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Hello Mormon Brothers And Sisters


theanthrofox

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hello. im new here. i am not a member of the church. i do not believe the book of mormon to be true. and i disagree with some teachings of your church. however i really like many people who are members, i have met mormons who are good people and i am meeting with missionaries at the moment who are lovely..... my beliefs are most closely aligned to buddhism, but i do not agree with some buddhist teachings either. however, i find buddhism to be most rational path that i have encountered. so. . . . hello! i am elder fox!

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Thank you, I read the 'How Mormons are Buddhists & Vice Versa'; I would have to say that the two aren't really compatible and I would argue that the article is not totally accurate.... It is easier for a Mormon to take aspects of Buddhism and apply it to their life, but it is harder for a Buddhist to apply aspects of Mormonism and apply it to their life....

 

However, thank you for sharing it with me... If you have any more that would be great!

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Thank you, I read the 'How Mormons are Buddhists & Vice Versa'; I would have to say that the two aren't really compatible and I would argue that the article is not totally accurate.... It is easier for a Mormon to take aspects of Buddhism and apply it to their life, but it is harder for a Buddhist to apply aspects of Mormonism and apply it to their life....

 

However, thank you for sharing it with me... If you have any more that would be great!

 

I don't believe we are the same as Buddhists. From what I understand Buddhism doesn't have a personal God like Mormonism does. But I do believe where they do overlap we can find common cause with each other. IE; We do believe in giving deep meditative thought our roles in mortality. Something I have a deep admiration of Buddhists for.

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hello. im new here. i am not a member of the church. i do not believe the book of mormon to be true. and i disagree with some teachings of your church. however i really like many people who are members, i have met mormons who are good people and i am meeting with missionaries at the moment who are lovely..... my beliefs are most closely aligned to buddhism, but i do not agree with some buddhist teachings either. however, i find buddhism to be most rational path that i have encountered. so. . . . hello! i am elder fox!

Are you an anthropologist?  (Oh, and welcome!)

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Im not an anthropologist no...

 

 

Yep I agree I don't really know much about Mormonism. But I am interested in the 'inaccuracies' people find in Mormonism

 

Who says there are any?  Perceived inaccuracies are often the result of a lack of information. 

Edited by ERayR
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lots of people say there are inaccuracies. im pretty agnostic. but i dont believe what you guys do.. . anyway its impossible to know that what lds preaches is all true. lds teaches that there is an afterlife, but you can only have faith in this idea. you will only know if it is true when you die. if there is an afterlife, then you are in the position to know that lds' teaching  about the afterlife is true. but because nobody alive truly knows death (is there anything to know?), we can only hope for experience  to continue after death... but maybe i am wrong and a ghost is a member of this forum?

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We believe it is, in fact, possible to know with an absolute certainty that the Church is true (and by extension that the Book of Mormon is true, that the Bible is true, that Jesus is the Christ, etc.).

Edited by altersteve
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While I'm not going to disclose fully the experiences related to me by family and friends to an anonymous Internet poster (nor do I have permission to do so), I accept the reality of life after death.  Do with that declaration  what you will.

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That's fine that you have had experiences  that you have interpreted to indicate reality of life after death. But then, people of all faiths will say that, I have had experiences that indicate that consciousness is not necessarily dependant on the conditions of 'this world'. However, all we have is our interpretations, how do you know that it's not you own subjectivity clouding your judgement?

 

I do not think it is possible to know about the reality of post-death experience with absolute certainty unless you have fully died. and if someone 'dies' then comes back to life (like many people who have allegedly died before have), I would probably argue that the our issue is semantic in nature. and they only appeared to have died. IF someone is dead, they are dead. 

 

Furthermore, the people who approach death are perhaps the most qualified to talk on this matter. Then why is there so much variation in what is experienced? Some people think they meet Jesus, some people have no experience, some people come back and they become Muslims or Buddhists. Whether or not they are having legitimate experiences I do not know, but they are the best thing we probably have to go by, unless science develops an objective way to measure the phenomenon, but the scope of science hasn't reached such a capacity. 

 

Thus

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That's fine that you have had experiences  that you have interpreted to indicate reality of life after death. But then, people of all faiths will say that, I have had experiences that indicate that consciousness is not necessarily dependant on the conditions of 'this world'. However, all we have is our interpretations, how do you know that it's not you own subjectivity clouding your judgement?

 

I do not think it is possible to know about the reality of post-death experience with absolute certainty unless you have fully died. and if someone 'dies' then comes back to life (like many people who have allegedly died before have), I would probably argue that the our issue is semantic in nature. and they only appeared to have died. IF someone is dead, they are dead. 

 

Furthermore, the people who approach death are perhaps the most qualified to talk on this matter. Then why is there so much variation in what is experienced? Some people think they meet Jesus, some people have no experience, some people come back and they become Muslims or Buddhists. Whether or not they are having legitimate experiences I do not know, but they are the best thing we probably have to go by, unless science develops an objective way to measure the phenomenon, but the scope of science hasn't reached such a capacity. 

 

Thus

 

To be pragmatic what difference does it make it it leads one to lead a better life and provides comfort and happiness?

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to be pragmatic well lds teaches that what it believes about the afterlife is  factual. when we have established that we only truly know when death actually happens. you dont need a belief in after life to be a good person or feel comfortable or be happy. nobody on earth knows what lies beyond the veil

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what about the ex mormons who proclaim they are better, more honest and happier people as a result of leaving LDS?

 

God could very well have other plans for them for right now. Maybe the Church isn't quite where He wants them yet.

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to be pragmatic well lds teaches that what it believes about the afterlife is factual. when we have established that we only truly know when death actually happens.

When did we establish that?

I know that's your opinion, but I haven't seen it proven anywhere. Surely you wouldn't ask anyone to just accept your opinion on the subject.

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to be pragmatic well lds teaches that what it believes about the afterlife is  factual. when we have established that we only truly know when death actually happens. you dont need a belief in after life to be a good person or feel comfortable or be happy. nobody on earth knows what lies beyond the veil

 

The LDS are to live by faith. If our atheistic friends are correct. After we die none of us will know any differently.

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to be pragmatic well lds teaches that what it believes about the afterlife is  factual. when we have established that we only truly know when death actually happens. you dont need a belief in after life to be a good person or feel comfortable or be happy. nobody on earth knows what lies beyond the veil

 

For some of us this has been established.  I realize that for some it has not been but I can not nor will I be responsible for that.  I build my life on my own experiences and where they lead me.

 

No body is arguing the need for a belief in the afterlife to be a good person but that doesn't negate its importance in the lives of some, especially those who have had special spiritual experiences.

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That's fine that you have had experiences  that you have interpreted to indicate reality of life after death. But then, people of all faiths will say that, I have had experiences that indicate that consciousness is not necessarily dependant on the conditions of 'this world'. However, all we have is our interpretations, how do you know that it's not you own subjectivity clouding your judgement? ...

The Social Hall isn't for debate or arguing, but how could "[my] own subjectivity" be "clouding [my] judgment" in my evaluation of the experiences which others have related to me?  They are not my experiences, so how could "[my] own subjectivity" be "clouding [my] judgment"?  These experiences were related to me by reasonably sane, reasonably well-adjusted, reasonably intelligent individuals whose trustworthiness I have no reason to doubt.  Your only possible rejoinder, it seems to me, is, "Ahem. Well, yes.  They may have been reasonably sane, reasonably well-adjusted, reasonably intelligent, trustworthy individuals in all of your other dealings with them over a period of years [in fact, my entire lifetime in one case], but that's not sufficient reason for you to trust them now."  If you'd like to try that particular rejoinder, good luck! ;) 

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When did we establish that?

I know that's your opinion, but I haven't seen it proven anywhere. Surely you wouldn't ask anyone to just accept your opinion on the subject.

 

Fair enough, I'm not asking anybody to accept my opinion, im just saying things so that we can have a good old rational and open minded discussion. If i just told you to submit and accept my belief as true then that would be a little ...dogmatic right?

 

Do you think its good to believe something dogmatically?

 

The Social Hall isn't for debate or arguing, but how could "[my] own subjectivity" be "clouding [my] judgment" in my evaluation of the experiences which others have related to me?  They are not my experiences, so how could "[my] own subjectivity" be "clouding [my] judgment"?  These experiences were related to me by reasonably sane, reasonably well-adjusted, reasonably intelligent individuals whose trustworthiness I have no reason to doubt.  Your only possible rejoinder, it seems to me, is, "Ahem. Well, yes.  They may have been reasonably sane, reasonably well-adjusted, reasonably intelligent, trustworthy individuals in all of your other dealings with them over a period of years [in fact, my entire lifetime in one case], but that's not sufficient reason for you to trust them now."  If you'd like to try that particular rejoinder, good luck! ;)

 

Yes i agree, it would be good to start another thread up in the correct place. I'm unsure if i've hit the 25 post mark :)

 

I'll pass on the rejoinder and I would say that your subjectivity would still be clouding your judgement. because, when are we not subjective? I am of the belief that everything is subjective, but we have a degree of agency that we can practice to become more objective.. 

 

Who are these people? were they LDS? subjectivity is always there, how do you know these people were only experiencing 'spirit' through Mormon eyes? You say these people were sane and rational etc etc. I'm sure they were good people, but it doesn't mean that they had a completely objective interpretation of their special spiritual experience.

 

Subjectivity always shapes the way we see the world, and i would argue you can't separate objectivity from subjectivity. So your friends may appear quite rational people, but their objective side is still found in subjectivity. We could get really philosophical here but we don't need to. But lets say you counted all the people you have heard narrations of spiritual experiences from? and including your self, how many of them were- for example- LDS? Buddhist? Muslim? 

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Fair enough, I'm not asking anybody to accept my opinion, im just saying things so that we can have a good old rational and open minded discussion. If i just told you to submit and accept my belief as true then that would be a little ...dogmatic right?

You're in luck, because one of the main tenets of Mormonism is that no one is supposed to accept it or any of its doctrines just because someone else says they are true.

:)

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