I Also Know This Church Is True But

[Christian Mormon]

I wish there was a system in place where one can choose the true Church or reject it.

it is so sad that there are millions of other false Churches.

it is sad to see people join the fly by night start up down the street instead of one with living Apostles and Prophets.

well said by Alma

O that I were an angel, and could have the wish of mine heart, that I might go forth and speak with the trump of God, with a voice to shake the earth, and cry repentance unto every people!

[pmccombs1]

it is so sad that there are millions of other false Churches.

I think the millions of others are truer than you give them credit for.

[changed]

It's been my experience that Heavenly Father enjoys "surprise" endings, twists, mysteries and secrets to keep things interesting. I don't know if I am alone in this, but there have been several times where a new bit of information has rocked my world, and changed how I see everything - all of those moments were fun surprises, like getting a birthday gift, makes you rediscover everything, and keeps it all fresh and new. ... those fun moments would not have been possible if I was not previously wrong in some areas, or if I had not made some assumption about how the pieces fit together.

We're all wrong in some areas, we all get the fun of having secrets that not everyone knows, we all get to look forward to more surprises around the corner... and I can't wait to be surprised by who all of the lost tribes are, and how we all fit together.

[ALarson]

I always have thought that saying "I know this church is true" was kind of an odd statement. Of course, it contains truths. But so do other churches.

A better way to state things would be to be more specific.

"I know the teachings of Christ are true." "I know President Monson is a true Prophet of God". Etc.

[bluebell]

Or maybe something like "I know that this church teaches the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and has the authority to speak and act in Christ's name."

[Damien the Leper]

What constitutes a false church? How do you know? And please refrain from the "God told JS" nonsense. I mean, Joseph joined the Methodists in deliberate disobedience to what he says God told him not to do.

[Senator]

I wish there was a system in place where one can choose the true Church or reject it.

it is so sad that there are millions of other false Churches.

it is sad to see people join the fly by night start up down the street instead of one with living Apostles and Prophets.

well said by Alma

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Could you rephrase?

[bluebell]

What constitutes a false church? How do you know? And please refrain from the "God told JS" nonsense. I mean, Joseph joined the Methodists in deliberate disobedience to what he says God told him not to do.

Maybe i'm misunderstanding, but as i understand it, JS did not join the Methodists. He joined a Methodist bible study class in 1828, which his inlaws were already members of (and which Emma had been a member of since she was a little girl), after the death of his and Emma's first child and before the LDS church was even organized. I think he was on the rolls for about three days.

[The Nehor]

What constitutes a false church? How do you know? And please refrain from the "God told JS" nonsense. I mean, Joseph joined the Methodists in deliberate disobedience to what he says God told him not to do.

I do not think enrolling in a class was what God meant by not joining other churches.

[Tacenda]

I do not think enrolling in a class was what God meant by not joining other churches.

I guess the critics had it wrong when I read he joined the Methodist church, I never knew it was for bible study classes only.

[ALarson]

I think it was more than just a Bible study class, but then it also wasn't joining the Methodist Church either. The classes were probationary for those wanting to join but didn't mean someone was actually going to join their church.

Here's a link describing them:

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=2&mid=5937

[rodheadlee]

What constitutes a false church? How do you know? And please refrain from the "God told JS" nonsense. I mean, Joseph joined the Methodists in deliberate disobedience to what he says God told him not to do.

A false church would be a church that leads you away from Christ, from God.

[ALarson]

A false church would be a church that leads you away from Christ, from God.

One that encourages Satan worshipping?

[teddyaware]

From Boyd K. Packer's October 1971 General Conference address, "The Only True and Living Church:"

The position that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church upon the face of the earth is fundamental. Perhaps it would be more convenient and palatable and popular if we were to avoid it; nevertheless, we are under a sacred obligation and a sacred trust to hold to it. It is not merely an admission; it is a positive declaration. It is so fundamental that we cannot yield on this point.

Now to those who think us uncharitable, we say that it was not devised by us; it was declared by Him, for he gave commandments to the early brethren, and I quote:

“… to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” (D&C 1:30)

Now this is not to say that the churches, all of them, are without some truth. They have some truth—some of them very much of it. They have a form of godliness. Often the clergy and adherents are not without dedication, and many of them practice remarkably well the virtues of Christianity. They are, nonetheless, incomplete. By his declaration, “… they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” (JS—H 1:19)

[pogi]

What constitutes a false church? How do you know? And please refrain from the "God told JS" nonsense. I mean, Joseph joined the Methodists in deliberate disobedience to what he says God told him not to do.

I used this example in another thread: Lets say you go to China and buy a guitar for 20 bucks. The seller says it's a "true" Gibson, it even has the Gibson inscription on the headstock. Is it a "true" Gibson guitar if the makers were not given authority from Gibson to produce it? Authority has everything to do with what makes a church true or false.

I think you know the answer you are going to get from any believing member to the question "how do you know?"

Edited March 6, 2013 by pogi

[ERayR]

I think the millions of others are truer than you give them credit for.

Is the door closed or open. If it is almost, but not quite true is it true or false? The funny thing, and I think sad thing, is that if it is not quite true then it is false. If it is supposed to be a four legged stool but has only three then it is not a complete four legged stool. Still a good stool but not what it is supposed to be.

[ERayR]

A false church would be a church that leads you away from Christ, from God.

Rod I think that a church that can not produce what it promises is a false church but can still point some one to God.

[ERayR]

One that encourages Satan worshipping?

Hyperbole doesn't help.

[rodheadlee]

One that encourages Satan worshipping?

Not necessarily. I was thinking of those prosperity churches when I said that. The Crystal Cathederal with Robert Shulyer comes to mind. I thought they were a false church long before I was a Mormon. They went TU by the way and sold the church.

[rodheadlee]

Rod I think that a church that can not produce what it promises is a false church but can still point some one to God.

I would agree. I hadn't studied with that many churches before I came to know our Church. An EV church, JW, Baptist and Presbyterian.

I quit studying with the JW because they said my Grand Ma was going to hell for not being JW, I quit studying with the Baptist because they said everyone was going to hell, the Presbyterian church I hardly remember as I was a little kid, the EV church actually prepared me to be open to the LDS Church.

True Church means different things to different people. To me it means Jesus Christ's Church, he started it, he runs it, he lets us work for Him, it's His Priesthood, Ordinances, blessings and teachings. Yes we are His only Church with His authority to do these things but we are not the only church that can lead people to Christ. They just have to make the next step and listen when He calls them to His Church.

It's kind of funny, when I first got my revelation regarding the BoM, D&C and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I envisioned entire congregations finding out the Truth and coming to His church.to join us. How naive.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I wish there was a system in place where one can choose the true Church or reject it.

it is so sad that there are millions of other false Churches.

it is sad to see people join the fly by night start up down the street instead of one with living Apostles and Prophets.

well said by Alma

It is the "wish of my heart" that God's will be done and we a free to choose. It is only through choosing that we learn. Edited March 6, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Damien the Leper]

I used this example in another thread: Lets say you go to China and buy a guitar for 20 bucks. The seller says it's a "true" Gibson, it even has the Gibson inscription on the headstock. Is it a "true" Gibson guitar if the makers were not given authority from Gibson to produce it? Authority has everything to do with what makes a church true or false.

I think you know the answer you are going to get from any believing member to the question "how do you know?"

Interesting analogy.

I cannot be arrogant enough to say that without a single shred of doubt that God does or does not exist. Such a statement either way is ridiculous and should be rejected outright.

To say that the "Spirit testified to me" or that "God told me so" doesn't hold water in the sense of proof. While it may or may not be the best response it is still essentially weak.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

To say that the "Spirit testified to me" or that "God told me so" doesn't hold water in the sense of proof. While it may or may not be the best response it is still essentially weak.

But this case it is evidence for the one to whom God spoke, and no evidence to any other.

[Damien the Leper]

But this case it is evidence for the one to whom God spoke, and no evidence to any other.

Exactly. Which is why JS testimony, for example, cannot be fully trusted because it wasn't meant for me.

[Walden]

Rod I think that a church that can not produce what it promises is a false church but can still point some one to God.

If "a church that cannot produce what it promises is a false church," then how would you argue for the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, or the LDS faith in general, if one has applied "Moroni's Promise", contained in the Book of Mormon, and came away without a testimony of the truthfulness of that book?