The Nephi Code

[EllenMaksoud]

Being more or less an interloper in Mormon culture, I have little idea about who are the real players in the faith. So, in once again reading the Bible and BOM simultaneously, questions have arisen. In doing a google search of the Middle East of 600 BC, the following is one of the results. The Author seems to be a committed Mormon, but I can not testify as to his scholarship since I would perhaps not know a true scholar even if he honked my nose.

 

I actually am thinking of buying this book. What say you ?  Wow, the price !

 

http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2013/02/have-remains-of-mulek-been-found.html

Edited December 31, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[ERayR]

With nothing but a cursory inspection to go on my first impression is that I wouldn't buy it.

[mfbukowski]

Being more or less an interloper in Mormon culture, I have little idea about who are the real players in the faith. So, in once again reading the Bible and BOM simultaneously, questions have arisen. In doing a google search of the Middle East of 600 BC, the following is one of the results. The Author seems to be a committed Mormon, but I can not testify as to his scholarship since I would perhaps not know a true scholar even if he honked my nose.

 

I actually am thinking of buying this book. What say you ?  Wow, the price !

 

http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2013/02/have-remains-of-mulek-been-found.html

Well I ain't no scholar either, but this definitely has a quacky feel to me.  Seems like a nice guy and all, but not exactly a well-thought through premise, in my humble opinion.

 

The guy has self-published his opinion on Mormon geography.  Good for him, and I hope he makes some money.  But he ain't getting mine.

 

Obviously, this leaves open the door for speculation and adventure. Suggesting Mulek took it with him to the Land of Promise is as good a story as any other. However, while Mulek was of the Judah royal family, the Ark is not a Western Hemisphere icon, but that of Israel. It seems unlikely that the Lord would have brought it to the Americas, when Judah is to inherit the area of Jerusalem, while the inheritance of Ehpraim and Menassah will be in the Western Hemisphere. Lastly, it must be asked how in the world would Mulek’s protectors have gotten the Ark out of the Holy of Holies in the temple and out of Jerusalem? The High Priest of the Temple would never had allowed that to happen, keeping faith that the Lord would protect Jerusalem against her enemies.

Of course, it could be argued that the High Priest was one of the retinue that came with Mulek, though it is most unlikely he would have vacated his most important post, at least until after the temple fell and was destroyed. By then, any escape from the city by such a group, especially carrying a temple relic of such size, would have been observed by the Babylonians, and undoubtedly never allowed to happen. Most likely, it was taken off to Babylonia, as it had been in an earlier time taken off by the Philistines.

Which brings us to the area of Panama. According to the drilling of the deep sea science ship Glomar Challenger, coring samples taken from both sides of the Isthmus of Panama have shown beyond a shadow of doubt, that the entire Panamanian Isthmus was under water and not connected to South America. My contention is that the isthmus rose out of the sea at the time of the destruction described in 3 Nephi, and was part of the cordillera that rose up, which we call the Andes, “whose height is great” (Helaman 14:23) as spoken of by Samuel the Lamanite.

So he admits it is speculation, and the idea that the isthmus rose, geologically speaking, last evening, is pretty bold to say the least.

 

In my opinion, keep your money.

[EllenMaksoud]

 

Well I ain't no scholar either, but this definitely has a quacky feel to me.  Seems like a nice guy and all, but not exactly a well-thought through premise, in my humble opinion.

 

The guy has self-published his opinion on Mormon geography.  Good for him, and I hope he makes some money.  But he ain't getting mine.

 

So he admits it is speculation, and the idea that the isthmus rose, geologically speaking, last evening, is pretty bold to say the least.

 

In my opinion, keep your money.

 

 

 

Well I ain't no scholar either, but this definitely has a quacky feel to me.  Seems like a nice guy and all, but not exactly a well-thought through premise, in my humble opinion.

 

The guy has self-published his opinion on Mormon geography.  Good for him, and I hope he makes some money.  But he ain't getting mine.

 

So he admits it is speculation, and the idea that the isthmus rose, geologically speaking, last evening, is pretty bold to say the least.

 

In my opinion, keep your money.

 

I keep hoping to find that group of Mormons who eschew picking at the fuzz in their navels, and just get on with living the life.

 

As to his premise of how they got to meso Amercia, coming from Yemen is possible; sea currents are favorable. And I also think that he could easily have come out through the Mediteranian and across the Atlantic.

[cdowis]

As a new member, I suggest that you check out Nibley's books on the Book of Mormon.  They are slightly outdated, but they will give you a good foundation on BOM history from the dean of LDS scholars.

Edited December 31, 2013 by cdowis

[The Nehor]

I would also vote no. Seems well-meaning but it seems to be based on nothing but a long trail of suppositions.

[Calm]

John Sorenson...

His son, who posts as cursor, has put a lot of his stuff online.

The Maxwell institute has a ton of articles and all free online, don't know if their search function as well as linking their old links to new site has been fixed but I've been able to get to all the articles I googled lately. At the very least that will make you more familiar with most of the scholars in the field. It also offers book reviews.

Also Interpreter at mormoninterpreter.com which has taken over most IMO of what the Maxwell Institute used to do...again this will let you know who the scholars are in the field right now.

Both sites offer book reviews including a number of critical books as well as those written from a believing stance.

[theplains]

As to his premise of how they got to meso Amercia, coming from Yemen is possible; sea currents are favorable. And I also think that he could easily have come out through the Mediteranian and across the Atlantic.

 

If Jared and company could make it in 'submarine'-like vessels, Nephi's voyage must

have been a breeze     Also found this published in 2011 in Meridian Magazine.

 

Regards,

Jim

[EllenMaksoud]

If Jared and company could make it in 'submarine'-like vessels, Nephi's voyage must

have been a breeze     Also found this published in 2011 in Meridian Magazine.

 

Regards,

Ji

Looking at world population figures of the time (McEvedy and Jones, 1978) the world population doubled between 1000 and 500 BC. Perhaps the Arabian Peninsula was more livable than present day. The existence of Bountiful is fairly easy to prove because what was likely the place, still exists today in Dofar, Oman.

Modern maps call the areas settlements Salalah, and Taqah, Oman.

 

As to the ocean voyage, in the era when I was educated, we were taught that Columbus was the first to ever get to the Americas. Now days we know that teaching was a product of profound ignorance that is difficult for me to understand. My family sailed and we once contemplated sailing to Europe and other places, however our sailing experiences were confined to the lower Columbia River and San Juan Islands. The Oceans have currents that are today referred to as "oceanic gyres", maps of which are readily available on the internet using those search terms. And those currents change direction depending upon cyclic climate phases. So, to me the journey of the people from Oman to the Americas is predictable if fantastic.

 

I do not know if I mentioned it in this thread so I will mention it again. There is evidence that Middle Eastern sailors visited the Mississipi river area, and along the pan handle of Florida as is shown by the presence of Arabic words in their language and inscriptions on rock walls. 

 

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_17/explore.aspx

 

In my opinion, a better way to measure our church is to remember what we do today. I am admonished to not share personal experience, a fact that feels muzzling, so I will just say that I experienced enough in my first exposure to it to convince me that there are things happening in our church that are outside common explanation.

Edited January 1, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[Whiskeypete]

Orson Scott Card has some interesting speculations on Mulek, basically pointing out that there is no internal evidence that Zarahemla was descended from Mulek other than his claim as such.

Speculation on Zarahemla.

Let me offer an aside on the matter of Zarahemla and the Mulekites. Much has been made of the statement by King Zarahemla that his people were descended from the youngest son of King Zedekiah. Extraordinary and completely unconvincing efforts have been made to find such a son, overlooked by the Babylonian captors of Jerusalem; just as much effort has been devoted to explaining how a good Jaredite name like Mulek could show up in the family of an Israelite king. But is this really necessary?

In Meso-American culture, every ruling class had to assert an ancient ancestor who was a god or, at the very least, a king in an admired culture. Whoever ruled in the Valley of Mexico always had to claim to be descended from or heirs of the Toltecs. Rival Mayan cities would play at ancestral one-upmanship. Imagine, now, the vigorous and dangerous Nephites, coming down the valley of the Sidon River from the highlands of Guatemala. King Zarahemla is negotiating with King Mosiah. Mosiah tells him of his ancestry, of course, and the story of how God led Lehi and Nephi out of Jerusalem at the time when Zedekiah was king of Israel.

To Mosiah, what he is doing is bearing his testimony and asserting the divine guidance that he receives as the legitimate king of a chosen people. To Zarahemla, what he is doing is claiming that his lineage gives him the right to rule over the people of Zarahemla and displace him from the kingship. So what does Zarahemla do? Well, Mosiah admits that his ancestors were not kings in Israel. So Zarahemla picks his most noble ancestor, Mulek, and then declares him to be the son of that last king of Israel. Thus if anybody has the right to rule over anybody, it's Zarahemla who has the right to rule over Mosiah and his people. But Mosiah kindly points out that if Zarahemla and his people are descended from Israelites, they certainly seem to have forgotten the language and writing, and therefore have obviously degenerated from the high culture of Israel. The Nephites, on the other hand, have preserved a writing system that no one else uses, and which Zarahemla can't read. They have a history accounting for every year since they arrived in America, which Zarahemla of course cannot produce.

In the end, whatever negotiation there was ended up with Zarahemla bowing out of the kingship and his people becoming subject to rule by the Nephites. But the story of Mulek served a very useful purpose even so -- it allowed the people to merge, not with the hostility of conquerors over the conquered, though in fact that is what the relationship fundamentally was, but rather with the idea of brotherhood. They were all Israelites. Thus no one had any reason to question the Mulek story, because, while it failed in its original purpose, to allow Zarahemla to prevail over Mosiah, it still served the valuable function of uniting the newly combined nation as a single tribe. It wasn't completely successful, of course, or there wouldn't have been a later revolt of Kingmen against Nephite Freemen, but considering that the people of Zarahemla outnumbered the people of Mosiah by quite a bit, the Mulek story may well have contributed to the ultimate victory of the judges in that struggle.

http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-bookofmormon.html

[The Nehor]

Orson Scott Card has some interesting speculations on Mulek, basically pointing out that there is no internal evidence that Zarahemla was descended from Mulek other than his claim as such.

http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-bookofmormon.html

 

Not buying it. Mostly because Orson Scott Card has gone off the deep end about pretty much everything else.

[nephicode]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not have a position for where Lehi landed. The herd believes it's in Meso-America (Central America for the simple people like me), as well as most elite LDS thinkers. The thinkers are not prophets of the LDS church. The church for good reason has not accepted these theory's as a church position. The website NephiCode.com promotes the book "Lehi Never Saw MesoAmerica". This is for someone that wants to question if the herd think is wrong. The Nephi Code is Lehi and Nephi's writings where they describe the land of promise. The Author shows that this land is not Meso-America; it's in fact what is now Peru, and the surrounding area of South America.

 

 

 

Reading the book is eye opening, and very informative. You don't have to believe the authors position, but it gives a lot of answers to questions that the Meso-American theory falls short on.

 

 

 

Since reading the book, I have also read the authors other three books. I would suggest anyone to start with "Lehi Never Saw MesoAmerica" first though. Since reading the book, I have done many searches on my own. The amount of amazing ancient structures and civilizations in the Peru area is eye opening. The oldest ancient sites found in the America's are found in Peru. They are finding new ancient temples, sites in Peru every few months.  This area is covered by some of the most remote unexplored jungle, and much more will be found in time. If you want to open your mind to very interesting possibilities and stop following a herd, it's a great book for you. Again, the church does not have a position on where Lehi Landed! This book is full of BOM references, and how they describe the Land of Promise.

 

Please do not refer to church members with derogatory labels.

[Calm]

"herdthink"

Now that's not elitist.