Ghosts And Religion

[Stone holm]

Recently got in a long discussion on Facebook with a nephew who is a physician, about the existence or non existence of ghosts. He is an atheist and so not surprisingly he does not believe in them. What has surprised me over the years, however, is how many members do not believe in them. I am curious as to how an active member could somehow not believe in ghosts.

[Duncan]

I believe in visitations of comfort, to pass on information as one off experiences etc. but I don't believe in hauntings or poltergeists-mind you I believe that Satan is real as are his minions and they spook and startle us but they only have power over us as we give them

 

FWIW I laughed so hard at the Exorcist movie!!!

Edited October 27, 2013 by Duncan

[Stone holm]

In my response, i distinguished between ghosts and apparitions. The latter referring to examples of apparent spirits who constantly repeat the same actions which are more like holograms which are imprinted somehow on a specific location.

[strappinglad]

If members don't believe in at least ONE 'ghost', they have a serious problem with Mormon theology.

I find the response of the origin 12/10 to the appearance of the post resurrection Christ interesting. Ghost viewings have been around for an awfully long time. I wonder why if it is a non existent phenomenon .

Edited October 27, 2013 by strappinglad

[Stone holm]

If members don't believe in at least ONE 'ghost', they have a serious problem with Mormon theology.I find the response of the origin 12/10 to the appearance of the post resurrection Christ interesting. Ghost viewings have been around for an awfully long time. I wonder why if it is a non existent phenomenon .

I don't know, there seems to be an aversion to believing until one has an experience. My Nephew thinks it is all delusional.

[The Nehor]

 I am curious as to how an active member could somehow not believe in ghosts.

 

Believing in disembodied beings is basically a mandatory belief of LDS faith.

 

Saying you believe in ghosts though carries a lot of meanings that have been culturally added to the word. It brings to mind hauntings, paranormal investigators, mediums, etc.

 

I have had experiences with disembodied beings both positive and very negative and if someone asked me if I believed in ghosts the short answer would be "no" unless the term was clarified.

[Kenngo1969]

If members don't believe in at least ONE 'ghost', they have a serious problem with Mormon theology. ...

Is He Holy?

[Stone holm]

Believing in disembodied beings is basically a mandatory belief of LDS faith.

 

Saying you believe in ghosts though carries a lot of meanings that have been culturally added to the word. It brings to mind hauntings, paranormal investigators, mediums, etc.

 

I have had experiences with disembodied beings both positive and very negative and if someone asked me if I believed in ghosts the short answer would be "no" unless the term was clarified.

Yeah, my wife draws the same semantical distinction which sort of surprises me given the appellation given the third member of the Godhead.

[The Nehor]

Yeah, my wife draws the same semantical distinction which sort of surprises me given the appellation given the third member of the Godhead.

 

Which is actually just due to an archaic translation. Most modern translations do not use the word "ghost" and even in the King James version the same word is translated as both Ghost and Spirit.

[Stone holm]

Which is actually just due to an archaic translation. Most modern translations do not use the word "ghost" and even in the King James version the same word is translated as both Ghost and Spirit.

Interesting since the approved wording of a confirmation is "receive ye the Holy Ghost"

[Stone holm]

Interesting since the approved wording of a confirmation is "receive ye the Holy Ghost"

Similar usage in the baptismal rite

[The Nehor]

Interesting since the approved wording of a confirmation is "receive ye the Holy Ghost"

 

Based off of the Book of Mormon and D&C which took their lead on language from the KJV.

 

If we switched it we'd have some fundamentalist group breaking off over it and some crazy members suggesting in hushed tones that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit were two different people.

[Stone holm]

Based off of the Book of Mormon and D&C which took their lead on language from the KJV.

 

If we switched it we'd have some fundamentalist group breaking off over it and some crazy members suggesting in hushed tones that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit were two different people.

 

Heaven forbid we offend the Fundies...

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am a firm believer. I watch a lot of ghost hunting shows. Some of them are really bad. Some are fairly good. I would love to take your nephew to some of the places some of the ghost hunting crews have gone. I think he would have a different perspective.

[Stone holm]

I am a firm believer. I watch a lot of ghost hunting shows. Some of them are really bad. Some are fairly good. I would love to take your nephew to some of the places some of the ghost hunting crews have gone. I think he would have a different perspective.

 

Yeah, my son was the videographer for a couple guys that did a documentary on Vermont ghosts, he became a believer...

[Duncan]

I just don't buy it. I can't see how God would have spirits visiting back and forth hanging around some of their old places, to me it doesn't fit into the plan of salvation. people are taken home to that God who gave them live, not well, on the weekends you can come back and hang out at the bar you once owned and scare the schmoo out of people and then come back to the spirit world. I think some things are faked and Satan's unholy hooligans can get involved in things.

[rpn]

Of course there are spirits without bodies, hundreds of millions of them.  Some have had bodies and haven't yet been resurrected.  Some have not yet had bodies.   Some never will have bodies.   We know that the latter group mingle with all those who have bodies or once had bodies (though I rather think that temptations can only be fed through bodies so tempting someone without a body isn't worth the trouble, so maybe they don't have any reason to hang around the spirit world (either spirit prison or otherwise).

 

The doctrine and covenant even gives us specific instructions how to tell which kind of a spirit it is.   So whether the perception of ghost occurs when one of the disembodied spirits somehow gets out of whack with whatever his or her divine mission then is, or whether human perception of spirits crosses dimensions that are not part of the mortal experience purposefully, we just flat don't know.

 

No reason to be afraid, though, as there is the test of how to tell what from what.

[Stone holm]

I just don't buy it. I can't see how God would have spirits visiting back and forth hanging around some of their old places, to me it doesn't fit into the plan of salvation. people are taken home to that God who gave them live, not well, on the weekends you can come back and hang out at the bar you once owned and scare the schmoo out of people and then come back to the spirit world. I think some things are faked and Satan's unholy hooligans can get involved in things.

 

In the case of the "ghosts" that my son got introduced to during the documentary, they weren't really "ghosts" in the sense that we normally think of, in other words, disembodied spirits -- they were what I call "apparitiions" which appear to be some imprinting that occurs somehow -- usually with a very intense emmotional state on a site -- this type are the ones that appear doing the same thing over and over again.  Those aren't anything more than some kind of natural occurring holograph.  As to real "ghosts" in the sense of disembodied spirits,  I don't know what to tell you other than -- the Spirit World is not somewhere off in Space or in the sky, its here on Earth -- we just can't normally see them.  On the other hand, there appear to be times when the Lord does allow them to be seen in order to convey say a message to a grieving love one that they are okay, or to nag a descendant into doing their genealogy or to tell them where records are, etc.  Also, it appears that some people cannot be constrained within the veil like the Brother of Jared who saw the Lord's premortal finger touching the rocks.

[Duncan]

In the case of the "ghosts" that my son got introduced to during the documentary, they weren't really "ghosts" in the sense that we normally think of, in other words, disembodied spirits -- they were what I call "apparitiions" which appear to be some imprinting that occurs somehow -- usually with a very intense emmotional state on a site -- this type are the ones that appear doing the same thing over and over again.  Those aren't anything more than some kind of natural occurring holograph.  As to real "ghosts" in the sense of disembodied spirits,  I don't know what to tell you other than -- the Spirit World is not somewhere off in Space or in the sky, its here on Earth -- we just can't normally see them.  On the other hand, there appear to be times when the Lord does allow them to be seen in order to convey say a message to a grieving love one that they are okay, or to nag a descendant into doing their genealogy or to tell them where records are, etc.  Also, it appears that some people cannot be constrained within the veil like the Brother of Jared who saw the Lord's premortal finger touching the rocks.

 

 

yeah, like I believe in visitations as one off experiences, my G-Grandma had one in 1915 when her son was killed in WW1 but do I believe say his or anyone else's ghost haunts a French battlefield, no I don't. I don't know how imprinting fits into the plan of salvation and why some people's imprinting is allowed to happen over other's, no offense but it some too loosey goosey for me! hahhaha!

[Stone holm]

yeah, like I believe in visitations as one off experiences, my G-Grandma had one in 1915 when her son was killed in WW1 but do I believe say his or anyone else's ghost haunts a French battlefield, no I don't. I don't know how imprinting fits into the plan of salvation and why some people's imprinting is allowed to happen over other's, no offense but it some too loosey goosey for me! hahhaha!

 

Not sure you understand what I said.  That form of ghost isn't real in the sense that there is a disembodied spirit involved, its more like something very intense happened and for some reason that area took like a photographic image -- the spirit isn't there, nobody is there its just a hologram.  You hear of countless stories of the image of some deceased person at a specific time in their life usually associated with a major tragedy or violent happening.  They don't talk with anyone, they don't interact with anyone, they do the same thing everytime.  My opinion is that those apparitions happen -- I have had too many people report them to me -- but those aren't spirits -- why would a spirit do constant repetitive activity.  Spirits are like you and me, without a body, they go wherever they are allowed to go they communicate, they are busy doing things, etc. -- at least that is the Mormon view.

[Duncan]

Not sure you understand what I said.  That form of ghost isn't real in the sense that there is a disembodied spirit involved, its more like something very intense happened and for some reason that area took like a photographic image -- the spirit isn't there, nobody is there its just a hologram.  You hear of countless stories of the image of some deceased person at a specific time in their life usually associated with a major tragedy or violent happening.  They don't talk with anyone, they don't interact with anyone, they do the same thing everytime.  My opinion is that those apparitions happen -- I have had too many people report them to me -- but those aren't spirits -- why would a spirit do constant repetitive activity.  Spirits are like you and me, without a body, they go wherever they are allowed to go they communicate, they are busy doing things, etc. -- at least that is the Mormon view.

 

 

the area took a photographic image? how or what would do that? how does an area take an image of a person! maybe we run in different circles but I have never run across anyone who believes in an area taking pictures of something

[Stone holm]

the area took a photographic image? how or what would do that? how does an area take an image of a person! maybe we run in different circles but I have never run across anyone who believes in an area taking pictures of something

Will see if I can find a link to one of the documentaries on the subject.

[ERMD]

Interesting since the approved wording of a confirmation is "receive ye the Holy Ghost"

Actually, it is "receive the Holy Ghost." 

 

"Ye" is plural.  If one were to use a pronoun, it would be "thou."

 

[Stone holm]

Actually, it is "receive the Holy Ghost." 

 

"Ye" is plural.  If one were to use a pronoun, it would be "thou."

 

 

Stand corrected -- I think -- the point was the use of the term "Ghost".

[Stone holm]

the area took a photographic image? how or what would do that? how does an area take an image of a person! maybe we run in different circles but I have never run across anyone who believes in an area taking pictures of something

 

Here is one link, there are many others and there are documentary videos which make the same distinction:

http://ghosts.wikia.com/wiki/Imprint_Ghost