Christ In The Pews

[Sojourner_22]

Hello Everyone!

As this is my first day (and post) on the boards, let me introduce myself.   

My name is Matt. I'm a 28 y/o father of two living in the greater Phoenix area. I'm not a Mormon, but rather I'm a Evangelical protestant.

I've signed up to this board because I am genuinely interested in Mormon theology, specifically as it is understood and lived out by its followers. I have no wish to belittle, disparage, or debate any views here- I'm simply curious and seeking to understand.

If people are willing to talk, I'm most curious about the person of Christ as understood in Mormonism. Not simply what I can find on lds.org, but what do 'people in the pews' believe? What is understood about his: deity, uniqueness or similarity to humanity, his relationship to the Father, or anything else that seem pertinent. Thanks beforehand for the responses, and have a blessed day.

-M
 

[altersteve]

The most important thing to believe about anything is that the Savior and His Father love each of us dearly. Every other part of my faith stems from that.

[teddyaware]

Hello Everyone!

As this is my first day (and post) on the boards, let me introduce myself.   

My name is Matt. I'm a 28 y/o father of two living in the greater Phoenix area. I'm not a Mormon, but rather I'm a Evangelical protestant.

I've signed up to this board because I am genuinely interested in Mormon theology, specifically as it is understood and lived out by its followers. I have no wish to belittle, disparage, or debate any views here- I'm simply curious and seeking to understand.

If people are willing to talk, I'm most curious about the person of Christ as understood in Mormonism. Not simply what I can find on lds.org, but what do 'people in the pews' believe? What is understood about his: deity, uniqueness or similarity to humanity, his relationship to the Father, or anything else that seem pertinent. Thanks beforehand for the responses, and have a blessed day.

-M

 

 

The following verses are among my favorite passages of scripture: They are found in the last book of the Book of Mormon. 

 

22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing. 

23 And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth, that Christ should come.

24 And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men, which were good; and all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them. (Moroni 7)

 

 

These verses teach us that without Christ mankind would be utterly lost and would neither be able to receive nor do any good. No matter what blessings of goodness mankind might receive, such as the blessings of eyesight, mobility, the ability to communicate, the ability to do good for one another, the ability to love, and all other good things, none would be possible without the incomparable Christ and His infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice.

Edited November 9, 2013 by teddyaware

[Sojourner_22]

Thank you both!

I further question I thought I had written down but forgot to include before, is Christ eternally existent?

[teddyaware]

Thank you both!

I further question I thought I had written down but forgot to include before, is Christ eternally existent?

 

Yes, Christ is eternally existent. But though eternally existent, he experienced certain outward changes that might confuse some when speaking specifically of an eternally existent, unchangeable being. For example, one of the changes in state He experienced is that though He existed as God as an unembodied Spirit, His Spirit was later enrobed in an earthly body He did not yet possess before His birth on earth. So some might be confused because though eternally existent, he did not always exist as a being of fleshly tabernacle. Another change in state came when His earthy tabernacle died and was raised from the dead into a now glorified body of flesh and bone. So paradoxically, though Christ is eternally existent, nevertheless He experience eternally significant and important outward changes,

 

To even further confuse things, even though we are told He was the perfect God before He dwelt on earth, we are later told that somehow, while on earth, he grew in grace and finally was made perfect, even though we are told He already was perfect...

 

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[Calm]

For me...

 

There are two facets to understanding how and why God is willing to have a relationship with us and the first is the Atonement and all that implies about how far God is willing to go to have us with him and the second is:

 

 

Moses 1:39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

 

 

LDS understand "eternal life" as living with God, not just living forever.

 

[Sojourner_22]

Yes, Christ is eternally existent. But though eternally existent, he experienced certain outward changes that might confuse some when speaking specifically of an eternally existent, unchangeable being. For example, one of the changes in state He experienced is that though He existed as God as an unembodied Spirit, His Spirit was later enrobed in an earthly body He did not yet possess before His birth on earth. So some might be confused because though eternally existent, he did not always exist as a being of fleshly tabernacle. Another change in state came when His earthy tabernacle died and was raised from the dead into a now glorified body of flesh and bone. So paradoxically, though Christ is eternally existent, nevertheless He experience eternally significant and important outward changes...

Thanks, teddyaware.

Is the preincarnate Christ mentioned in the OT, or does he first come onto the scene at his birth? Is YHWH, Jehovah, or Elohim, Christ? Or are these references to the Father?

 

[Sojourner_22]

 

For me...

 

There are two facets to understanding how and why God is willing to have a relationship with us and the first is the Atonement and all that implies about how far God is willing to go to have us with him and the second is:

 

LDS understand "eternal life" as living with God, not just living forever.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Would you mind defining what you mean by the 'Atonement'?

[Sojourner_22]

Thanks!

 

Would you mind defining what you mean by the 'Atonement'?

 

Hit "Post" too soon. In Moses 1, who is speaking? God the Father or Jesus Christ?

[JLHPROF]

...what do 'people in the pews' believe? What is understood about his: deity, uniqueness or similarity to humanity, his relationship to the Father, or anything else that seem pertinent. Thanks beforehand for the responses, and have a blessed day.

 

 

Now, when you ask for "people in the pews" you do occasionally get non-official doctrines, but here is my answer to your question.

 

When it comes to Christ I believe that the Mormon pre-existence doctrine plays a big part.  In Mormonism "Godhood" or deity is a state to be achieved.  I believe that when God was planning this world for us, his spirit children, his chose his birthright heir, Jesus Christ, to stand at his side.  Jesus Christ achieved his claim on Godhood through his actions in this pre-existence, and as such only needed to pass from spirit through mortality to gain a physical body to resurrect, being already perfected.

Now, as a resurrected, perfect being and Gods heir, he receives all that God has, and we can become joint-heirs with him.

 

So I believe that Christ is human, just like us.   However, he achieved the right to exaltation and Godhood before it was actually claimed after his resurrection.

 

Just my opinion...

[Sojourner_22]

Now, when you ask for "people in the pews" you do occasionally get non-official doctrines, but here is my answer to your question.

 

When it comes to Christ I believe that the Mormon pre-existence doctrine plays a big part.  In Mormonism "Godhood" or deity is a state to be achieved.  I believe that when God was planning this world for us, his spirit children, his chose his birthright heir, Jesus Christ, to stand at his side.  Jesus Christ achieved his claim on Godhood through his actions in this pre-existence, and as such only needed to pass from spirit through mortality to gain a physical body to resurrect, being already perfected.

Now, as a resurrected, perfect being and Gods heir, he receives all that God has, and we can become joint-heirs with him.

 

So I believe that Christ is human, just like us.   However, he achieved the right to exaltation and Godhood before it was actually claimed after his resurrection.

 

Just my opinion...

Thanks for sharing your insight!

[teddyaware]

Thanks, teddyaware.

Is the preincarnate Christ mentioned in the OT, or does he first come onto the scene at his birth? Is YHWH, Jehovah, or Elohim, Christ? Or are these references to the Father?

  

 

 

Though there is an acknowledgement among some in the LDS scholarly community that there are instances in the Bible when the title Jehovah appears to be referring to God the Father, most generally speaking, the Latter-day Saints identify the title of Jehovah as referring to the pre-existent, as well as the resurrected Saviour, Jesus Christ.

  

Edited November 9, 2013 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

Now, when you ask for "people in the pews" you do occasionally get non-official doctrines, but here is my answer to your question.

 

When it comes to Christ I believe that the Mormon pre-existence doctrine plays a big part.  In Mormonism "Godhood" or deity is a state to be achieved.  I believe that when God was planning this world for us, his spirit children, his chose his birthright heir, Jesus Christ, to stand at his side.  Jesus Christ achieved his claim on Godhood through his actions in this pre-existence, and as such only needed to pass from spirit through mortality to gain a physical body to resurrect, being already perfected.

Now, as a resurrected, perfect being and Gods heir, he receives all that God has, and we can become joint-heirs with him.

 

So I believe that Christ is human, just like us.   However, he achieved the right to exaltation and Godhood before it was actually claimed after his resurrection.

 

Just my opinion...

 

 Adding my two cents. Renowned LDS Apostle and scholar James E. Talmage taught that Jesus was peccable, meaning He was morally accountable before His Father and had full latitude of freedom, just like the rest of the human race, to chose good or evil. Therefore, during His earthly sojourn, Christ was not an automaton of sorts who had no choice but to do that which was right. He had to overcome evil by faith in the Father, just like the rest of us. And He succeeded marvelously!  

[teddyaware]

 

Hit "Post" too soon. In Moses 1, who is speaking? God the Father or Jesus Christ?

 

The following is from the Pearl of Great Price student manual:

 

The personage who spoke to Moses was the premortal Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. Being one with Heavenly Father, Jesus at times speaks as if He were God the Father (see Moses 1:6). This is known as divine investiture, whereby Christ is invested with authority to speak for and in behalf of the Father (see also D&C 29:1, 42, 46).

[Coreyb]

Though there is an acknowledgement among some in the LDS scholarly community that there are instances in the Bible when the title Jehovah appears to be referring to God the Father, most generally speaking, the Latter-day Saints identify the title of Jehovah as referring to the pre-existent, as well as the resurrected Saviour, Jesus Christ.

  

As I understand there are also places where the word Elohim is used as a title for Jehovah, but in general LDS use Jehovah and Elohim to refer to Christ and His Father respectively. Also as I understand, the God speaking in Moses 1 is Jesus Christ  but he is speaking in behalf of The Father, using divine investiture of authority, the same way angels speak for Christ in the first person. Kinda confusing, read Jesus the Christ by Talmage.

[teddyaware]

As I understand there are also places where the word Elohim is used as a title for Jehovah, but in general LDS use Jehovah and Elohim to refer to Christ and His Father respectively. Also as I understand, the God speaking in Moses 1 is Jesus Christ  but he is speaking in behalf of The Father, using divine investiture of authority, the same way angels speak for Christ in the first person. Kinda confusing, read Jesus the Christ by Talmage.

 

Read the above post and you'll see I beat you to it!

[Coreyb]

yeah, I type slow  

[teddyaware]

Thanks!

 

Would you mind defining what you mean by the 'Atonement'?

 

The atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ refers to his vicariously suffering physically and spiritually for sin in behalf of every human who has lived, is living or will live upon the earth; and this that all might obtain a remission of sin and a clear conscience on condition of genuine repentance.

 

The atonement of the Lord also bespeaks of an infinite and eternal sacrifice whereby Christ experienced spiritual death and estrangement from His Father, sacrificing all His Holiness, divine power and godly attributes that those who exercise living faith in him might become joint heirs with Him, inheriting with Him all the heavenly treasures He Himself inherited.

 

Finally, the atonement refers to the glorious resurrection and ascension of Christ into the fullness of heavenly glory, whereby he is enabled to make all of His promises of remission of sin and divine empowerment available to all who take His name upon them.

Edited November 9, 2013 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

yeah, I type slow

 

I'll bet you can type faster than I. I'm one of those two index finger typists, if I can indeed be called a typist!

[Sojourner_22]

Everyone, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. I truly appreciate the willingness to talk me through your beliefs. Have a fantastic day!

 

Matt

Rom. 15:13

[cinepro]

If people are willing to talk, I'm most curious about the person of Christ as understood in Mormonism. Not simply what I can find on lds.org, but what do 'people in the pews' believe? What is understood about his: deity, uniqueness or similarity to humanity, his relationship to the Father, or anything else that seem pertinent. Thanks beforehand for the responses, and have a blessed day.

-M

 

 

When it comes to Jesus, I think you'll find most "people in the pews" aspire to believe exactly what is taught on the official Church website.  So your best bet is to read as much as you can there (as others have pointed out, most of your questions are plainly and authoritatively answered there). 

 

It might be less social, but it you're sincerely interested in learning, it's the most direct and reliable route to take.

 

If you wanted to know if the "people in the pews" didn't believe some of what was taught on the Church website, then that would be an interesting discussion here, but you'd have to know what the Church teaches first.

[Meadowchik]

Hello Everyone!

As this is my first day (and post) on the boards, let me introduce myself.   

My name is Matt. I'm a 28 y/o father of two living in the greater Phoenix area. I'm not a Mormon, but rather I'm a Evangelical protestant.

I've signed up to this board because I am genuinely interested in Mormon theology, specifically as it is understood and lived out by its followers. I have no wish to belittle, disparage, or debate any views here- I'm simply curious and seeking to understand.

If people are willing to talk, I'm most curious about the person of Christ as understood in Mormonism. Not simply what I can find on lds.org, but what do 'people in the pews' believe? What is understood about his: deity, uniqueness or similarity to humanity, his relationship to the Father, or anything else that seem pertinent. Thanks beforehand for the responses, and have a blessed day.

-M

 

 

Hey, Welcome! 

 

I'm new to the forum but have been a member all my life.

 

From my earliest memory, God, including Christ, meant love.  We are God's children.  Christ died for us, it was a work Christ did out of his love for his father, and also his love for us. 

 

Christ and Heavenly Father are separate persons but one in purpose.  Christ's power flows out of his oneness with the Father.

 

One of my favorite scriptures is in John, when Christ says his "meat" is to do the will of his Father; I interpret it to mean that, as we live and survive on the Bread of Life who is Christ, what fills and replenishes Christ is the good relationship with his father.

 

Christ can also be considered our Father.  Heavenly Father (and Mother) created our spirits out of intelligences.  Christ helped create the earth, therefore made it possible for us to come to earth in physical form through our earthly parents. Christ also made it possible for us to return to the Father by being Mediator, so in a way Christ is the Father of Salvation.

 

Christ taught us to love like i the Golden Rule, but he went above that, too, when he commanded the disciples to love as he loves them, not merely as they'd want to be loved.  Those are two different things.  It's one thing to love in a quid-pro-quo fashion, it's entirely another to love as Christ would love.  That is the divine standard. (Not to go too much on a tangent, but that divine standard for loving others is imo the foundation--though not perfectly modeled-- for all civility and democracy in the modern world.)

 

Jesus Christ is our brother, mediator, and Savior.  He suffered all we suffer in Gethsemane and he died for us on Calvary. Christ suffered for our sins and also felt all our pain.  He descended below all so that he could lift every single one of us up.

 

I believe in Christ!

[rpn]

No one here has mentioned our Heavenly Parents.   Christ does Their (often in our language just Father, but we have a Heavenly Mother too who is one with Him ) will and is aligned wholly with Their will because of His own choice to follow Them.  

f

[Meadowchik]

No one here has mentioned our Heavenly Parents. Christ does Their (often in our language just Father, but we have a Heavenly Mother too who is one with Him ) will and is aligned wholly with Their will because of His own choice to follow Them.

f

Ftr I did mention Heavenly Father and Mother.

[Rivers]

When it comes to Jesus, I think you'll find most "people in the pews" aspire to believe exactly what is taught on the official Church website. So your best bet is to read as much as you can there (as others have pointed out, most of your questions are plainly and authoritatively answered there).

It might be less social, but it you're sincerely interested in learning, it's the most direct and reliable route to take.

If you wanted to know if the "people in the pews" didn't believe some of what was taught on the Church website, then that would be an interesting discussion here, but you'd have to know what the Church teaches first.

Does the church website ever use the term Elder Brother in reference to Jesus?