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New Order Mormons?


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Sincere condolences on your loss, John. Easy for me to point this out, but it is said that what doesn't kill one makes one stronger. Best wishes. :)

You say it better, ditto!
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Very simply they are Mormons who like the british band "new Order", Blue Monday was their big hit. They have meetings where they play the song and serve herbal tea and light refreshments

 

More often you'll hear us playing Bizarre Love Triangle, Shellshock, or Temptation while sipping on Tazo Passion. :-)

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More often you'll hear us playing Bizarre Love Triangle, Shellshock, or Temptation while sipping on Tazo Passion. :-)

 

 

All the while hearing Taco Mormons playing "Putting on the Ritz" with Simon and Garfunkel Mormons down by the schoolyard!

Edited by Duncan
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All the while hearing Taco Mormons playing "Putting on the Ritz" with Simon and Garfunkel Mormons down by the schoolyard!

 

 

Now those are the Mormons with which I wan to be identified!!!

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So are you saying that new order Mormons are the same or similar to big tent Mormons?

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It kinda depends.  SoCal isn't entirely Conservative.  Especially in some of the Hollywood/LA areas.

 

 

There's some in the church who adhere to the approach, and others who don't.  It's not a universal action in the church, imho.

 

In any case, I think mfb is right in the sense that there are not many people who go to church despite not believing in it.  Most of the time they fall into inactivity, at least in my experiences.  However, that doesn't mean cases don't exist (for example, yours).  And it's entirely your choice what you want to do.  If you want to stay for family reasons, that's your choice.  If you don't want to stay, that's your choice too.  Just be willing to live and be responsible for your own choice, that's the big thing I think.

 

Ultimately you are the only person who can decide what you will do.  As I am the only one who can decide what I will do.  That leave us stuck in certain cases of communication, naturally.  But it also gives us a bit of freedom.

We have a lot of EV's hereabouts who view doing business with a Mormon as contributing 10% of their business to the LDS church, and so they won't do it.  I have lost at least 2 clients that I know of to that way of thinking, and don't know how many others I am not directly aware of.

Edited by mfbukowski
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I'm scared, this business of not knowing if I'm a believer or not is going to come to a head in ashort time, I'm in a predicament. My in laws celebrate their birthdays by going to the temple, fil's is right around the corner. My TR has expired as of last March. I don't want to hurt family, and who knows if I'd even get a recommend. Some say on this thread that I should be authentic. Just read on another forum where someone shared things that made them ex mormon with someone that was still a believer just not active. Turns out she is now a non believer. And that person that told her, imo, seems to be the bad guy. I don't want to be that bad guy, or lead someone to warts in our history. What do I do, be honest about why, which may lead some to check or keep mouth shut and lie? Which is the correct path? Now do some of you see, why New Order Mormonism exists? Also, I don't want in laws to think we aren't living our religion, be it WoW, paying tithing, inactive, whatever...

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I'm scared, this business of not knowing if I'm a believer or not is going to come to a head in ashort time, I'm in a predicament. My in laws celebrate their birthdays by going to the temple, fil's is right around the corner. My TR has expired as of last March. I don't want to hurt family, and who knows if I'd even get a recommend. Some say on this thread that I should be authentic. Just read on another forum where someone shared things that made them ex mormon with someone that was still a believer just not active. Turns out she is now a non believer. And that person that told her, imo, seems to be the bad guy. I don't want to be that bad guy, or lead someone to warts in our history. What do I do, be honest about why, which may lead some to check or keep mouth shut and lie? Which is the correct path? Now do some of you see, why New Order Mormonism exists? Also, I don't want in laws to think we aren't living our religion, be it WoW, paying tithing, inactive, whatever...

 

Tough situation. In the long run, authenticity is crucial to living a happy life. But in the short term, sometimes you have to make compromises to maintain family peace. Of course, being authentic doesn't require you to overwhelm anyone with information about your struggles. In short, do what you think is right., and don't let anyone judge you, whatever decision you make.

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Tough situation. In the long run, authenticity is crucial to living a happy life. But in the short term, sometimes you have to make compromises to maintain family peace. Of course, being authentic doesn't require you to overwhelm anyone with information about your struggles. In short, do what you think is right., and don't let anyone judge you, whatever decision you make.

Thanks JK, I'm surprised you understood my post, kind of confusing, my dilemma is real and shows the life of a NOM. So many hide from every single person they know. They are only able to open up to people on boards like NOM, here and elsewhere. The church is now seeing the hurt caused by whitewashed history. Just now I listened to the talk show right before Music and the Spoken Word, it's been awhile since I've listened, and am now listening to it, love it still, anyway the show had on the producers (?) of the the JSP project videos that aire on Sundays. They were introducing a new video about Haun's Mill. They are showing in it the story that really happened connected to Crooked River and the war between the Mormons and the Missourians, even saying the Mormons ran them out and therefore the retaliation on Haun's Mill. Then we have Pres. Uchtdorf's talk about having history that is not perfect and admitting things were done that were wrong. Just wish history was more open before, and now is, when forced by the internet. Yes, history was told honestly in some places, but you'd have to hunt it down in libraries or places hard to reach, where the fast click of the button, or wrong click leads some down the road to apostasy. The church will be in rescue mode for quite some time, and I'm thankful it is coming forth. It'll show that members like me don't want a reason to leave, but more like me, want integrity and a reason to stay and to speak openly. That's how wounds heal.

Sorry for the rant JK!

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Just wish history was more open before, and now is, when forced by the internet. Yes, history was told honestly in some places, but you'd have to hunt it down in libraries or places hard to reach, where the fast click of the button, or wrong click leads some down the road to apostasy. The church will be in rescue mode for quite some time, and I'm thankful it is coming forth. It'll show that members like me don't want a reason to leave, but more like me, want integrity and a reason to stay and to speak openly. That's how wounds heal.

Sorry for the rant JK!

 

No worries, rant away. The church does seem to be de-Disneyfying its account of history, which is a good thing. One of the difficult things that you alluded to earlier is that, in trying to explain yourself to friends and family, you want to go into detail about the issues when they are not interested. Part of processing a faith crisis, IMO, is realizing that you don't owe anyone an explanation, and even if you did, some people aren't interested in your issues. For me, the best policy has been a "need to know" standard: I talk about my faith issues only when asked, and even then, only when I'm reasonably sure that sharing that information is going to have a positive result. Otherwise, I just don't talk about it. That policy has worked extremely well for me. 

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Thanks JK, I'm surprised you understood my post, kind of confusing, my dilemma is real and shows the life of a NOM. So many hide from every single person they know. They are only able to open up to people on boards like NOM, here and elsewhere. The church is now seeing the hurt caused by whitewashed history. Just now I listened to the talk show right before Music and the Spoken Word, it's been awhile since I've listened, and am now listening to it, love it still, anyway the show had on the producers (?) of the the JSP project videos that aire on Sundays. They were introducing a new video about Haun's Mill. They are showing in it the story that really happened connected to Crooked River and the war between the Mormons and the Missourians, even saying the Mormons ran them out and therefore the retaliation on Haun's Mill. Then we have Pres. Uchtdorf's talk about having history that is not perfect and admitting things were done that were wrong. Just wish history was more open before, and now is, when forced by the internet. Yes, history was told honestly in some places, but you'd have to hunt it down in libraries or places hard to reach, where the fast click of the button, or wrong click leads some down the road to apostasy. The church will be in rescue mode for quite some time, and I'm thankful it is coming forth. It'll show that members like me don't want a reason to leave, but more like me, want integrity and a reason to stay and to speak openly. That's how wounds heal.

Sorry for the rant JK!

All religions go through this vale , our mistake was believing we were exempt.

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Wasn't there a talk, not the most recent conference, but one of the last two before it, where one of the speakers clearly extended a welcome to people with varying levels of belief to remain in the church?

 

 

light refreshments

 

 . . . . a sign that they are still, fundamentally, Mormons. :P

 

Every time that I sit down at a Relief Society dinner, I sigh and smile and say, "The Church is True!" ;)


 

 

 

 

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I'm scared, this business of not knowing if I'm a believer or not is going to come to a head in ashort time, I'm in a predicament. My in laws celebrate their birthdays by going to the temple, fil's is right around the corner. My TR has expired as of last March. I don't want to hurt family, and who knows if I'd even get a recommend. Some say on this thread that I should be authentic. Just read on another forum where someone shared things that made them ex mormon with someone that was still a believer just not active. Turns out she is now a non believer. And that person that told her, imo, seems to be the bad guy. I don't want to be that bad guy, or lead someone to warts in our history. What do I do, be honest about why, which may lead some to check or keep mouth shut and lie? Which is the correct path? Now do some of you see, why New Order Mormonism exists? Also, I don't want in laws to think we aren't living our religion, be it WoW, paying tithing, inactive, whatever...

 

 

Let me tell you something.  There was a time when I was a member of the church, but I couldn't partake of or pass the sacrament.  Don't ask me why, but it was so.  I thought it was going to be horrible.  But it worked out very very well.

 

Occasionally, someone would come up, and ask me if I could pass.  I told them I couldn't.  I don't think they judged me further.  The people who know of the incident didn't judge me further.  They didn't come up and ask me why.  They simply let it be, trusting that I was working fine on my own journey back to where I needed to be.  They didn't know what my issue was, or why I was having it.  They simply let it be as it was.  And eventually, I made my way back to where I needed to be, and I was able to participate once more.

 

I won't make a choice for you.  But as you said, I think it's a good idea to avoid showing warts to people.  If you don't get the recommend, then you don't get the recommend.  But you don't necessarily need to tell them why.  Even more than that, still attend the temple with them.  While I can't predict their reaction, I know many in my ward would not judge you if you were here.  We'd simply wish you well, hoping you'd get through your trials, and be at peace with that.

 

I may have mentioned it before, but my Dad is not a member.  Whenever my family goes to the temple, he comes with us.  He sometimes stays outside, and sometimes goes into the first room where you don't need a TR.  I think it's been a blessing to him, and I'm happy that he came regardless of the fact that he isn't a member and doesn't have a TR.  While I can't guarantee your situation will be the same, I have found that the temple is a good place for TR holders and non-TR holders alike.  So visit anyways.  When you feel the spirit of God, things begin to go right again.  You gain strength when you go there.  So go there, regardless, I would suggest.  It may be hard; it's always hard to risk having people judge you.  But it's worth the blessings you will get for obeying the Lord.  So go.  And do.  =)

 

I'm on a mission tomorrow, so I probably won't be able to respond, but I wish you the best of luck,

-TAO

Edited by TAO
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Let me tell you something. There was a time when I was a member of the church, but I couldn't partake of or pass the sacrament. Don't ask me why, but it was so. I thought it was going to be horrible. But it worked out very very well.

Occasionally, someone would come up, and ask me if I could pass. I told them I couldn't. I don't think they judged me further. The people who know of the incident didn't judge me further. They didn't come up and ask me why. They simply let it be, trusting that I was working fine on my own journey back to where I needed to be. They didn't know what my issue was, or why I was having it. They simply let it be as it was. And eventually, I made my way back to where I needed to be, and I was able to participate once more.

I won't make a choice for you. But as you said, I think it's a good idea to avoid showing warts to people. If you don't get the recommend, then you don't get the recommend. But you don't necessarily need to tell them why. Even more than that, still attend the temple with them. While I can't predict their reaction, I know many in my ward would not judge you if you were here. We'd simply wish you well, hoping you'd get through your trials, and be at peace with that.

I may have mentioned it before, but my Dad is not a member. Whenever my family goes to the temple, he comes with us. He sometimes stays outside, and sometimes goes into the first room where you don't need a TR. I think it's been a blessing to him, and I'm happy that he came regardless of the fact that he isn't a member and doesn't have a TR. While I can't guarantee your situation will be the same, I have found that the temple is a good place for TR holders and non-TR holders alike. So visit anyways. When you feel the spirit of God, things begin to go right again. You gain strength when you go there. So go there, regardless, I would suggest. It may be hard; it's always hard to risk having people judge you. But it's worth the blessings you will get for obeying the Lord. So go. And do. =)

I'm on a mission tomorrow, so I probably won't be able to respond, but I wish you the best of luck,

-TAO

Hope this catches you in time, need I even say you are already a wonderful missionary? This was just what I needed to hear. I'll pray to see what my husband and I should do. I haven't been very good at that, but think I'd better buck up and think about some choices in my life that need working on. Get some sleep you probably have a long day ahead, but a great one hopefully, meeting the mission president and his wife and your senior companion. Thanks for the response, loved it!
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My advice would be to share any TR problems only with your Bishop and your closest trusted friends.

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Wasn't there a talk, not the most recent conference, but one of the last two before it, where one of the speakers clearly extended a welcome to people with varying levels of belief to remain in the church?

Elder Holland, I think last conference- April?

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Elder Holland, I think last conference- April?

 

Maybe.  I just reviewed that one plus several more from April 2012, Nov 2012, April 2013, and that was the closest although what I thought I had heard I didn't exactly find it there.  Maybe it was just the way it hit me at the time I listened to it.  Great talk, anyways.

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