Tsarnaev Mindst

[blackstrap]

I just listened to the comments from the mother and family of the Tsarnaev brothers. She is absolutely convinced that her sons were not involved in the bombings and that the whole thing is a setup. This gives me some insight into the mindset of those who do not wish to be confused with the facts as their minds are made up. As has been said of the Sons of Perdition , that they will look upon the noonday sun and claim all is black as night. My question is, will this type of mindset effect many of us into the eternities to one extent or another ? Will we look at Joseph Smith and see him as a prophet /servant of Christ and yet say " Ya ,but I don't agree with his doctrine and behavior so I will not be involved with him or his religion ." Will some look at Jesus and confess He is the Savior and yet say , " Ya, we know ,but we rather not follow Commandment X so we will not follow Him, " The truth may just set us free..... to do as we please anyway .

[volgadon]

Chechens have very good reasons to believe in setups. They have been victims of setups for years and years. They get dragged into very baroque machinations, so she is going by the reality she knows, that things are never as simple as they seem. I won't boast but I do know a bit about the Caucasian situation.

[thesometimesaint]

I just listened to the comments from the mother and family of the Tsarnaev brothers. She is absolutely convinced that her sons were not involved in the bombings and that the whole thing is a setup. This gives me some insight into the mindset of those who do not wish to be confused with the facts as their minds are made up. As has been said of the Sons of Perdition , that they will look upon the noonday sun and claim all is black as night. My question is, will this type of mindset effect many of us into the eternities to one extent or another ? Will we look at Joseph Smith and see him as a prophet /servant of Christ and yet say " Ya ,but I don't agree with his doctrine and behavior so I will not be involved with him or his religion ." Will some look at Jesus and confess He is the Savior and yet say , " Ya, we know ,but we rather not follow Commandment X so we will not follow Him, " The truth may just set us free..... to do as we please anyway .

Let's be very careful here before branding anyone a son of perdition. All we have the mother of an accused man. There has been no trial and no jury has pronounced him guilty. I don't know of any mother that would not be heartbroken by both the accusation and the possible death sentence of her son.

[blackstrap]

I understand that the Chechens have a history with Russian subtrafuge and I labeled no one a SoP. I speak only of the mindset. The D&C speaks of those who have been blinded to the truth by the philosophies of the world. I wonder if those philosophies or mindsets will continue in the afterlife to obscure the truth or will it be possible to see for oneself the actual events and recognize the lies/misinformation that led to the error.

[rockpond]

I get the point you are making, blackstrap, but from what I've heard/read of the mother's statements she is all over the map. I suspect that she's just so grief stricken that she is not in her right mind.

[thesometimesaint]

I understand that the Chechens have a history with Russian subtrafuge and I labeled no one a SoP. I speak only of the mindset. The D&C speaks of those who have been blinded to the truth by the philosophies of the world. I wonder if those philosophies or mindsets will continue in the afterlife to obscure the truth or will it be possible to see for oneself the actual events and recognize the lies/misinformation that led to the error.

Unless one repents I see no reason why they would not be the same as they were in this afterlife. But really I see God as a successful God. The vast majority of his children will not become a SoP.

[Calm]

I just listened to the comments from the mother and family of the Tsarnaev brothers. She is absolutely convinced that her sons were not involved in the bombings and that the whole thing is a setup. This gives me some insight into the mindset of those who do not wish to be confused with the facts.....

Or the mind of a loving mother who cannot conceived that those she helped create and nurture would harm others in such a way.

[Calm]

The D&C speaks of those who have been blinded to the truth by the philosophies of the world.

Mother love is not a philosophy of the world.

[Calm]

I understand that the Chechens have a history with Russian subtrafuge and I labeled no one a SoP. I speak only of the mindset. The D&C speaks of those who have been blinded to the truth by the philosophies of the world. I wonder if those philosophies or mindsets will continue in the afterlife to obscure the truth or will it be possible to see for oneself the actual events and recognize the lies/misinformation that led to the error.

The obscurity will at least be raised enough for all to recognize who Christ is and bow before him.

[Stargazer]

Or the mind of a loving mother who cannot conceived that those she helped create and nurture would harm others in such a way.

She is in Chechnya instead of the US because there's an arrest warrant for her. Her telephone interview with CNN ended with a shouted Allahuakbar! I don't think she cares if they hurt anyone.

[Saints Alive]

There is always the possibility they actually were framed. Im not a conspiracy theorist but all we have seen is pictures of the brothers with backpacks. Maybe we should be asking, what does the administration have to gain from this?

[ERayR]

There is always the possibility they actually were framed. Im not a conspiracy theorist but all we have seen is pictures of the brothers with backpacks. Maybe we should be asking, what does the administration have to gain from this?

I feel shutdown coming 10..9..8..

[thesometimesaint]

She is in Chechnya instead of the US because there's an arrest warrant for her. Her telephone interview with CNN ended with a shouted Allahuakbar! I don't think she cares if they hurt anyone.

IIRC She returned to Chechnya years ago.

Allah Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest".

[urroner]

Unless one repents I see no reason why they would not be the same as they were in this afterlife. But really I see God as a successful God. The vast majority of his children will not become a SoP.

As far as being the same in the next life as being in this life, I have a feeling that a lot of the mental illnesses we have in this life will not be with us after death, so those who are afflicted with mental illnesses in this life, which sometimes severely limits our moral agency in this life, won't be do so in the next.

Also, if somebody in this life truly believes that what he is doing is the right thing to do, whether it is the right thing or not, and has demonstrated that if he realizes that what he had been doing isn't the right thing to do and changes it to the right thing even if the change isn't to the "right thing," is that a sign of humility and meekness, or is it just a sign that he just refuses to listen to God.

I tend to think that the average person is better than most of use allow him/her to be and that God has even more mercy than we allow Him to have.

[Stargazer]

There is always the possibility they actually were framed. Im not a conspiracy theorist but all we have seen is pictures of the brothers with backpacks. Maybe we should be asking, what does the administration have to gain from this?

Are you out of your mind? Nevermind, rhetorical question.

They have been admitting they were doing all these things to everyone they have met. The guy they carjacked? They proudly admitted to it. They also told their relatives whom they contacted that they did it.

If you're one of those people who think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, well, then I feel sorry for you.

You're not following this very well if you think they could have been framed. From Wikipedia:

Dzhokhar was charged on April 22, while still confined to a hospital bed, with using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction resulting in death and with malicious destruction of property resulting in death. He could face the death penalty if convicted. Dzhohkar later admitted during questioning that they intended to detonate explosives in Times Square in New York City next, and that they were jihadists who perpetrated the bombings on their own to defend Islam from attack. ABC reported on April 23, 2013, that authorities believed Tamerlan may have been responsible for an unsolved triple homicide in Waltham, Massachusetts around the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

Busy little bees, indeed.

[Stargazer]

IIRC She returned to Chechnya years ago.

Allah Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest".

Years? How many? Interestingly, she turns out to have been added to a govt terrorism database 18 months before the bombings. Of course, you could add a horse to the database if you wanted, it's not evidence, just a watch list. From the AP report (typed from my morning newspaper):

"...The CIA asked for the Boston terror suspect and his mother to be added to a terrrorist database in the fall of 2011, after the Russian government contacted the agency with concerns that both had become religious militants, according to officials briefed on the investigation...."

Yes, TSS, I know what the Arabic phrase means, you needn't look it up for me. I tend to associate shouts of "God is Great!" with such gleeful activities as hacking off the head of Daniel Pearl, suicide bombings, and so on.

[Saints Alive]

Are you out of your mind? Nevermind, rhetorical question.

They have been admitting they were doing all these things to everyone they have met. The guy they carjacked? They proudly admitted to it. They also told their relatives whom they contacted that they did it.

If you're one of those people who think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, well, then I feel sorry for you.

You're not following this very well if you think they could have been framed. From Wikipedia:

Busy little bees, indeed.

You underestimate the governments ability to manipulate the media... I actually don't believe they were framed, I'm pretty sure they did it. Nevertheless, I think it is 100% within the realm of possibility for the government to pull a conspiracy of this scale.

[Stargazer]

You underestimate the governments ability to manipulate the media... I actually don't believe they were framed, I'm pretty sure they did it. Nevertheless, I think it is 100% within the realm of possibility for the government to pull a conspiracy of this scale.

This is one of those concepts that make my head ache.

According to the theory as I understand it from the various sources I have heard it from, the Bush administration arranged for those aircraft to hit the Twin Towers, but they were not the actual airliners, those were actually flown to a secret airbase somewhere and the occupants put into permanent and secet lock and key. The aircraft of course could not have brought the towers down all by themselves in such a controlled fashion (they say), so the towers (and Building 6 or whatever it is called) were all wired with explosives to bring them down. As to the Pentagon, no airplane hit it, but hidden explosives did the deed. And the aircraft that crashed in Pennsylvania? Simplest of all, a remote controlled plane was crashed into the ground. And the purpose? So the US could go take over Afghanistan and Iraq, to steal their oil and to generate massive profilts for the military industrial complex.

Now, the bombers in Boston? Same thing, except this time it is so we can have an excuse to invade Chechnya. Actually, I'm making that one up, because the Conspiracy Theory Complex hasn't yet gotten itself together to come up with a pseudo-rationalization. But the Obama administration did it, you can be sure of that. And when we think up a good angle, we will be sure to tell everyone. Unfortunately, Chechnya is part of Russia, and I don't think we will be invading it this week.

One of my sons was trying to convince me of the Twin Towers Controlled Demolition Theory by telling me that there was no way the buildings could have come down that perfectly unless they were brought down artificially. I asked him a very simple question, which is, since the towers came down perfectly, and this is a hallmark of a controlled demolition, wasn't that a monumental screwup to do it so perfectly when it was in their best interest to make it look natural, and NOT controlled? He was like, "Uh.... I don't know."

I have heard it all, believe me. I used to attend monthly meetings of a guy who regularly had 100+ in attendance, and do you know that nearly EVERYTHING is a conspiracy?

I actually think there are some very very suspicious events out there that might qualify as the government doing something very dishonest and bad. But I don't think there is a Department of Conspiracy somewhere in the basement of some Federal Building that is conspiring every minute of every day. If everything is a conspiracy -- and I know some people who seem to believe this, then there's no point of even worrying about it. You can't do anything about it. Just give up and live your life.

[volgadon]

But I don't think there is a Department of Conspiracy somewhere in the basement of some Federal Building that is conspiring every minute of every day.

I would have a hard time believing that any government dpt. could be so industrious and productive.

[Saints Alive]

Stargazer:

I only have 2 things to say; bay of Tonkin and Watergate.

[blackstrap]

Then there is that whole Roswell coverup !

[Saints Alive]

Then there is that whole Roswell coverup !

If anything the government like that people think there are aliens at Roswell, its just a testing facility for new and experimental aircraft. Hence all the "UFO" sightings.

[thesometimesaint]

Years? How many? Interestingly, she turns out to have been added to a govt terrorism database 18 months before the bombings. Of course, you could add a horse to the database if you wanted, it's not evidence, just a watch list. From the AP report (typed from my morning newspaper):

"...The CIA asked for the Boston terror suspect and his mother to be added to a terrrorist database in the fall of 2011, after the Russian government contacted the agency with concerns that both had become religious militants, according to officials briefed on the investigation...."

Yes, TSS, I know what the Arabic phrase means, you needn't look it up for me. I tend to associate shouts of "God is Great!" with such gleeful activities as hacking off the head of Daniel Pearl, suicide bombings, and so on.

2011. The Russians have plenty to worry about with the contentious Chechen rebels. But I have read that the rebels are much more interested in giving Russia a problem than in transporting it to the US. There really is nothing to be gained by taking it here. For all their bravado and despicable acts those brothers appear to more like Klebold and Harris than Osama bin Laden. Add in that the Mosque the older brother attended has refused to give a Muslim burial to him.

I agree that many a backside of a horse is on the terrorism watch list, and many a totally innocent person is on there too. Quite regularly we read about some young child being put on that list.

That's a bias we have put aside. God is Great and there isn't a Christian that would disagree. I would be nervous if someone were to standup in an plane about to take off and shout the Muslim version or the Christian version of the phrase.