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strappinglad

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Too many "homeless" that panhandle in Utah, are not really homeless. We've been told not to give $ but buy them food or something they can't go buy booze or drugs with. I think we are somewhat distrustful of them hurting someone. Think Brian Mitchell.

This might have been the mindset. But in all reality, we might just have to help no matter what we think might happen and let the Lord take care of the rest. I do think the bishop being dressed like that, probably stuck out way more in a sea of white shirts. And think we don't cater very well to those that are not following the WoW, and smell of cigarettes, and look unkempted. Our church should not act like corporation. But should be a hospital for the sinners, to use the old cliche.

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Too many "homeless" that panhandle in Utah, are not really homeless. We've been told not to give $ but buy them food or something they can't go buy booze or drugs with. I think we are somewhat distrustful of them hurting someone. Think Brian Mitchell.

This might have been the mindset. But in all reality, we might just have to help no matter what we think might happen and let the Lord take care of the rest. I do think the bishop being dressed like that, probably stuck out way more in a sea of white shirts. And think we don't cater very well to those that are not following the WoW, and smell of cigarettes, and look unkempted. Our church should not act like corporation. But should be a hospital for the sinners, to use the old cliche.

 

I've worked with the Salvation Army before in Montana, and I'm familiar with the local shelters there as well, and I've never worked with any group (who tried to help the homeless) who didn't tell people not to give them money.  It absolutely does not help them.

 

But I think you are right that a lot of people are afraid of homeless people and that is sad, but also to be expected considering the world we live in.  We have to find ways to help and be kind without putting ourselves in danger, and that is very possible if we try.

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Ive never seen the Church act like a corporation. Ive been in many wards.

Well, the church is a corporation.  Lots of suit guys!  Just kidding.  Sorry don't want to derail.  Just think, looks do sway some of us.  If we could break through that barrier of thought.  That's all. 

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In my community... we have the unkempt "homeless" people standing on every supermarket parking lot entrance with their little cardboard signs... the ones that get me are the ones that say "God Bless."   This is a well known scam... these people are paid to do this, and they wouldn't do it if gullible people would not give them money, thus making it a lucrative enterprise. 

I support the Salvation Army by sending several donations during the year, and will send one this month because of their extra efforts during the holidays. 

I also have several other charities to which I donate that I know have low administrative costs from each dollar and who I know really attempt to help people. (Our Women's Shelter... and our local animal shelter to name two...can't overlook our animal friends.)

 

GG

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Our news reported on the panhandlers recently.  One couple had a daughter that was out panhandling because she was a user.  She had been clean for a time, has a daughter, lived a wonderful life beforehand.  They showed childhood photos, etc.  And has a home and daughter waiting for her to get better, but she has chosen her course.  Funny thing is, her parents do want her to get money because they worry she won't get enough to eat or get shelter.  Their daughter won't get help from them, even though they're waiting & hoping for her to return.  I'm wondering if shelters have a rule that no one stay there if they are high on drugs and drunk.  I guess if only we could get to the root of the problems that affect society.  I can see how so many people can be a paycheck away from homelessness.  And it's such a crucial thing for them to land somewhere.  That's the good thing about the church, they help before it gets that bad I guess.    

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Ive never seen the Church act like a corporation. Ive been in many wards.

I have attended Wards in many countries and States and you are correct, none act like a corporation. We are also accepting of all who come...I grow weary of the cheep shots of how we treat smokers or those not well dressed. For those who are members and know what is expected they feel uncomfortable because the Holy Spirit is striving or dealing with their souls.
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Well, let's see. I'm a not very large female, somewhat socially inept, confronted with a guy who, according to some of the reports I've read, appears to be either high or insane. No, I am NOT going to engage, I am not going to make eye contact. While I certainly would not ask him to be thrown out, I would quietly hang back and leave him to those members of the ward who are better able to deal with a potentially volatile situation.

If he was simply acting like a normal guy who was down on his luck, then yes, there was a problem.

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I would have been more impressed if the bishop didn't turn his 'teaching' into a public display by seeking out the media and instead kept it as a private encounter to share within the ward, especially since the media is apparently inflating the negatitve responses of ward members if the video is correct.

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What is being ignored by many of the media is that it is quite possible those who asked him to leave had good reasons, they believed they were protecting others, their neighbours and family members, from potential harm...for example, from the DNs article:

“One of the gentlemen that approached me and asked me to leave the property felt horrible (afterward), and it would be easy to judge him,” Bishop Musselman said. “But what I didn’t know about this was that just one year before that time his granddaughter had come to his church … and helped an old man get into his car, and at the time that she did that, he was faking, and he stole her purse and drove off. So he came out because he was concerned about the safety of people, and his experience caused him to view me through a different lens.”

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Just in case anyone thinks I have an issue with a homeless man coming to church, that's not it. It is the gameplaying to 'teach' compassion. What about compassion for those ward members who don't want to be part of a media story? What about having enough compassion to take the time to actually go out among the homeless, find a man who deserves compassion and bring him back to the ward to allow people to get to know the reality, not a superficial game that most likely will trigger feelings of shame and a lessening of trust in memory rather than joy in getting to know another valued human being and maybe actually achieving something besides 15 minutes of fame on twitter. What about being concerned enough about those under one's stewardship that instead of playing this 'it feels good to feel bad' game, he gets in the professionals who can teach how to not only effectively, but safely help those truly in need while not promoting those who beg as a business.

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Just in case anyone thinks I have an issue with a homeless man coming to church, that's not it. It is the gameplaying to 'teach' compassion. What about compassion for those ward members who don't want to be part of a media story? What about having enough compassion to take the time to actually go out among the homeless, find a man who deserves compassion and bring him back to the ward to allow people to get to know the reality, not a superficial game that most likely will trigger feelings of shame and a lessening of trust in memory rather than joy in getting to know another valued human being and maybe actually achieving something besides 15 minutes of fame on twitter. What about being concerned enough about those under one's stewardship that instead of playing this 'it feels good to feel bad' game, he gets in the professionals who can teach how to not only effectively, but safely help those truly in need while not promoting those who beg as a business.

Mom ;), I was all for it until you put it this way. I think it may come back to bite him. Great idea to bring a homeless person in. Better yet, bring several and have a meal too. But, there again, I'm sadly, leary of doing that.
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. But, there again, I'm sadly, leary of doing that.

That is why you work with the professionals who deal with reality and know what boundaries are appropriate and what are only fear based instead of playing "what if...." fantasy games.

I have to admit it is a pet peeve of mine when teachers take the easy way out with emotional angst games....but these are just stories while they could be using scripture or better yet their own reality and others. Life gives us plenty of opportunities for real lessons, no need to make ones up.

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It's a good lesson if the 'teacher' also learns something. I hesitate to assume that the Bishop did this as a " gotcha" moment. Perhaps he had seen some member's attitudes that suggested they could use a rethink. Bringing an actual homeless person in to do this may have had unintended moral and/or legal consequences. It doesn't hurt to be reminded that we are all God's children, even those with beards , and tattoos, and tank tops, and bad odors and...It is, however, a little like seeing a bad car accident. It may smarten you up for a few weeks, but then you go back to old habits. Note the church attendance increase in NYC after 9/11.

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Like I said, I would think a lot different if I just happened to hear this from a ward member but to see it all over the news....just sours any positives that come out of it.

I think it would have been better to invite families to sign up for help at a shelter, show a documentary at a fireside, invite a professional that works with the homeless to come give a talk on REAL people...make a real connection, not a pretend one, it is too easy to simply emote a bit, chastise oneself and then forget with the make believe. You see or hear about someone real suffering, suffering that doesn't come off with soap and water...the impact will much more likely result in change.

Let see the bishop follow up with getting his ward involve in food and clothing and donation drives and interfaith efforts like reported recently...then I will be impressed.

I am less impressed with lessons about how we should feel about something than lessons that actually help us do something.

Anyway, I've pet peeved enough...I'll stop now...or at least will try.

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Every 4 years, the Oakland area puts on a temple pagent "And It Came to Pass".  There is a story told of the guy who played Christ.  He grew a beard and grew his hair long for the part.  He took BART (rapid transit) to get to the performance.  There were several that were attending the performance on the same car as he was on.  They were afraid to sit next to him because of his appearance.  You can imagine the surprise they had when they found out he was the one playing Christ.  

 

I don't know if this is a true story or not, but that was the story that was circulating at the time the pagent was being performed.

 

We all have to figure out how to balance chairity with personal safety or even what is the best way to take care of the homeless.  Personally, I don't give money to people directly on the streets, but do guide them and have even offered to take them to where there are meals provided 3 times a day for anyone who shows up.  I also have served in those kitchens.  I think it is a better way to help those in need.  Just how I have decided to deal with this issue.  Perhaps others have better suggestions.

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I would have been more impressed if the bishop didn't turn his 'teaching' into a public display by seeking out the media and instead kept it as a private encounter to share within the ward

The bishop didn't go to the media.  The makeup artist talked about her personal experience with it on facebook and it went viral.   Bishop was simply responding to media inquiry.

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The bishop didn't go to the media.  The makeup artist talked about her personal experience with it on facebook and it went viral.   Bishop was simply responding to media inquiry.

He still talked to the media, didn't he?  It wasn't just the artist who did?  If I was the bishop, I would have said, I appreciate the interest, but this is something for my ward alone and then declined any interviews and then asked the ward members if they hadn't already, not to talk about it with the media (in order to avoid other ward members from feeling awkward about having this attention drawn to their ward).

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