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What Not To Tell An Investigator Or Recent Convert


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I must be careful because I do not wish this to sound bitter or snide. Today, Missionaries talk about the atonement as if all of its benefits can be felt in this life, when in truth they can not. Many of the benefits of the atonement will only be evident in the next life. I found this out after I had been a member for two years, and it was heartbreaking to hear and it took me considerable time to adjust to and accept. It would have been better to have known this initially.

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I must be careful because I do not wish this to sound bitter or snide. Today, Missionaries talk about the atonement as if all of its benefits can be felt in this life, when in truth they can not. Many of the benefits of the atonement will only be evident in the next life. I found this out after I had been a member for two years, and it was heartbreaking to hear and it took me considerable time to adjust to and accept. It would have been better to have known this initially.

It is a process not a goal.

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I must be careful because I do not wish this to sound bitter or snide. Today, Missionaries talk about the atonement as if all of its benefits can be felt in this life, when in truth they can not. Many of the benefits of the atonement will only be evident in the next life. I found this out after I had been a member for two years, and it was heartbreaking to hear and it took me considerable time to adjust to and accept. It would have been better to have known this initially.

A little different than the EV view, that of being forgiven on the spot. Of course I thought our baptism was that. And I'm surprised you ran into such mean EV's. Isn't there a possibility of there being nicer people in that religion somewhere? Or is their philosophy that scary, like are they harder on gays, etc.? Or have that fire and damnation deal going, I wouldn't know, since I've been LDS my whole life. I always remember what you said about them, and it scares the he#@ out of me to think I might possibly leave this church and join one of theirs. Maybe the most I could do is join a non denomination Christian church. But there again, I'd probably need more structure since that's what I'm use to.

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A little different than the EV view, that of being forgiven on the spot. Of course I thought our baptism was that.

The Atonement is not only about forgiveness/purification, it is also about refinement and becoming one with God. Our baptism is for the remission of sins, but it is only one of the first steps we take. Edited by calmoriah
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A little different than the EV view, that of being forgiven on the spot. Of course I thought our baptism was that. And I'm surprised you ran into such mean EV's. Isn't there a possibility of there being nicer people in that religion somewhere? Or is their philosophy that scary, like are they harder on gays, etc.? Or have that fire and damnation deal going, I wouldn't know, since I've been LDS my whole life. I always remember what you said about them, and it scares the he#@ out of me to think I might possibly leave this church and join one of theirs. Maybe the most I could do is join a non denomination Christian church. But there again, I'd probably need more structure since that's what I'm use to.

In time, I hope that Heavenly Father will lead me to write the truth about my experiences in a fair and calm manner. I am not there yet. There are deep doctrinal issues that separate us. Our church is what is called "works oriented", so we get into the discussion regarding "Faith is a gift of God", and "Faith without works is dead". In Ev thought there is considerable tension surrounding these and other issues.

Ev folk really choke on Joseph Smith despite the existence of John ( the author of Revelations) and many other OT prophets. Many of them believe that with Jesus Christ, God's work on earth was sealed. To me, it is just illogical that God would talk to us rather steadily down through over 6000 years, and suddenly stop and walk away as if disgusted.

That is why I believe in all the prophets, in Jesus the Christ, in Muhammad PBUH, the work of Martin Luther, Wycliffe, Guttenburg, those brave souls who translated the Bible into the KJV, and finally Joseph Smith. For me, it was an easy step.

Gosh, writing like this makes me all goose bumpy! :)

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"You can't go to the celestial kingdom if you _____ (fill in the blank)"

No, I do not get what you mean. You seem to make a practice of only talking to me if you have something mean to say. Why is that? I won't see the inside of a Temple in this life! That make you feel smug?

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Our church is what is called "works oriented"

Our Church is labeled as "works oriented" by others outside our faith. We don't describe ourselves as such within it (do a search on lds.org if you are wondering...this is the only item that comes up when I google it: http://broadcast.lds.org/ldsradio/pdf/mormon-identity/mormon-identity-ep-28.pdf ) and thus that label may be wrongly applied due to a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of our actual doctrine. Edited by calmoriah
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No, I do not get what you mean. You seem to make a practice of only talking to me if you have something mean to say. Why is that? I won't see the inside of a Temple in this life! That make you feel smug?

He is going back to the original opening post about things you should never say to an investigator or new convert. This is something bad to say, he is stating, not agreeing with it.
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I must be careful because I do not wish this to sound bitter or snide. Today, Missionaries talk about the atonement as if all of its benefits can be felt in this life, when in truth they can not. Many of the benefits of the atonement will only be evident in the next life. I found this out after I had been a member for two years, and it was heartbreaking to hear and it took me considerable time to adjust to and accept. It would have been better to have known this initially.

Perhaps you should start a different thread. I am curious to know why you would say that. In a sense, it's true: we are separated from God because He is an immortal who dwells in glory and, as fallible mortals, we cannot yet abide that glory. We will only feel the full effects of the Atonement when we return to His presence. Still, I think you have repeatedly been assured that, but for that, it certainly is possible to feel the full effects of the Atonement in this life by numerous posters on this Board (including, I hope, me), yet you continue to proclaim a contrary view. There are times when I feel very far removed from the sweet peace the Atonement brings. In those times, I know I need to do one of two things: (1) realize that there's an Adversary who would have me believe that even when I'm doing all that is required to feel the Savior's peace, it's still not good enough (and refuse to pay that Adversary any mind); or (2) repent. In your case, I suspect the first of those two things is your antidote.
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My list of what not to tell an investigator would simply say not to sugar coat the Gospel (such as Jesus only drank grape juice) and not tell them it's okay if you can't live the Law of Chastity, Word of Wisdom, pay Tithing, or come to Church regularly.

Edited by BCSpace
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I believe that while investigating, people should read the BoA and D&C and not just the BoM. Kolob should be discussed prior to baptism. Head, hat and stones translation method. The First Visions and not just the 1838 Edition. Church history should be put out there so that there are no surprises. It is absolutely naive to believe that history shouldn't affect one's testimony.

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It is absolutely naive to believe that history shouldn't affect one's testimony.

We will not be able to answer all questions, so it is necessary to learn how to handle such issues.

When I was baptized I asked the missionaries about polygamy. "Don't worry about it."

Great advice.

Also, when I graduated from BYU, the speaker talked about the "shelf of disbelief". When you have a question, put it on the shelf. Take it down and look at it from time to time and eventually you may find an answer, or, at least, have a better understanding of the issue.

Edited by cdowis
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"Only ugly sisters serve missions."

Oh come now. My girlfriend left a few months ago to serve in the Mississippi Jackson mission and she's a total hottie!

Now she's hottie and sweatie.

:rofl: In response to that, I posted on GaveUpCoffeeForThis's blog, "I have a testimony that #6 isn't true." ;):D

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We will not be able to answer all questions, so it is necessary to learn how to handle such issues.

When I was baptized I asked the missionaries about polygamy. "Don't worry about it."

Great advice.

Also, when I graduated from BYU, the speaker talked about the "shelf of disbelief". When you have a question, put it on the shelf. Take it down and look at it from time to time and eventually you may find an answer, or, at least, have a better understanding of the issue.

I've heard of this shelf thing before but I don't bother with it. That's what research is for. Just ask Don Bradley.

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It is absolutely naive to believe that history shouldn't affect one's testimony.

I think that depends a great deal on the individual. For example, many people could care less about the history of medicine or even if there is a chance if there is a placebo effect going on as long as they feel better, as long as they believe it is working for them.
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I've heard of this shelf thing before but I don't bother with it. That's what research is for. Just ask Don Bradley.

So make it a desk instead of a shelf....the point is not to have to carry it around all the time so it becomes a burden with an overly inflate value/weight rather than just something that sparks one's curiosity or pushes one to learn more. Edited by calmoriah
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I think that depends a great deal on the individual. For example, many people could care less about the history of medicine or even if there is a chance if there is a placebo effect going on as long as they feel better, as long as they believe it is working for them.

I understand your comparison but I don't believe I agree with it. But an interesting perspective nonetheless.

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I've heard of this shelf thing before but I don't bother with it. That's what research is for. Just ask Don Bradley.

The shelf is specifically a tool for research, not simply to ignore the issue. You just give it time and patience because some things take years to resolve.

For example, I found it useful when the Salamander letter came out. A little voice told me, "If you were REALLY honest, this would prove that the church is false and you should leave it."

I remember the shelf advice, put it up there and I'm glad I did. The truth finally came out. Some things will not be resolved until the next life, and I can accept that.

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I was told a bunch of be, I think mainly out of ignorance.

That Mormons do not cry at funerals. Which is still because some people actually do believe they should not cry at funerals. I can not imagine the lingering pain that silly idea could cause.

That polygamy was because men died in war and polygamy was to help widows out.

I would not want another wife one is hard enough. Seen right through that bs.

Was told to get baptized before I believed, that it was ok I would believe eventually.

I am sire more vs will come to my remembrance in a bit.

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