I Dislike Having To Look Out For Crafty People.

[EllenMaksoud]

Geeze folks, my theology is messed up enough that it makes it difficult to stay on the true Mormon path. Some of you on this board sometimes warn me of people who seem to come here to deliberately trip people up. Once in a while these "not of our community" "people" come in here and really give me pause, and I dis like it and hate their motives, and I dis like feeling anger.

 

Please keep all posts that are about your personal thoughts or feelings in the Social Hall.

[Tacenda]

Geeze folks, my theology is messed up enough that it makes it difficult to stay on the true Mormon path. Some of you on this board sometimes warn me of people who seem to come here to deliberately trip people up. Once in a while these "not of our community" "people" come in here and really give me pause, and I dis like it and hate their motives, and I dis like feeling anger.

The church is perfect but the people aren't, repeat three times. ETA: Oops, maybe these aren't members you're speaking of. Care to mention why they give you pause? And just to warn you there are going to be plenty more that will. I think the church is going to go through a big transition one day, and I hope it can survive to be the church that will really do what it professes to do and that is to lead people back to HF! Edited October 28, 2013 by Tacenda

[EllenMaksoud]

The church is perfect but the people aren't, repeat three times.

Yes, and then click my heels. 

[strappinglad]

Matthew 19: 17 Note that at that time even Christ did not include Himself in the 'good' category. All you should do is " pray for those who despitefully use you " .

[canard78]

The church is perfect but the people aren't, repeat three times. ETA: Oops, maybe these aren't members you're speaking of. Care to mention why they give you pause? And just to warn you there are going to be plenty more that will. I think the church is going to go through a big transition one day, and I hope it can survive to be the church that will really do what it professes to do and that is to lead people back to HF!

 

Tacenda, the church isn't perfect.

 

"God is perfect, his doctrines are pure."

 

But the church is an organisation made for and administered by humans. It was revealed and organised through humans. It is not possible to be perfect.

 

Ellen, I enjoy your contribution. This board is traditionally the place to discuss the challenging aspects of Mormon history/doctrine. I'm in know way trying to make you leave, but there are boards that have less tolerance for debate and challenging questions. LDS.net is such a board. If you are seeking LDS fellowship online but no "crafty people" then LDS.net might be a better environment for you.

[thesometimesaint]

Geeze folks, my theology is messed up enough that it makes it difficult to stay on the true Mormon path. Some of you on this board sometimes warn me of people who seem to come here to deliberately trip people up. Once in a while these "not of our community" "people" come in here and really give me pause, and I dis like it and hate their motives, and I dis like feeling anger.

 

We are to be wiser than serpents, and gentler than doves.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda, the church isn't perfect.

"God is perfect, his doctrines are pure."

But the church is an organisation made for and administered by humans. It was revealed and organised through humans. It is not possible to be perfect.

Ellen, I enjoy your contribution. This board is traditionally the place to discuss the challenging aspects of Mormon history/doctrine. I'm in know way trying to make you leave, but there are boards that have less tolerance for debate and challenging questions. LDS.net is such a board. If you are seeking LDS fellowship online but no "crafty people" then LDS.net might be a better environment for you.

Just repeating what my mom would tell me, but come to find out....it always isn't perfect.

Btw, I think Ellen already tried LDS.net, personally I think she would be bored too easily over there. She is such a unique individual with quite the backstory. I don't know too many like her and over there they just might not appreciate her as much as we do. And over there they can't be as open in conversation as it is here, believe it or not.

[The Grimace]

What does the holy ghost tell you, Ellen? I've always been taught the holy ghost doesn't work in places like bars and strip joints, maybe it doesn't work on the internet, too?

 

I'm just guessing, but I thought the Holy Ghost would help you in these situations.

[jkwilliams]

Geeze folks, my theology is messed up enough that it makes it difficult to stay on the true Mormon path. Some of you on this board sometimes warn me of people who seem to come here to deliberately trip people up. Once in a while these "not of our community" "people" come in here and really give me pause, and I dis like it and hate their motives, and I dis like feeling anger.

 

What have these people said that has made you angry and feel they have bad motives?

[The Nehor]

That is why they changed from homemaking to enrichment. All that crafting was making people craftier.

[canard78]

That is why they changed from homemaking to enrichment. All that crafting was making people craftier.

Have to admit I thought the thread was going to be on that definition of the word too. I'd have been in more agreement then. Scrap-booking is eeeeviiiil.

[EllenMaksoud]

What have these people said that has made you angry and feel they have bad motives?

Not anger exactly, but frustration more that certain people would come here to deliberately distort LDS doctrine. And, I have discovered that doctrine about so called "God Head" is not universally practiced within the church. I am good with that because I would be the last one on Earth to force someone to believe as I do. In my declining years, I get confused between Evangelical, LDS and Muslim beliefs, so I can not really rely on my own feelings, I have to go look things up. The doctrine about us becoming Gods is something I am very uncertain of and must go look it up each time the subject comes up.

 

I am not saying that any part of the LDS doctrine is false, only that my own brain is becoming less efficient.

 

One person recently even quoted Mosiah 2:21 that taken alone seems to make our lives futile, but did not quote verse 22 which explained that previous verse.  This happens very commonly in both Evangelical Christianity and in Islam.  Of course, now days Islam is an easy target because of all the warring in those cultures.

[Stargazer]

Not anger exactly, but frustration more that certain people would come here to deliberately distort LDS doctrine. And, I have discovered that doctrine about so called "God Head" is not universally practiced within the church. I am good with that because I would be the last one on Earth to force someone to believe as I do. In my declining years, I get confused between Evangelical, LDS and Muslim beliefs, so I can not really rely on my own feelings, I have to go look things up. The doctrine about us becoming Gods is something I am very uncertain of and must go look it up each time the subject comes up.

 

I am not saying that any part of the LDS doctrine is false, only that my own brain is becoming less efficient.

 

One person recently even quoted Mosiah 2:21 that taken alone seems to make our lives futile, but did not quote verse 22 which explained that previous verse.  This happens very commonly in both Evangelical Christianity and in Islam.  Of course, now days Islam is an easy target because of all the warring in those cultures.

 

Wow, be glad you weren't here in the OLD days, then.  This place seemed far more brutal a few years ago, until the site owner laid down the law and started banning some rather egregious posters (on BOTH sides, no less).  It has been much more friendly since then.

[EllenMaksoud]

Wow, be glad you weren't here in the OLD days, then.  This place seemed far more brutal a few years ago, until the site owner laid down the law and started banning some rather egregious posters (on BOTH sides, no less).  It has been much more friendly since then.

Well, I am thankful for that. I am greatly appreciative that there is a site where discussion of LDS beliefs is possible.

[theplains]

...but frustration more that certain people would come here to deliberately distort LDS doctrine...I get confused between Evangelical, LDS and Muslim beliefs, so I can not really rely on my own feelings, I have to go look things up. The doctrine about us becoming Gods is something I am very uncertain of and must go look it up each time the subject comes up.

 

If you want to clear up your confusion about LDS beliefs, just read the manuals published

by your church.  Then you'll have to decide if what they write is the truth or a lie. The

thought of becoming like God or maybe even 'a' God (if that really was the context) was

such an allurement to Eve that she followed Lucifer's temptation.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Tacenda]

If you want to clear up your confusion about LDS beliefs, just read the manuals published

by your church. Then you'll have to decide if what they write is the truth or a lie. The

thought of becoming like God or maybe even 'a' God (if that really was the context) was

such an allurement to Eve that she followed Lucifer's temptation.

Thanks,

Jim

Makes one take pause if it's a good idea to believe in becoming gods one day.

[volgadon]

Makes one take pause if it's a good idea to believe in becoming gods one day.

 

 

Earlier today I revisited an old short story by John Collier, "Witch's Money." In it, an outsider moves into a tiny Pyrenean village and buys a house using a cheque. None of the villagers has seen a cheque before, and they end up murdering the outsider over a percieved injustice, taking all the cheques. Their morality keeps spiralling downwards. After reading this, should I burn my checkbook and cut up my debit cards?

[Calm]

 The

thought of becoming like God or maybe even 'a' God (if that really was the context) was

such an allurement to Eve that she followed Lucifer's temptation.

 

Or perhaps it was the thought she at least had a chance to obey God's commandment and follow his plan for us that caused her to act.

Edited October 31, 2013 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

deleted-- second thoughts, thanks to TSS's scripture below. 

Edited October 31, 2013 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

If you want to clear up your confusion about LDS beliefs, just read the manuals published

by your church.  Then you'll have to decide if what they write is the truth or a lie. The

thought of becoming like God or maybe even 'a' God (if that really was the context) was

such an allurement to Eve that she followed Lucifer's temptation.

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

The lie Lucifer told wasn't that A&E would become Gods. God confirms that they did become like him a few verses later. The lie was that they would not die. They did die. See Genesis 3:22

 

^22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

It is considered uncouth to tell people what they believe.

Edited October 31, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[thesometimesaint]

Cal, I just have problems with this.  It isn't what the majority of the Christian world believe.  They believe Eve sinned, and that is why God had to come down and take a physical body and sacrifice for us because of her decision, and Adams I guess.  Mormons don't believe it so much because in our article of faith we say we aren't judged by Adam's transgression.  Most Christians don't believe they are going to be a God.  They believe they can be perfected in Him.  This is what I've gleamed in the last few years.  I use to hold onto the thought that we will not be judged for the sins of Adam and Eve too.  Now, not so sure.  Maybe I've gone off the deep end.  The problem I have, is that we follow the admonition of Satan and not HF.  Was God playing with us, if so it's not my cup of tea, I don't like that kind of God.

 

Most Christians believe in some type of Theosis. The LDS are not totally dependent on the Bible for their beliefs. But the Bible itself accurately proclaims; We will sit with Christ of God the Fathers throne and recieve a crown of righteous. Additionally See John 17:20-26

[theplains]

The lie Lucifer told wasn't that A&E would become Gods. God confirms that they did become like him a few verses later. The lie was that they would not die. They did die. See Genesis 3:22

 

^22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

It is considered uncouth to tell people what they believe.

 

I believe Eve's greater temptation was the thought of becoming God-like (maybe she even

thought along the lines of becoming a Deity too) instead of the not-dying part. After all, she

had no reason to doubt God when he warned about the punishment of death. The LDS'

Gospel Principles says great blessings resulted from the Fall.

 

The same is generally true today. People want to rule their own life and not obey God (i.e.

they want to be a god who controls their own destiny). For some, their god is money. For

others, power. For others, they are their own god.  The devil's temptation is alive and well

even after all this time.

 

Regards,

Jim

[Stargazer]

I believe Eve's greater temptation was the thought of becoming God-like (maybe she even

thought along the lines of becoming a Deity too) instead of the not-dying part. After all, she

had no reason to doubt God when he warned about the punishment of death. The LDS'

Gospel Principles says great blessings resulted from the Fall.

 

The same is generally true today. People want to rule their own life and not obey God (i.e.

they want to be a god who controls their own destiny). For some, their god is money. For

others, power. For others, they are their own god.  The devil's temptation is alive and well

even after all this time.

 

Regards,

Jim

So... you're moving from telling the LDS what they believe to what Eve believed, and are a paleo-mindreader to boot? "Maybe she thought along the lines..."

You know, I am capable of psychoanalying the people with whom I live, for I see them every day and have some idea where they are coming from, but I don't feel competent to speculate what was in the mind of a person who lived thousands of years ago in conditions I can only imagine. Perhaps you are confident of your ability to do so, but I believe I may be excused for thinking you are waaaayyy off the reservation here.