Someone Besides Me That Has Practical Experience With Islam?

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't really want to be tiresome to anyone on this issue, so I would like to start a private conversation with someone who has practical experience with Islam to help me finally resolve some faith issues around it and Mormon belief. Until now, I have felt that I could be both. Could that be wrong?

[cdowis]

Dan Peterson is the man.

 

He has an interesting video on youtube comparing the Book of Mormon with the Koran, if that is helpful.

[Stargazer]

Dan Peterson is the man.

 

He has an interesting video on youtube comparing the Book of Mormon with the Koran, if that is helpful.

Dr. Peterson's talk on comparing the BoM with the Koran is here:

Dr. Peterson posts here from time to time. I've PM'ed him here a couple of times and he's not responded, but perhaps he would to you.  Here is a link to his user profile on this forum.

He also wrote a well-regarded biography of Mohammed. See Amazon.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Stargazer

[thesometimesaint]

Dr. Peterson's talk on comparing the BoM with the Koran is here:

Dr. Peterson posts here from time to time. I've PM'ed him here a couple of times and he's not responded, but perhaps he would to you.  Here is a link to his user profile on this forum.

He also wrote a well-regarded biography of Mohammed. See Amazon.

 

From what I understand Dr. Peterson is a pretty busy guy. But he is definitely a "Go To" for help.

[EllenMaksoud]

Just keeping notes as I listen to Dan Peterson.

 

Muhammad PBUH spent a lot of time studying with Jews and Christians. In his pre-revelation years, he was a trader that did a lot of traveling and was exposed to several different cultures. After he started Islam, there was a certain Christian scholar who was given exclusive permission to visit him.

 

I have not understood why Muslims forcefully believe that Muhammad PBUH was the last prophet. I know that Muhammad said it, but I disagree.

 

Muhammad PBUH was the author of the "Constitution of Medina" the first document in human history to define rights for Women.

 

Have any of you actually listened to this video? After listening to Prof. Peterson, I rest my case ...

 

I have not heard the idea in Islam that Allah SWT can not be seen.

 

My experience in Islam is at the cultural level, not at the scholarly level.

 

In talking about Lucy Mack Smith cleaning around the tablets.  Every woman knows that she had a good look at them.

 

The idea of submission in Islam, had made me a better Mormon. I understand absolute adoration of Heavenly Father. The Muslim Prayer ritual, 5 times a day, made me understand adoration of Heavenly Father.

 

To be very clear, it is my belief that I needed the effects of Islam before I was approached about Mormonism.

 

It was a good video.

[EllenMaksoud]

A man told me today that I hang onto Islam in case the Mormons don't work out. Why would he say that?

[Stargazer]

The person who told you that sounds like a spoilsport.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Stargazer

[Calm]

A man told me today that I hang onto Islam in case the Mormons don't work out. Why would he say that?

Probably because that is how he see himself behaving in your situation.

[EllenMaksoud]

Probably because that is how he see himself behaving in your situation.

I know these things without reservation. I know that I have seen mercy from Heavenly Father in a way so special, I will always remember it. I have not found a way to worship and thank Heavenly Father that helps me to feel the connection with him that is stronger than the Muslim way I pray. No one can possibly be on your hands and knees, and your forehead on the floor saying thank you God, and please forgive me, and not feel the connection with him.

 

The power of a priesthood blessing is undeniable.

 

"More Holiness Give Me" gives me chills.

 

When I was Baptized I was reborn.

 

The Book of Mormon never seemed unreasonable to me.

 

The sacrifice of early Mormons is amazing.

 

Mormons are the only ones I know who totally commit to living the Gospel.

 

I was completely lost and without hope and Heavenly Father brought me to the Mormons.

 

I could keep going on this all night.

 

The fact that I believe in the Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith was a Prophet and that the President of the church is also, should go without saying.

Edited November 19, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Dan Peterson is the man.

 

He has an interesting video on youtube comparing the Book of Mormon with the Koran, if that is helpful.

Read the chapter he wrote in "Mormonism and Mormons", (I believe this is the name of the book) he has some great insights.

[telnetd]

I have not heard the idea in Islam that Allah SWT can not be seen.

 

I have read the Quran. There is nothing to indicate faithful Muslims

cannot see Allah sometime in the future.  But on the other hand, the

Quranic messages of paradise never do mention them seeing or

worshipping Allah there. The theme is gardens, shade, reclining on

couches, streams of water, and maidens (i.e. virgins.  72 of them for

those who die in the highest cause of Islam I think is mentioned in a

hadith).

 

The angels of God apparently see and worship God for they are in

his presence.

 

Gail

[EllenMaksoud]

I have read the Quran. There is nothing to indicate faithful Muslims

cannot see Allah sometime in the future.  But on the other hand, the

Quranic messages of paradise never do mention them seeing or

worshipping Allah there. The theme is gardens, shade, reclining on

couches, streams of water, and maidens (i.e. virgins.  72 of them for

those who die in the highest cause of Islam I think is mentioned in a

hadith).

 

The angels of God apparently see and worship God for they are in

his presence.

 

Gail

One of the issues for Muslims is the Hadeeths and Fatwas. Frankly I don't like them.  There is a small group of Muslims who only recognize the Qur'an and nothing else. My guess is that a Muslim would say that only Muhammad PBUH and perhaps Abraham PBUH have seen Allah SWT.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I don't really want to be tiresome to anyone on this issue, so I would like to start a private conversation with someone who has practical experience with Islam to help me finally resolve some faith issues around it and Mormon belief. Until now, I have felt that I could be both. Could that be wrong?

I have friend for 27 years now whom I hired who is Muslim...we have has many doctrinal talks over the years. So would I qualify.

[EllenMaksoud]

I have friend for 27 years now whom I hired who is Muslim...we have has many doctrinal talks over the years. So would I qualify.

Yes, It is late, so I will have to catch up with you later.

[rongo]

Ellen:

 

My experience on my mission (northern Germany, mid 1990s) was that good Muslims (really good ones, not the "inactive" ones ---- and there are certainly many of those, as well)   make excellent Mormon converts. I think your background in Islam does provide you with some good things that help you live Mormonism.

 

If you believe the foundational elements of the Restoration (through ministering of angels, priesthood keys, etc.) and make and keep your covenants through the Priesthood, I don't see any harm in you continuing to have connections with Islamic thought. You may have problems reconciling things like God having a physical body, living on an earth, etc. --- unless you believe Mormon doctrine on this and it isn't an issue for you.

 

Side question: I had Muslim investigators tell me that the Koran could only legitimately be read in Arabic (when I asked for a copy of the Koran in English). Is that a prevailing thought? It would make global missionary work kind of hard, wouldn't it?

[EllenMaksoud]

Ellen:

 

My experience on my mission (northern Germany, mid 1990s) was that good Muslims (really good ones, not the "inactive" ones ---- and there are certainly many of those, as well)   make excellent Mormon converts. I think your background in Islam does provide you with some good things that help you live Mormonism.

 

If you believe the foundational elements of the Restoration (through ministering of angels, priesthood keys, etc.) and make and keep your covenants through the Priesthood, I don't see any harm in you continuing to have connections with Islamic thought. You may have problems reconciling things like God having a physical body, living on an earth, etc. --- unless you believe Mormon doctrine on this and it isn't an issue for you.

 

Side question: I had Muslim investigators tell me that the Koran could only legitimately be read in Arabic (when I asked for a copy of the Koran in English). Is that a prevailing thought? It would make global missionary work kind of hard, wouldn't it?

What many people are is narrow minded; deprived of the other person's point of view; not knowing that from another perspective your own "perspective" could just be um hokum.

 

Classic Arabic is no longer spoken and not understood by many but scholars, and their point of view may be quite biased. The holy Qur'an is written in Classical Arabic. So, while it is the same since it was written it is hard to understand because Classical Arabic is well gone from society.  As to global missionary work, lots of Middle Easterners speak English, especially those from KSA, and I think that Arabic can be learned. My vision is that one day, Mormon missionaries will stand in the streets in Mecca, Saudi Arabia and at least talk about Jesus Christ there.

 

If you have any interest, look up Surah 4:34:

 

Sahih International

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

 

That passage bothered me a lot because I felt I'd had enough beating. Still, I know that the Bible, and Qur'an support the idea that the husband is the boss. As it turns out, if you talk to a dozen Muslims, none of them agree if a man may beat his wife or not. It was really telling to me when I talked to a Saudi National that I had known for years and he told me that men are NOT to beat their wives, and like in Mormonism, husband and wife are to work things out.

 

Personally,  Genesis 3:16 is hard to ignore. And, if he is 6'3" and I am 5'2 if times get tense, guess who wins sometimes?

 

Cultural Islam, prepared me to become Mormon. I've had to work out some things though and as I do, Mormonism rises to the top more and more.

 

[thesometimesaint]

 

What many people are is narrow minded; deprived of the other person's point of view; not knowing that from another perspective your own "perspective" could just be um hokum.

 

Classic Arabic is no longer spoken and not understood by many but scholars, and their point of view may be quite biased. The holy Qur'an is written in Classical Arabic. So, while it is the same since it was written it is hard to understand because Classical Arabic is well gone from society.  As to global missionary work, lots of Middle Easterners speak English, especially those from KSA, and I think that Arabic can be learned. My vision is that one day, Mormon missionaries will stand in the streets in Mecca, Saudi Arabia and at least talk about Jesus Christ there.

 

If you have any interest, look up Surah 4:34:

 

Sahih International

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

 

That passage bothered me a lot because I felt I'd had enough beating. Still, I know that the Bible, and Qur'an support the idea that the husband is the boss. As it turns out, if you talk to a dozen Muslims, none of them agree if a man may beat his wife or not. It was really telling to me when I talked to a Saudi National that I had known for years and he told me that men are NOT to beat their wives, and like in Mormonism, husband and wife are to work things out.

 

Personally,  Genesis 3:16 is hard to ignore. And, if he is 6'3" and I am 5'2 if times get tense, guess who wins sometimes?

 

Cultural Islam, prepared me to become Mormon. I've had to work out some things though and as I do, Mormonism rises to the top more and more.

 

 

 

God didn't make all men equal. Mr. Colt did.

[LApplegate]

I know these things without reservation. I know that I have seen mercy from Heavenly Father in a way so special, I will always remember it. I have not found a way to worship and thank Heavenly Father that helps me to feel the connection with him that is stronger than the Muslim way I pray. No one can possibly be on your hands and knees, and your forehead on the floor saying thank you God, and please forgive me, and not feel the connection with him.

 

The power of a priesthood blessing is undeniable.

 

"More Holiness Give Me" gives me chills.

 

When I was Baptized I was reborn.

 

The Book of Mormon never seemed unreasonable to me.

 

The sacrifice of early Mormons is amazing.

 

Mormons are the only ones I know who totally commit to living the Gospel.

 

I was completely lost and without hope and Heavenly Father brought me to the Mormons.

 

I could keep going on this all night.

 

The fact that I believe in the Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith was a Prophet and that the President of the church is also, should go without saying.

I just joined this forum & I am probably the last person who should comment on anything, daughter of a Bishop un married teen pregnant.. that was 23 years ago... and today I have such a strong testimony of the gospel. Ive struggled for years with the LDS churches beleifs.. it wasnt until I stopped questioning my Heavenly Father, & let the spirit speak to me that I was able to hear it. You wont know until your ready to know. Thats okay because its not in our time.. it is in His time.

[EllenMaksoud]

I just joined this forum & I am probably the last person who should comment on anything, daughter of a Bishop un married teen pregnant.. that was 23 years ago... and today I have such a strong testimony of the gospel. Ive struggled for years with the LDS churches beleifs.. it wasnt until I stopped questioning my Heavenly Father, & let the spirit speak to me that I was able to hear it. You wont know until your ready to know. Thats okay because its not in our time.. it is in His time.

I am not in doubt about The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It is unclear to me why my experiences in Islam do not fade into the background. Were it not for the words of President Gordon B Hinckley, "bring what is good to you and let us add to it", would feel quite guilty and confused.

 

It is comforting to be able to put certain aspects of church theology that I do not understand, because I have not experienced them, on a shelf to address another time.