This.

 

There is an old poem that you may remember that alludess to the idea that some of us are sowers only, and never a harvester. So far that appears to be my lot, and I am content with it.

 

I've never seen the poem, and I might not understand the poet's point even if I had (I'm obtuse! ), but I think we all sow and reap to varying degrees at different times in our lives.  We could all do a better job, I think, recognizing the good fruit that we receive when we sow the good seeds of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in our lives.  To illustrate the point that we both reap and sow, I invite you to consider something I published on my blog a while ago.  

 

And to be clear, I'm not singling anyone out: we could all be more obedient and faithful, no matter how obedient and faithful we are.  As King Benjamin reminded us, even if we were to serve God with our whole souls, we would still be unprofitable servants, which is why Christ's grace is necessary.  And the Church of Jesus Christ is not a resort for the spiritually well; it's a hospital for the spiritually sick ... and that includes all of us.  One reason why Christ is so "mighty to save" is because of His longsuffering.

 

http://www.greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/of-doubt-faith-questions-and-choices/

 

You might consider this, as well:

 

http://www.greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/06/08/on-submitting-my-will-to-gods/  

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

There is an old poem that you may remember that alludess to the idea that some of us are sowers only, and never a harvester. So far that appears to be my lot, and I am content with it.

Except we are promised one day we will reap what we sow, positive or negative.

[urroner]

We are truly converted when we start to "obey the commandments," but we abide by the principles those commandments are based upon. 

 

We can tell that we are truly converted basically the same way we can tell if we truly love somebody.  If you truly love your spouse, that person is not #1 in your book, that person is the only one.

[rpn]

Not a new hoop.  The same hoop described differently.  Being truly converted includes that might change spoken of by King Benjamin and Alma.   It comes from experiences that turn us from the natural man into something more and better.

[Calm]

Nice blog, Ken.

[Calm]

According to this article, so many that are disaffected LDS truly weren't converted to a belief in God.  .

Where does it say that?

I skimmed it looking for this, but it didn't jump out at me and having read a lot of similar articles and it being one of those days, I just don't want to have to concentrate carefully to read it so a direction to the specific would be greatly appreciated.

[Tacenda]

Where does it say that?

I skimmed it looking for this, but it didn't jump out at me and having read a lot of similar articles and it being one of those days, I just don't want to have to concentrate carefully to read it so a direction to the specific would be greatly appreciated.

I read it in a few places, not in so many words, but #4 stood out to me, if true. After reading it, I think that the LDS church seperates itself from the traditional Christians, so much so, that the ex-mormon probably won't join a non LDS Christian church because of it. Think of Pres. Hinckley and his statement of our belief in a different Jesus.

[Calm]

Not following..,sorry I am so dense...

Are you simply saying because they become atheists they never truly believed in God?

[Tacenda]

Not following..,sorry I am so dense...

Are you simply saying because they become atheists they never truly believed in God?

Or the traditional God and their idea of who God is, fell apart, when stopping belief of who our Jesus/God is.

Our belief is so unique that the average LDS has the belief that all other churches are wrong and it's hard to turn it around and continue in a non LDS Christian church when having left our church. Do we establish enough of the Christian ideal, such as Grace, to keep someone going in belief?

And I'm definitely the dense one out of the two of us.

[Storm Rider]

Or the traditional God and their idea of who God is, fell apart, when stopping belief of who our Jesus/God is.

Our belief is so unique that the average LDS has the belief that all other churches are wrong and it's hard to turn it around and continue in a non LDS Christian church when having left our church. Do we establish enough of the Christian ideal, such as Grace, to keep someone going in belief?

And I'm definitely the dense one out of the two of us.

 

That is an interesting perspective. The way I have viewed this is that LDS are students of the scriptures; they study, they pray, and they strive to understand. It is that knowledge of scripture and the gospel that prevents most LDS from finding a consistent degree of interest, comfort, and acceptance in other churches. 

 

Our critics like to talk about milk and meat, but so much of the Protestant world is only, exclusively milk. There is no meat ever.  One can find a great deal of meat in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, but their more formal liturgy is rather foreign and leaves most LDS a bit cold. 

 

Having visited a great number of churches throughout my life I have often felt the Spirit in other churches, but I am also left unfulfilled. I don't think I am unique and expect that other LDS sense many of the same things I have. 

[Tacenda]

That is an interesting perspective. The way I have viewed this is that LDS are students of the scriptures; they study, they pray, and they strive to understand. It is that knowledge of scripture and the gospel that prevents most LDS from finding a consistent degree of interest, comfort, and acceptance in other churches.

Our critics like to talk about milk and meat, but so much of the Protestant world is only, exclusively milk. There is no meat ever. One can find a great deal of meat in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, but their more formal liturgy is rather foreign and leaves most LDS a bit cold.

Having visited a great number of churches throughout my life I have often felt the Spirit in other churches, but I am also left unfulfilled. I don't think I am unique and expect that other LDS sense many of the same things I have.

Precisely, and that's the reason, I think, they are saying ex LDS are atheist. Since so many once stalwart believers think, if the LDS church is not true nothing is.

[ERayR]

I read it in a few places, not in so many words, but #4 stood out to me, if true. After reading it, I think that the LDS church seperates itself from the traditional Christians, so much so, that the ex-mormon probably won't join a non LDS Christian church because of it. Think of Pres. Hinckley and his statement of our belief in a different Jesus.

 

And this is bad?  How?

[Calm]

I don't think the separation is a bad thing if our position is true. If it has the unfortunate effect of those who reject its truth to also be more likely to reject God, I do think that is sad but it makes sense to me for at least two reasons...one being if they see the argument of the apostasy as valid still and thus no other existing faith is valid so they see it as now probable that no faith is or that to turn one's back on a more complete truth, one has to work harder....greater light lost will result in greater darkness sought for comfort's sake IMO (not saying in terms of righteousness though this could be true for some, it is more like when a spouse leaves a marriage for some it is easier to create a villain out of the one they once deeply loved, perhaps because the only way to erase the pain of losing that love is to cover the emotional memory with an equally strong negative emotion and then overtime then positive memory fades but it still leaves behind the negative rejection, perhaps it is simply applying all the reasons they once loved only now they are chosen to be seen as reasons to reject).

[Kenngo1969]

Nice blog, Ken.

Thank Ewe.

[Tacenda]

And this is bad? How?

Hopefully they still believe in God, after losing faith in the LDS church. It's bad if they believe it's all or nothing. That if the church isn't true, it's all false. That's how ingrained Mormonism is in people. Edited January 25, 2014 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

I don't think the separation is a bad thing if our position is true. If it has the unfortunate effect of those who reject its truth to also be more likely to reject God, I do think that is sad but it makes sense to me for at least two reasons...one being if they see the argument of the apostasy as valid still and thus no other existing faith is valid so they see it as now probable that no faith is or that to turn one's back on a more complete truth, one has to work harder....greater light lost will result in greater darkness sought for comfort's sake IMO (not saying in terms of righteousness though this could be true for some, it is more like when a spouse leaves a marriage for some it is easier to create a villain out of the one they once deeply loved, perhaps because the only way to erase the pain of losing that love is to cover the emotional memory with an equally strong negative emotion and then overtime then positive memory fades but it still leaves behind the negative rejection, perhaps it is simply applying all the reasons they once loved only now they are chosen to be seen as reasons to reject).

Very true, and need to add that I'm sorry if I've derailed the OP by bringing in the article.

[djones]

I think you know you're truly converted when you will put the Lord first before anything else (especially your own will when it wants to do the opposite)