Russia Again-- Law On "Offending Religious Feelings"

[cdowis]

Russian lawmakers on Tuesday took a step toward imposing jail terms for offending religious feelings, approving legislation proposed after punk band ****** Riot performed a raucous protest song in Moscow's main Orthodox Christian cathedral.

Critics say the bill will give government-approved religious groups protection others lack and blur the line between church and state under President Vladimir Putin, who has advocated a strong societal role for the Russian Orthodox Church.

Lawmakers in the State Duma approved the bill by a vote of 304-4 after the second of three required readings in the 450-seat lower parliament house.

Approval in the second reading, which is when most changes are made to legislation, means Putin is likely to sign it after it gets through the Duma and a vote in the upper house.

The bill would introduce jail terms of up to one year and fines of up to 300,000 roubles ($9,600) for "public actions expressing clear disrespect for society and committed with intent to offend the religious feelings of the faithful."

If committed in a house of worship the maximum punishment would be three years in prison and a fine of 500,000 roubles.

Kremlin critics fear that despite changes in the second reading that made the wording more specific, it will allow for selective application and use of the law as part of a growing Kremlin arsenal of tools to suppress dissent.

"This is another repressive law," veteran human rights activist Lyudmila Alexeyeva told the Interfax news agency.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/us-russia-religion-idUSBRE94K17020130521

[blackstrap]

And the pendulum continues its swing. ( Milleresque reference to the movie " the pit and the pendulum" with Vincent Price. )

[Nathair/|\]

And the pendulum continues its swing. ( Milleresque reference to the movie " the pit and the pendulum" with Vincent Price. )

Not the original Poe story?

[Avatar4321]

Sounds like we should appeal to a higher lawmaker on behalf of the Saints in Russia.

[Daniel2]

Just so I'm clear... do most Latter-day Saints that are posting here agree that this law is a bad idea....? Or is anyone suggesting that this is a good thing?

[Avatar4321]

Just so I'm clear... do most Latter-day Saints that are posting here agree that this law is a bad idea....? Or is anyone suggesting that this is a good thing?

I don't speak for most Latter-day Saints. Just me. I am not optimistic about this law.

[The Nehor]

I admit part of me would appreciate such a law if it were written in a nuanced way and all enforcers and adjudicators deciding on when it could be used would be fair, reasonable, and conscientious to protect free speech in general while removing obviously inflammatory morons. This would not happen in any nation I know of. It most certainly will not be used fairly in Putin's Russia.

This is a move to shield the Russian Orthodox Church that the borderline-fascists running Russia are allied with.

[cdowis]

The LDS church is not "government approved", so missionary work can be construed as an attack on the Orthodox church.

Bye bye missionaries.

[thesometimesaint]

Applied with care and wisdom such a law COULD help prevent outright attacks on specific religions. However given Russia's long history of religious intolerance I'm not hopeful.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

It wouldn't make much sense for this to be used against the LDS. I haven't heard about missionaries going barging into Orthodox churches offending people since the Bulgarian row 5 years ago (which turned out to be false).

Especially considering that the visa laws were modified permitting the missionaries to stay for up to three years, without having to exit the country every three months on a visa trip.

I could see this going down on the J Dubs and hard though. They love to offend people.

[Avatar4321]

It wouldn't make much sense for this to be used against the LDS. I haven't heard about missionaries going barging into Orthodox churches offending people since the Bulgarian row 5 years ago (which turned out to be false).

Especially considering that the visa laws were modified permitting the missionaries to stay for up to three years, without having to exit the country every three months on a visa trip.

I could see this going down on the J Dubs and hard though. They love to offend people.

Empowering the government to treat religions differently or determine what is offensive is dangerous to any faith. What if I am offended that you go door to door teaching the Gospel? Then according to the Law, the government now has power to persecute people.

[Calm]

I haven't heard about missionaries going barging into Orthodox churches offending people since the Bulgarian row 5 years ago (which turned out to be false).

Info please.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Empowering the government to treat religions differently or determine what is offensive is dangerous to any faith. What if I am offended that you go door to door teaching the Gospel? Then according to the Law, the government now has power to persecute people.

This law refers to two cases: Interrupting religious services and offending the parishioners (which would be 3 years in jail and 10,000 dollar fine), and desecrating a holy site (5 years in jail and 17000 dollar fine).

Hence my remarks on not having heard of any LDS missionaries barging into Orthodox cathedrals since the Bulgarian row five years ago (which turned out to be false). Or LDS missionaries doing what ****** Riot was doing inside the biggest Orthodox church in Russia.

I am pretty sure if homosexual activists barged into an LDS Sacrament meeting shouting "Its okay to be gay" or simulated sex inside of a chapel (not to say a temple) there would be a lot of angry members and they would be asking for their removal if not their arrest for disturbing the peace.

Perspective people. The Russians are starting to treat the LDS and the Catholics better than they were treated a short time ago. Hence my post about the liberalisation of the visa laws for LDS missionaries. The Jehovah's Witnesses have been offending people left and right. For that reason I said the law would come down MUCH harder on the Jehovah's Witnesses. (NOTE TO MOD: CHANGES DONE. DIDN'T KNOW THE OTHER TERM WAS OFFENSIVE)

Use the appropriate name for Jehovah's Witnesses. Be respectful to all religions here.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Info please.

Here you go: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700233495/MormonTimescom-Bulgarian-missionary-incident-called-a-misunderstanding.html?pg=all

[cdowis]

It wouldn't make much sense for this to be used against the LDS. I haven't heard about missionaries going barging into Orthodox churches offending people since the Bulgarian row 5 years ago (which turned out to be false).

Are you familiar with the doctrine of the apostasy? that it is taught by missionaries as part of the restoration. Read what Christ said in the First Vision.

The law is not solely targeting "barging into churches" ==>>

The bill would introduce jail terms of up to one year and fines of up to 300,000 roubles ($9,600) for "public actions expressing clear disrespect for society and committed with intent to offend the religious feelings of the faithful."

If committed in a house of worship the maximum punishment would be three years in prison and a fine of 500,000 roubles.

Note that there are two specific cases, "in public" which has one fine and "in a house of worship" with a higher fine. (You forgot to read about the $9,600 fine.)

Anyway, the former could be very broadly interpreted, including knocking on doors, teaching in an open forum, and even the LDS meetinghouse could be defined as a public place.

[Calm]

Here you go: http://www.deseretne...ing.html?pg=all

Thank you

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Are you familiar with the doctrine of the apostasy? that it is taught by missionaries as part of the restoration. Read what Christ said in the First Vision.

The law is not solely targeting "barging into churches" ==>>

Note that there are two specific cases, "in public" which has one fine and "in a house of worship" with a higher fine. (You forgot to read about the $9,600 fine.)

Anyway, the former could be very broadly interpreted, including knocking on doors, teaching in an open forum, and even the LDS meetinghouse could be defined as a public place.

I know very well the doctrine of the Apostasy. I served as a missionary in Mexico, and I never meant to offend the Catholic population when I taught about the Apostasy. When you teach it right, it shouldn't offend anyone, as it is opinion. In the case of the Orthodox Church they believe they are the originals and that the Catholics left from them.

Some of the offences come from ignorance. I have an uncle who is a Greek Orthodox priest, and we had a few discussions one with another during my mission. And quite a few of the American LDS are quite ignorant on what the Tsyerkov Pravoslavie Rus vyera is all about, just as there are many Russian Orthodox that are ignorant on the Svyatikh Poslednikh Dnyei, accusing them of being a Sektanti Zapadnyy rather than what it is: Tsyerkov Istinna Iisusa Khrista.

Get rid of the ignorance on both sides, and you will start to see the work progress in Federalskaya Rossii like never before, as well as all the other Orthodox nations.

[cdowis]

I know very well the doctrine of the Apostasy. I served as a missionary in Mexico, and I never meant to offend the Catholic population when I taught about the Apostasy. When you teach it right, it shouldn't offend anyone, as it is opinion. In the case of the Orthodox Church they believe they are the originals and that the Catholics left from them.

You miss the point of the law.

This has nothing to do with "offending anyone". I anticipate that it will be used as an excuse to bring legal persecution to the church because they are "offensive" with the doctrine of the Apostasy.

It is all about power and politics. It will be used as a tool to protect the established church.

[Tacenda]

I hear all the time that the LDS are as anti as anyone when they preach that they have all truth and the other churches don't.

[Calm]

I hear all the time that the LDS are as anti as anyone when they preach that they have all truth and the other churches don't.

From whom (who? can never remember which to use) are you hearing this?

[Tacenda]

From whom (who? can never remember which to use) are you hearing this?

Shawn McRaney says it when callers call in and say he shouldn't pick on the LDS. He said JS started it when he said all the Christian sects were an abomination to God.

[volgadon]

The LDS church is not "government approved", so missionary work can be construed as an attack on the Orthodox church.

Bye bye missionaries.

We are gvt. approved, otherwise there would be no visas for missionaries.

[volgadon]

I know very well the doctrine of the Apostasy. I served as a missionary in Mexico, and I never meant to offend the Catholic population when I taught about the Apostasy. When you teach it right, it shouldn't offend anyone, as it is opinion. In the case of the Orthodox Church they believe they are the originals and that the Catholics left from them.

Some of the offences come from ignorance. I have an uncle who is a Greek Orthodox priest, and we had a few discussions one with another during my mission. And quite a few of the American LDS are quite ignorant on what the Russkaya Pravoslavnaya Tsyerkov is all about, just as there are many Russian Orthodox that are ignorant on the Svyatikh Poslednikh Dnyei, accusing them of being a zapadnyaya sekta rather than what it is: Istinnaya tsyerkov Iisusa Khrista.

Get rid of the ignorance on both sides, and you will start to see the work progress in the Rossiiskaya Fyederatsiya like never before, as well as all the other Orthodox nations.

I hope you don't mind the liberty I've taken to correct the grammar, because your post rocks and should be quoted for truth.

[blackstrap]

It is said that when someone is " speaking in tongues" there should also be someone who gives an interpretation. Anyone feel so moved? Anyone ?

[blackstrap]

I hear all the time that the LDS are as anti as anyone when they preach that they have all truth and the other churches don't.

All truth Tacenda? Really? Somebody needs to reread the 13 articles of faith . Someone also needs to read any Conference talk and then an anti site article and see if there is any difference in tone . Having been raised on a farm with 500 pigs and a couple hundred cows ,I recognize a distinct odor wafting.