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Anakin7 And The Southern Baptist Minister


Anakin7

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Yesterday while working I went to pick up something that was left on a non LDS Church grounds property. I went inside the Church [ a non Denominational Church from it's name on a sign outside] and got the item and a Latino gentleman who was the Pastor came out to greet me. I apologized to him for the item being left there and he stated that it was no problem. I asked him what denomination the Church was and he stated that it was a Southern Baptist Church.

I boldly told him I was LDS and gave him my life Soteriological Journey and Quest and my interfaith experiences. Surprisingly he was kind and stated that he was different in that he is not anyone's judge/jury and that he takes peoples word when asked 2 questions - #1 Is Jesus Christ GOD ? [i said yes FULLY] He asked me how am I Saved ? [ I said By Grace Alone Throught Faith Alone, I added what I understood the greek meanings for Grace and Faith were - Grace [charis] -one of the multiple meanings is unmerited favor and it is accessed/activated by Faith [pistis] which means faithfulness/fidelity/loyalty/obedience/trust. I told him we do not earn our Salvation by our personel rightious works but by Jesus Christs Grace in our lives by way saying thank you and becoming like our Lord of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Saviour/God/King/Master Jesus Christ [ Walking in the Light as He is in the Light].

He said he had no problem with that if I really believed that. He told me that Billy Graham gave a scenario of 3 realities that we will see in Heaven #1 - We will see people there that we thought would not be there, # 2 We will not see people ther that we thought would be there, #3 We will be there.

He accepted my invitation to do lunch sometime and talk. Awesome short experience, made my day yesterday.

The Atonement It IsThe Central Doctrine - Bruce R. McConkie

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

Do we go to the same church? I'm LDS and these answers feel misleading. Here's a question that he may ask at lunch, are you going to live with Jesus if you've never been endowed in the temple? Are you going to live with him as soon as you die, with no temple ordinance attached to your name?
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Do we go to the same church? I'm LDS and these answers feel misleading. Here's a question that he may ask at lunch, are you going to live with Jesus if you've never been endowed in the temple? Are you going to live with him as soon as you die, with no temple ordinance attached to your name?

Jesus ministers to the terrestrial kingdom, according to our doctrine, so this might not be the show-stopper you think it is . . . ;)

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Jesus ministers to the terrestrial kingdom, according to our doctrine, so this might not be the show-stopper you think it is . . . ;)

Did you miss the part where I said "as soon as you die"? The EV's will say this all the time. Also, they think Jesus is God incarnate, we don't. Edited by Tacenda
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Did you miss the part where I said "as soon as you die"? The EV's will say this all the time.

Yes, and they can't explain how the thief on the cross could have been with Jesus "today" in "paradise," while three days later He had "not yet ascended to my Father." We can, because of the spirit world.

Also, they think Jesus is God incarnate, we don't.

How do we not? Of course we do. We don't have a trinitarian view, but we believe that Jesus is/was God in every meaningful sense of the word. And we believe that He was God when He was on the earth. His Father and the Holy Ghost were/are also God, which throws evangelicals into a rage, but *that* has a much better foundation in the Bible than the Trinity.

You get thrown for a loop way too easily on things like this, Tacenda. It's like you *want* for the Church and its doctrine to have all of these irreconcilable problems, yet part of you recognizes that the Church is true and that these things are silly.

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Did you miss the part where I said "as soon as you die"? The EV's will say this all the time. Also, they think Jesus is God incarnate, we don't.

So we don't believe all those scriptures in the Bible and Book of Mormon that say Jesus is God made flesh? I could have sworn we believed the scriptures.

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Also, they think Jesus is God incarnate, we don't.
Speak for yourself, hear the words of the Book of Mormon:
"AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son— The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son— And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father. And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men— Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and satisfied the demands of justice." (Book of Mormon | Mosiah 15:1-9)
Now I don't know about you but this is pretty plain, Jesus is the God of the Old Testament: JEHOVAH, the giver of the the Law, the Lord of Hosts. The Father and the Son are two seperate beings just as I am my father are, but the Father (Elohim) is the literal Father of Christ in the flesh as well as the Father of our spirits. Jesus (our elder brother) is the father of our salvation, He is our redeemer and thus brings us to the fullness of the Father making our salvation and exaltation possible. The Father (Elohim) could not have provided this service being a resurrected and exalted man, yet it is His plan, thus the will of the Father overpowering the will of the Son! It is a beautiful doctrine and a rather simple one. I read these words many times and was confused (a little) intellectually, but one day I read them sitting in the Temple awaiting an endowment session and the spirit of the Lord revealed to me the meaning of these words and it has never bothered me since.

Our doctrine makes more sense than to believe Christ was His own Father in some mystical way.

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Do we go to the same church?

Absolutely

I'm LDS and these answers feel misleading.

Not even, they are simply worded in a way that still matches LDS Theology but that even a Baptist can understand that we aren't so "different" as the enemy's of Mormonism like to portray, for most Christians actually know that Grace and works go hand in hand, that one is not without the other.

Here's a question that he may ask at lunch, are you going to live with Jesus if you've never been endowed in the temple?

That's why LDS do Temple work for the Living AND the Dead so the dead might be judged the same as those in the flesh. God commanded certain saving and exalting ordinances, and so we do them so ALL may have them.

Are you going to live with him as soon as you die, with no temple ordinance attached to your name?

Baptism is a Temple ordinance and a direct commandment in the Bible, so I would say no one is going to get through without being born of the water and the spirit as commanded. Just because other Christians don't follow this commandment as to everyone be it living or dead or the same doesn't somehow change the command. It just means they aren't following the commandment.

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Confirmed Major Changes Coming This Conference!

Tacenda

Shoot it's April Fool's day... darn it.

I thought you said you were "LDS" above....? These are not LDS positions.

It's no wonder you didn't think Anakin7's statements were "accurate" of LDS Theology.

You seem to have a lot of views that are not LDS, or are mis-representative of LDS theology.

Edited by williamsmith
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Some of these comments are not being forthwith on all of our teachings. Anakin7, you might not appear totally honest with saying some of these things to the guy. He knows that we have the teaching that we'll become Gods someday. And he knows we have a works based religion. He might think "what a breath of fresh air" when you say you believe in free Grace and he might think you are a good candidate for him to witness to! You'll both be in that mindset. If you're being honest Anakin7, you'll have to admit that we don't believe we'll be saved by Grace ALONE. Please let me know how your lunch goes, and by all means you can stick it to me if I'm wrong and I apologise beforehand if I am.

ETA: http://www.fairlds.o...-by-grace-alone

"Traditionally, Christian churches have believed that salvation comes through the grace of God but that God expects us to demonstrate our faith by performing good works, including baptism. Though the concept of works was challenged by some of the Reformers, most Protestant churches nevertheless continue to admonish good works and to practice baptism and confirmation. In recent decades, more and more Christian groups have come to rely on grace alone, believing that baptism, while permitted, is unnecessary for salvation, and that good works are a gift of the Spirit that comes to believers after they have accepted Christ.

By contrast, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continues to follow the beliefs of the early Christian community, that salvation comes by a combination of grace, faith, obedience to God’s will, and the ordinances of baptism and confirmation. The Church’s beliefs are summed up in the third and fourth of the Articles of Faith:

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Who knows maybe this guy believes the same thing as the traditional belief as noted in the Fair article. But the non LDS Christians that are EV's tend to believe that it is Grace alone. But this guy apparently isn't EV, so sorry for all this stuff. You'll have to find out at lunch.

You are out of the thread for questioning a poster's honesty because they disagree with you.

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I boldly told him I was LDS and gave him my life Soteriological Journey and Quest and my interfaith experiences. Surprisingly he was kind

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

I am from the South and son of a Baptist Preacher (he is gone now to be with God) so I am not surprised he was "kind". Glad you had a good experience. I started preaching in Baptist Church at 19, most Baptists are great people. But it was not to be for me to be a "Preacher" as I joined the LDS Church at 21, 34 years ago now.
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Some of these comments are not being forthwith on all of our teachings. Anakin7, you might not appear totally honest with saying some of these things to the guy. He knows that we have the teaching that we'll become Gods someday. And he knows we have a works based religion. He might think "what a breath of fresh air" when you say you believe in free Grace and he might think you are a good candidate for him to witness to! You'll both be in that mindset. If you're being honest Anakin7, you'll have to admit that we don't believe we'll be saved by Grace ALONE. Please let me know how your lunch goes, and by all means you can stick it to me if I'm wrong and I apologise beforehand if I am.

ETA: http://www.fairlds.o...-by-grace-alone

"Traditionally, Christian churches have believed that salvation comes through the grace of God but that God expects us to demonstrate our faith by performing good works, including baptism. Though the concept of works was challenged by some of the Reformers, most Protestant churches nevertheless continue to admonish good works and to practice baptism and confirmation. In recent decades, more and more Christian groups have come to rely on grace alone, believing that baptism, while permitted, is unnecessary for salvation, and that good works are a gift of the Spirit that comes to believers after they have accepted Christ.

By contrast, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continues to follow the beliefs of the early Christian community, that salvation comes by a combination of grace, faith, obedience to God’s will, and the ordinances of baptism and confirmation. The Church’s beliefs are summed up in the third and fourth of the Articles of Faith:

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Who knows maybe this guy believes the same thing as the traditional belief as noted in the Fair article. But the non LDS Christians that are EV's tend to believe that it is Grace alone. But this guy apparently isn't EV, so sorry for all this stuff. You'll have to find out at lunch.

Thank You for sharing. True Grace is accessed and made alive in one's Temporal/Spiritual life by True Faith [pistis = faithfulness/fidelity/loyalty/obedience/trust].

I gave him the greek meaning of those words for Grace/Faith and he had no problem with that.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

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Nah, you are on the money, Anakin7. It is a lot of Latter-day Saints (or, should I say in the meaning of President Brigham Young, a lot of Mormons) who do not understand their scriptures and the actual teachings of the Church. In point of fact, anyone who is saved is saved by grace through faith. But, is that a dead faith? I dare say not. James defines a living, justifying faith. Anyone who will be saved will be saved by faith in the name of Jesus Christ and that by grace. The works garner the rewards and placement in heaven but the salvation itself comes of grace through faith. Even there, all will be raised from the dead--the holy, the righteous, the unrighteous, and those who remain filthy still at the end--and even that is a form of salvation, namely, the redemption of the body. That, however, requires no belief on the part of anyone.

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Nah, you are on the money, Anakin7. It is a lot of Latter-day Saints (or, should I say in the meaning of President Brigham Young, a lot of Mormons) who do not understand their scriptures and the actual teachings of the Church. In point of fact, anyone who is saved is saved by grace through faith. But, is that a dead faith? I dare say not. James defines a living, justifying faith. Anyone who will be saved will be saved by faith in the name of Jesus Christ and that by grace. The works garner the rewards and placement in heaven but the salvation itself comes of grace through faith. Even there, all will be raised from the dead--the holy, the righteous, the unrighteous, and those who remain filthy still at the end--and even that is a form of salvation, namely, the redemption of the body. That, however, requires no belief on the part of anyone.

Thank you

In His Debt/Grace

anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

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Some of these comments are not being forthwith on all of our teachings. Anakin7, you might not appear totally honest with saying some of these things to the guy. He knows that we have the teaching that we'll become Gods someday.

This is where some get confused, he or she is right. We are saved by Grace alone, we are exalted by our willingness to take that great gift and do as the giver of Grace commands. In D&C it says we will be "gods" little "g" to make us aware that we can become "joint heirs with Christ", and all that theFather has we can have; pure Bible. We will always be under the rule and care of our loving Father, and I could not imagine few who would want otherwise. God our Father grows in glory through saving us, meaning we will never catch up, but loved and cared for by a righteous parent. I explain in class anytime it comes up, if someone asked if we believe we are "saved by Grace", the answer should be an unqualified "YES"! No Mormon or Christian who thinks the can "save" themselves by their own efforts, will never be exalted. This is why Christ through Paul says "we are saved by Grace and not of works least any man boast. If no "Grace" nothing but lying in our graves, with no resurrection, no exaltation, no going home to our Father. There was no deception because the poster was telling the truth. Read 2 Nephi 9-10 again and again and you will read the greatest sermon on "Grace" ever given. So we are saved by "Grace" which allows us to work toward eternal life (which is God's life's) thus allowing us to become "joint heirs with Christ". I am just grateful the poster knew the right answers to give. Often when others say we are saved by Grace, we are so eager to teach them everything we believe, we leave them with the impression that we believe otherwise. So LDS JEDI- KNIGHT, indeed we are saved by Grace, because without it all would be lost and there never could even exist the ability to do God's will. Praise be to Christ, whom we just celebrated his atonement for doing the "work" that allows all of us a chance to become like him...HOLY! Elder Bruce R McConkie just days before he died left us with these final words which I have committed unto memory. "I am one of his witnesses and in the coming days I shall wet his feet with my tears, but I shall not know better then than I know now. That he is God almighty's Son, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning sacrifice and in no other way! I pray that we may walk in the light as he is in the light". Hope I got it right, one of the greatest things in my life was to see and hear that sermon live, via satellite while in the military. Conference 1985, his life ended less than a week later if memory serves. Again thank you JEDI-Knight; Saved by Grace. Sorry about the length and the sermon, but oh how I loved Christ and his gift and our Father's gift to us. :) :) :)
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[Tacenda] ... [Y]ou'll have to admit that we don't believe we'll be saved by Grace ALONE.

[Alas, Tacenda, like Elvis, has left the building B:), but in response to her assertion ...]

I go to Church, and serve as my ward's Executive Secretary (and have performed the other callings I've had in the Church of Jesus Christ), and take the Sacrament each week, and read my scriptures, and pray, and go to the temple, and so on, not to "save myself, but rather because these things fill my soul and enable me to show my gratitude to God. 2 Nephi 9 says that without the Atonement, our spirits automatically would become subject to the Devil.

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We are only saved at all due to the grace of Christ. Were it not for that grace, none of us could be saved. That is why we merit nothing when it comes to salvation itself. Now, the rewards and placement are another matter but we even get there at all only due to the grace of Christ. Without it, neither faith nor works would accomplish anything toward our salvation. But, we still must do. That together is the teaching of the whole of scripture and so many "Mormons" do not read their scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, enough to know better.

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This is where some get confused, he or she is right. We are saved by Grace alone, we are exalted by our willingness to take that great gift and do as the giver of Grace commands. In D&C it says we will be "gods" little "g" to make us aware that we can become "joint heirs with Christ", and all that theFather has we can have; pure Bible. We will always be under the rule and care of our loving Father, and I could not imagine few who would want otherwise. God our Father grows in glory through saving us, meaning we will never catch up, but loved and cared for by a righteous parent. I explain in class anytime it comes up, if someone asked if we believe we are "saved by Grace", the answer should be an unqualified "YES"! No Mormon or Christian who thinks the can "save" themselves by their own efforts, will never be exalted. This is why Christ through Paul says "we are saved by Grace and not of works least any man boast. If no "Grace" nothing but lying in our graves, with no resurrection, no exaltation, no going home to our Father. There was no deception because the poster was telling the truth. Read 2 Nephi 9-10 again and again and you will read the greatest sermon on "Grace" ever given. So we are saved by "Grace" which allows us to work toward eternal life (which is God's life's) thus allowing us to become "joint heirs with Christ". I am just grateful the poster knew the right answers to give. Often when others say we are saved by Grace, we are so eager to teach them everything we believe, we leave them with the impression that we believe otherwise. So LDS JEDI- KNIGHT, indeed we are saved by Grace, because without it all would be lost and there never could even exist the ability to do God's will. Praise be to Christ, whom we just celebrated his atonement for doing the "work" that allows all of us a chance to become like him...HOLY! Elder Bruce R McConkie just days before he died left us with these final words which I have committed unto memory. "I am one of his witnesses and in the coming days I shall wet his feet with my tears, but I shall not know better then than I know now. That he is God almighty's Son, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning sacrifice and in no other way! I pray that we may walk in the light as he is in the light". Hope I got it right, one of the greatest things in my life was to see and hear that sermon live, via satellite while in the military. Conference 1985, his life ended less than a week later if memory serves. Again thank you JEDI-Knight; Saved by Grace. Sorry about the length and the sermon, but oh how I loved Christ and his gift and our Father's gift to us. :) :) :)

Thank you for sharing that !.

in His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

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I am from the South and son of a Baptist Preacher (he is gone now to be with God) so I am not surprised he was "kind". Glad you had a good experience. I started preaching in Baptist Church at 19, most Baptists are great people. But it was not to be for me to be a "Preacher" as I joined the LDS Church at 21, 34 years ago now.

Awesome !

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

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Nah, you are on the money, Anakin7. It is a lot of Latter-day Saints (or, should I say in the meaning of President Brigham Young, a lot of Mormons) who do not understand their scriptures and the actual teachings of the Church. In point of fact, anyone who is saved is saved by grace through faith. But, is that a dead faith? I dare say not. James defines a living, justifying faith. Anyone who will be saved will be saved by faith in the name of Jesus Christ and that by grace. The works garner the rewards and placement in heaven but the salvation itself comes of grace through faith. Even there, all will be raised from the dead--the holy, the righteous, the unrighteous, and those who remain filthy still at the end--and even that is a form of salvation, namely, the redemption of the body. That, however, requires no belief on the part of anyone.

Thank you for sharing that.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

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Yesterday while working I went to pick up something that was left on a non LDS Church grounds property. I went inside the Church [ a non Denominational Church from it's name on a sign outside] and got the item and a Latino gentleman who was the Pastor came out to greet me. I apologized to him for the item being left there and he stated that it was no problem. I asked him what denomination the Church was and he stated that it was a Southern Baptist Church.

I boldly told him I was LDS and gave him my life Soteriological Journey and Quest and my interfaith experiences. Surprisingly he was kind and stated that he was different in that he is not anyone's judge/jury and that he takes peoples word when asked 2 questions - #1 Is Jesus Christ GOD ? [i said yes FULLY] He asked me how am I Saved ? [ I said By Grace Alone Throught Faith Alone, I added what I understood the greek meanings for Grace and Faith were - Grace [charis] -one of the multiple meanings is unmerited favor and it is accessed/activated by Faith [pistis] which means faithfulness/fidelity/loyalty/obedience/trust. I told him we do not earn our Salvation by our personel rightious works but by Jesus Christs Grace in our lives by way saying thank you and becoming like our Lord of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Saviour/God/King/Master Jesus Christ [ Walking in the Light as He is in the Light].

He said he had no problem with that if I really believed that. He told me that Billy Graham gave a scenario of 3 realities that we will see in Heaven #1 - We will see people there that we thought would not be there, # 2 We will not see people there that we thought would be there, #3 We will be there.

He accepted my invitation to do lunch sometime and talk. Awesome short experience, made my day yesterday.

The Atonement It IsThe Central Doctrine - Bruce R. McConkie

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

I really struggle with the idea of Jesus Christ being God. It feels like it is another cultural compensation for our being unable to entirely understand those who inhabit the heavenlies. Yet, in John 1:1, it is plainly laid out full stop.

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I really struggle with the idea of Jesus Christ being God. It feels like it is another cultural compensation for our being unable to entirely understand those who inhabit the heavenlies. Yet, in John 1:1, it is plainly laid out full stop.

And, so is the Title Page of the Book of Mormon and a number of other passages therein, as well as the Doctrine and Covenants (such as in Section 19, etc.). No one who reads the scriptures and works to understand them ever could say that "Mormonism" does not teach or that "Mormons" do not really believe that Jesus is God incarnate. The teaching is splattered all over the Standard Works and doctrines and teachings of the Church are to be founded upon the Standard Works and the teachings of the living Prophets. "Mormons" who do not believe that Christ is God incarnate simply have not read their scriptures or do not understand what they have read, and certainly have not been paying close attention to talks on the subject during General Conference.

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