Knowledge In The Spirit World

[Kevin Christensen]

Back in 1999, I met Elane Durham at the IANDS conference in Salt Lake City. During her pre-LDS NDE account, she was asked if she wanted to see who she was before she was born. Her book is called I Stand All Amazed, very much worth reading. I think that restoration of memory can happen, but not necessarily. Many NDErs report a sense of "homecoming" when they go over, which does not mean a restoration of memory, but does indicate a return to a place they belonged.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Visiting Lawrence, KS

[Stone holm]

Back in 1999, I met Elane Durham at the IANDS conference in Salt Lake City. During her pre-LDS NDE account, she was asked if she wanted to see who she was before she was born. Her book is called I Stand All Amazed, very much worth reading. I think that restoration of memory can happen, but not necessarily. Many NDErs report a sense of "homecoming" when they go over, which does not mean a restoration of memory, but does indicate a return to a place they belonged.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Visiting Lawrence, KS

Yeah, I don't think anyone was challenging the idea of possibly meeting up with the family circle, the question is if you die a Methodist are you going to wake up in the Spirit World with all of the knowledge you had about the plan of salvation in all its details that you had in the pre-existence? If so, then missionary work in the spirit world would be sort of pointless don't you think?

[Calm]

And that would not be true of the Spirits in Prison who had never heard of Mormonism exactly how?

I am not sure how you are understanding my post that this would be a problem.

[JAHS]

President George Q. Cannon said:

"You have heard of men who have been drowning or have fallen from a great height describe that in about a second or two every event of their lives passed before them like a panorama with the rapidity of lightning. This shows what power there is latent in the human mind, which, when quickened by the power of God, will make men and women recall not only that which pertains to this life, but our memories will stretch back to the life we had before we came here, with the associations we had with our Father and God and with those bright spirits that stand around His throne and with the righteous and holy ones." (Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, p. 60)

So there's one prophet's opinion.

Edited August 12, 2013 by JAHS

[Stone holm]

President George Q. Cannon said:

"You have heard of men who have been drowning or have fallen from a great height describe that in about a second or two every event of their lives passed before them like a panorama with the rapidity of lightning. This shows what power there is latent in the human mind, which, when quickened by the power of God, will make men and women recall not only that which pertains to this life, but our memories will stretch back to the life we had before we came here, with the associations we had with our Father and God and with those bright spirits that stand around His throne and with the righteous and holy ones." (Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, p. 60)

So there's one prophet's opinion.

Thank you for digging that out. Not sure how he made the jump from having ones mortal life flash before your eyes, to remembering the pre-existence -- but least he had an opinion.

[CV75]

President George Q. Cannon said:

"You have heard of men who have been drowning or have fallen from a great height describe that in about a second or two every event of their lives passed before them like a panorama with the rapidity of lightning. This shows what power there is latent in the human mind, which, when quickened by the power of God, will make men and women recall not only that which pertains to this life, but our memories will stretch back to the life we had before we came here, with the associations we had with our Father and God and with those bright spirits that stand around His throne and with the righteous and holy ones." (Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, p. 60)

So there's one prophet's opinion.

I think the condition, "when quickened by the power of God" is essential for the memory being able to "stretch back to the life we had before we came here." This is our "latent power" which may or may not be realized at death. I'm sure George Q. Cannon knew what he could expect.

Edited August 13, 2013 by CV75

[Stone holm]

I think the condition, "when quickened by the power of God" is essential for the memory being able to "stretch back to the life we had before we came here." This is our "latent power" which may or may not be realized at death. I'm sure George Q. Cannon knew what he could expect.

Good point. For many spirits there would no longer be a need for the veil.

[CV75]

Good point. For many spirits there would no longer be a need for the veil.

Just doing my part to end the world two days in a row!

[Stone holm]

Just doing my part to end the world two days in a row!

Yeah, but now Hades is freezing over look what you have done.

[Questing Beast]

It seems logical to me that immortality is our natural state. To what degree mortality plays upon the destiny of a soul is open to discussion since most of us have opinions on the topic.

If I take a purely Mormon pov, the departed must believe that they have actually experienced a thing called mortality: we live by faith here, we live by faith there too. So when "missionaries" come calling in spirit prison and point out that everyone has experienced a strange, dreamlike period of time that feels like an insertion into the immortal mind/world, the "dead" must take it on faith that what the missionaries are talking about is real, not just a "dream" or similar phenomenon, no matter how many shared in it. What mortality means is taught and either believed in or disregarded, just like trying to convince non Mormons here....

[halconero]

Yeah, I don't think anyone was challenging the idea of possibly meeting up with the family circle, the question is if you die a Methodist are you going to wake up in the Spirit World with all of the knowledge you had about the plan of salvation in all its details that you had in the pre-existence? If so, then missionary work in the spirit world would be sort of pointless don't you think?

If we believe that there was an organized church in the pre-existence then it is also evident that there were many who left it even there, in the presence of God the Father.

I think that a lifting of the veil wouldn't necessarily make missionary work any easier or harder, but add another dynamic. For those whose hearts are honest, true and who desire righteousness it might be more like teaching a less-active member who believes, does good, and wants to return, but who may be in need of a refresher. For those who are hardened, blinded and who have little desire to follow the plan it may be more like teaching that less-active member who yells at the home teachers.

Edited August 15, 2013 by halconero

[Stone holm]

If we believe that there was an organized church in the pre-existence then it is also evident that there were many who left it even there, in the presence of God the Father.

I think that a lifting of the veil wouldn't necessarily make missionary work any easier or harder, but add another dynamic. For those whose hearts are honest, true and who desire righteousness it might be more like teaching a less-active member who believes, does good, and wants to return, but who may be in need of a refresher. For those who are hardened, blinded and who have little desire to follow the plan it may be more like teaching that less-active member who yells at the home teachers.

As I understand our doctrine if there was a Church in the pre-existence and we left, then we got cast out and did not receive bodies. I assume the demons will be wandering around in spirit prison opposing the missionaries there as well and organising various churches as well.

[halconero]

As I understand our doctrine if there was a Church in the pre-existence and we left, then we got cast out and did not receive bodies. I assume the demons will be wandering around in spirit prison opposing the missionaries there as well and organising various churches as well.

Maybe, maybe not. The doctrine doesn't say. If there were I would imagine that they could be kicked out of there as they were following the war in heaven.

[rpn]

Spirits in spirit prison, or even paradise have not completed their journey on earth (they have judgment and resurrection to go before then). So I don't see how their pre-earth veils can be removed prior to judgment and resurrection. But that doesn't mean that the veil doesn't get thinner and thinner for all of us as we work toward being everything that our Heavenly Father plans on our being. (Although the veil getting thinner in this context is being closer to constant companionship of the Holy Ghost and therefore to perfect knowledge of all things, not return of memories of pre-existent life).

[freedad]

I don't know why but my feeling is that the pre-earth knowledge will be revealed to us at the Resurrection.  Then, having a knowledge of both the first and second estates we are better prepared for the Final Judgment.  Others have said that since missionary work and repentance are important principles in the Spirit World, pre-earth knowledge cannot be given to us.  I believe that.  The Spirit World like the mortal world is still a part of our testing.  So giving us that knowledge too early would be unfair for our testing.

[Calm]

I don't know why but my feeling is that the pre-earth knowledge will be revealed to us at the Resurrection.  Then, having a knowledge of both the first and second estates we are better prepared for the Final Judgment.  Others have said that since missionary work and repentance are important principles in the Spirit World, pre-earth knowledge cannot be given to us.  I believe that.  The Spirit World like the mortal world is still a part of our testing.  So giving us that knowledge too early would be unfair for our testing.

If "Final Judgment" is a process and not just an event, then I can see this as likely, but I think it will take time to absorb everything and put it in proper context with everything else so I don't see it just being given to us as we step in front of the judgment seat as a final touch to our purification/preparation process.

 

I don't see how repentance requires the lack of pre-earth knowledge though.  Part of repentance is a recognition of where we have erred.  This seems to me more likely to occur if we have full knowledge of the Plan of Salvation and our acceptance of it, etc.  Perhaps you could explain?