California Revokes Bsa'S Tax Exempt Status, Implications For The Church...

[Saints Alive]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/california-tax-bill-boy-scouts_n_3055458.html

I havent read a lot about this so I don't know if it has been signed into law or not but, apparently California has passed a bill revoking the BSA's tax-exempt status in the state because of the BSA's stance on homosexuality. Could this also happen to the Church (and other Churches) if they refuse to recognize same-sex marriages? I am thinking that they should be protected under the 1st amendment, but by the same token shouldn't the BSA be protected as well?

[TAO]

It's a committee. It still has to pass through the legislature. It's kind of like the committees in Congress.

[Saints Alive]

So it has only been passed by the committee not the full state senate. Interestingly, if you read the comments, taking away tax exempt status from Churches is exactly what the majority of Huff-post readers want California to do.

[KevinG]

This will likely have minimal impact on the BSA if it passes. I dare say most units don't even remember or use their tax ID number and the Counsels will just pass the taxes along through their dues and stores.

Nothing like punishing the kids for having unpopular beliefs.

[rpn]

I don't know that it would matter a lot anyway. The national BSA doesn't accept a whole lot of money, and could move its headquarters out of CA. Councils are generally funded in part by national BSA and in part by local sponsor funds (friends of scouting). And most bsa sponsoring outfits are churches which would be covered by religious freedom.

OTOH, it is possible that there will come a day when churches are not tax exempt, and income to the church is taxed. Some countries already require a lot more accounting than the US does.

[RobertAC]

It may be unconstitutional, and I believe that it would have an affect on the tax status of churches and other youth groups who provide disparate treatment of members based upon sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

Although I note that this issue has been raised and discussed elsewhere: "The Supreme Court has long held that there is no absolute right to government subsidies that trumps relevant anti-discrimination law, as long as the legislation is applicable to all, regardless of viewpoint. This constitutionality of viewpoint-neutral anti-discrimination law was most recently upheld in Christian Legal Society v. Martinez (2010), which pointedly noted that reliance on Dale as a challenge to anti-discrimination conditions on state aid is misplaced because the issue in Dale was a different type of law that "compelled a group to include unwanted members, with no choice to opt out."

[EllenMaksoud]

Some people in gay rights organizations absolutely tell bald faced lies about the religious and religion in general. I have been in places to see and to hear it. So, I am not sure that we can do in the face of such oposition but pray. I feel torn in two by all this in that I think a spiritually minded, obedient to Heavenly Father gay individual should be fully accepted, but those who purposefully intend to defile should be cast out with prejudice.

[ERayR]

. So, I am not sure that we can do in the face of such oposition but pray.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

[Daniel2]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

This reads like it's supposed to be a joke that implies using guns against "people in gay rights organizations" that "absolutely tell bald faced lies about the religious and religion in general."

Did I read that wrong? Can you explain what it means?

Daniel2

[thesometimesaint]

This reads like it's supposed to be a joke that implies using guns against gays.

Did I read that wrong? Can you explain what it means?

Daniel2

I didn't read it that way. But I could be wrong. More like we should always use our best verbal ammunition is presenting any verbal argument. To any appeal to violence or force is antithetical civil society and the Lord.

[Daniel2]

I didn't read it that way. But I could be wrong. More like we should always use our best verbal ammunition is presenting any verbal argument. To any appeal to violence or force is antithetical civil society and the Lord.

I certainly like your spin better, SS... Though it doesn't strike me that the kind of ammunition that can be "passed" refers to the verbal kind.

Daniel2

[Daniel2]

Some people in gay rights organizations absolutely tell bald faced lies about the religious and religion in general. I have been in places to see and to hear it. So, I am not sure that we can do in the face of such oposition but pray. I feel torn in two by all this in that I think a spiritually minded, obedient to Heavenly Father gay individual should be fully accepted, but those who purposefully intend to defile should be cast out with prejudice.

Which "bald faced lies" have you heard told about "the religious and religions in general"?

(Ironically, I have similarly heard the religious and religions tell quite a few "bald faced lies" about gays, often drawing inappropriate parrallels to pedophia, abuse, inadequate parenting, health concerns, etc).

Daniel2

[Saints Alive]

This reads like it's supposed to be a joke that implies using guns against "people in gay rights organizations" that "absolutely tell bald faced lies about the religious and religion in general."

Did I read that wrong? Can you explain what it means?

Daniel2

Here is the wiki page about the phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_the_Lord_and_Pass_the_Ammunition

Interesting, I didn't know the history behind it. I don't think ERayR advocates violence against anyone who doesn't deserve it but I'll let him speak for himself.

[Saints Alive]

Which "bald faced lies" have you heard told about "the religious and religions in general"?

Daniel2

They are crazy, stupid, ignorant, hate everyone who isn't a white male, don't think for themselves, only watch Fox News, are all republicans, etc, etc.

[ERayR]

This reads like it's supposed to be a joke that implies using guns against "people in gay rights organizations" that "absolutely tell bald faced lies about the religious and religion in general."

Did I read that wrong? Can you explain what it means?

Daniel2

The Wiki piece is accurate.

I do not advocate violence for violence sake. In this case ammunition is Lawyers who believe in protecting the constitution and money for the legal battles ahead. I am well aware that you may not see it that way but I do hope you think the constitution is worth saving and that using the tax code to punish and coerce those who disagree is just plain wrong.

[EllenMaksoud]

Which "bald faced lies" have you heard told about "the religious and religions in general"?

(Ironically, I have similarly heard the religious and religions tell quite a few "bald faced lies" about gays, often drawing inappropriate parrallels to pedophia, abuse, inadequate parenting, health concerns, etc).

Daniel2

Well, this has happened on both sides hasn't it.

What about the things some of the gay community said about Prop 8? The story I got from that community is that the Mormons and Catholics were trying to stop even civil unions (It is my understand ing that civil unions would give them partnership rights) What I am getting from the Mormon church is that they just did not want to be performing same sex unions in their churches, and that they were not trying to stop civil unions. Who is correct? I am no attourney, so I do not know, but I believe what the church tells me.

Now, lets look at the whole of society from an Anthropological point of view (I am not an Anthropologist). As you look out into our culture, people are really fairly close to being the same. Now out comes a man that is all flashy, floppy and steriotypically gay. Is he different? By the way, most people I know who are gay, you could never tell. What about the woman with the so called "Butch Dyke" hair cut? Is she different? What about the guy who insists he is a woman? You can bet that when these folk start out they are pretty rough. Perhaps you saw the news story today about the guy in Idaho who insists he is a woman and got kicked out of the store because She (lets be respectful) was using the women's loo. She was in the stall standing up. Her feet were pointing the wrong way. Now She is insisting she was being descriminated against. YOU adapt to the world. The world does not adapt to you as far as apperance goes.

Personally, I do not care if someone is gay, straight, green, yellow, black or white. I just don't care. As long as they are nice and don't violate my social mores, we're good. They go dragging their stuff into my church, then they better be prepared to function within the limits of the social mores of the Mormon church. Take one look at me, and you'll see that I look like a troll. However I do my utmost to be sweet, kind and gentle to everyone I meet. I do not ask them to adapt to my butch hair cut, my wild clothes my, face with multiple piercings.

[Stargazer]

Take one look at me, and you'll see that I look like a troll. However I do my utmost to be sweet, kind and gentle to everyone I meet. I do not ask them to adapt to my butch hair cut, my wild clothes my, face with multiple piercings.

Wow, I didn't know you wore your hair butch!!

[EllenMaksoud]

Wow, I didn't know you wore your hair butch!!

But what is it about the troll look? In the course of reading your posts, I always picture you in hijab, like this:

Not a troll like this:

Oh, um giggle no I do not look like "that" troll. I don't actually have butch hair cut, or wild clothes. Perhaps I could have worded that better? Yes, I miss Hijab a great deal, and sometimes slip out to see friends who are Hijabis in mine. It is about the modesty and the love of Heavenly Father, not about being Muslim. He saved me from such despair that I would not dare do anything to offend him. Ma Salaama

[Stargazer]

Oh, um giggle no I do not look like "that" troll. I don't actually have butch hair cut, or wild clothes. Perhaps I could have worded that better? Yes, I miss Hijab a great deal, and sometimes slip out to see friends who are Hijabis in mine. It is about the modesty and the love of Heavenly Father, not about being Muslim. He saved me from such despair that I would not dare do anything to offend him. Ma Salaama

Yes, I understand that about the hijab.

[Ron Beron]

If it passes the legislature then it will be up for a big legal fight of which it cannot withstand. More circus from my home state.

[Stargazer]

If it passes the legislature then it will be up for a big legal fight of which it cannot withstand. More circus from my home state.

I was born there. Glad I lived farther north these days. Although Washington state has its touches of madness, too.