The Pope Is Quittin'

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This should get interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-resigns-saying-no-longer-strength-fulfill-ministry-112923467.html

[bluebell]

I read that this morning. It would be interesting to hear from some Catholics on how they feel about his decision and whether or not they think it will affect the church in any negative way.

[Calm]

He must feel there is a real need for strong leadership right now or in the near future. Considering how long it's been since this happened before:

In the formal instrument of renunciation he recited as the causes moving him to the step, "the desire for humility, for a purer life, for a stainless conscience, the deficiencies of his own physical strength, his ignorance, the perverseness of the people, his longing for the tranquility of his former life". Having divested himself of every outward symbol of papal dignity, he retired to his old solitude. Although it is often said that Celestine is the only pope to resign voluntarily, in fact, other popes have similarly abdicated of their own will. These are John XVIII in 1009 and Benedict IX in May 1045 (although he regretted it and was soon back). There was also Gregory XII in 1415 who agreed to quit at the request of the Council of Constance.

http://en.wikipedia....nd_canonization

[Darren10]

The Pope says he's too old to be the head fo the Catholic Church. Perhaps that's the simple reason he's resigning.

[Saints Alive]

I don't know, I could see it as beneficial for us if Prophets didn't stay in office for life. Or even having a younger prophet.

[bluebell]

I don't think there's any reason to doubt the Pope's given reasons for resigning, but i'm wondering if this is big news for the Catholic church and members or just an interesting turn of events.

[Calm]

The Pope says he's too old to be the head fo the Catholic Church. Perhaps that's the simple reason he's resigning.

If it sounded like I was questioning that, I wasn't. I was just examining why he felt a need to go against tradition that has a pope staying in office until death no matter what his health is like, This is an exceptional move and since I have no doubt that the Pope takes his work very seriously and puts it foremost in his life over his personal comfort, I doubt that he is resigning solely for personal benefit.

[Calm]

I don't think there's any reason to doubt the Pope's given reasons for resigning, but i'm wondering if this is big news for the Catholic church and members or just an interesting turn of events.

Since it's been over 600 years since this last time happened (a pope willingly resigned in 1294), I suspect it is big news.

edited my math, should not have tried to do it while talking on the phone.

[Stargazer]

If I were a Catholic, I think I wouid feel it was a positive and rational step for the Pope to take.

Since I'm not a Catholic, it's always interesting to see what the College of Cardinals comes up with. I think that Cardinal Ratzinger was a good choice, last time out. Perhaps they will pick an American this time!

[thesometimesaint]

The next few years are going to be full of challenges for the RCC no matter whom they have as Pope.

[Darren10]

I don't know, I could see it as beneficial for us if Prophets didn't stay in office for life. Or even having a younger prophet.

[Darren10]

This is an exceptional move and since I have no doubt that the Pope takes his work very seriously and puts it foremost in his life over his personal comfort, I doubt that he is resigning solely for personal benefit.

No doubt.

[RobertAC]

Hey, he gave over two-weeks notice.

This notice seems geared towards a smooth transition of power. There will be plenty of time to name a successor, and by resigning, the current pope may have some influence as to who that successor will be.

[Mark Beesley]

I don't know, I could see it as beneficial for us if Prophets didn't stay in office for life. Or even having a younger prophet.

I'll mention that to the Head of the Church the next time I see Him. I'm sure Jesus is open to suggestions. . .

[cdowis]

I noticed that his doctors advised that he avoid traveling overseas. Considering the challenges faced by the RCC, he realizes that would be a real problem as the head of the church.

I wish them all the best during the transition. The world needs all the help and Christian leadership it can get.

[Garden Girl]

I noticed that his doctors advised that he avoid traveling overseas. Considering the challenges faced by the RCC, he realizes that would be a real problem as the head of the church.

I wish them all the best during the transition. The world needs all the help and Christian leadership it can get.

I have felt the same about our leaders, particularly the Church president... I do, however, have faith in the structure of the Church to allow for continued leadership should the president become incapacitated. Wasn't it Ezra Taft Benson that became so ill during his tenure?

We all know that Alzheimers is not a respector of persons, and it doesn't seem to skip those in leadership positions within the Church or government... Think Reagan, and, one of our ward's strongest leaders had early Alzheimers when he suffered a heart attack and passed. The heart attack was actually a blessing because he was fading fast.

And I don't know what Benson's(?) illness entailed, except that it kept him from actively performing his responsibilities as president. In such cases, I think it would be better, particularly in these troubled times, for the Church to have a strong and engaged leader who can get out among the people. Especially visiting those overseas where they can see and meet their leader and prophet. Thus, I think a GA should be able to leave his active position for emeritus status, and a new person called to fill the position.

GG

[cdowis]

How the Papal election takes place -- waiting for the white smoke

It first took hold in Viterbo, a town in central Italy that was the site of several papal elections in the middle ages at times when Rome itself was judged to be too turbulent.

In 1271 the cardinals had spent 33 months failing to make up their minds, largely for political reasons, when the people of Viterbo lost patience. They persuaded the local authorities to lock the cardinals in a fortress, cut their food rations and remove the roof of the fortress to expose them to the elements.

The cardinals soon chose Gregory X, who, three years later, introduced new rules for the election of popes, including one that said the cardinals had to meet in seclusion on a gradually reduced diet until they were living off bread and water. His successor was elected in a day; the next pope in seven.

Until the election of Benedict in 2005, a conclave was something to be approached with as much dread as reverence. The mainly elderly cardinals were lodged in a walled-off space within the Apostolic Palace, divided into small, bare rooms.

Since the introduction of rules approved in 1996 by his predecessor, John Paul II, the cardinal-electors have been given comfortable accommodation in a new guesthouse within the Vatican, a sizeable complex of 108 suites and 23 single rooms, all with private bathrooms. The prelates will travel by bus to and from the Sistine Chapel, where the voting takes place beneath Michelangelo's fresco of the Last Judgment.

The conclave that chose Benedict began on 18 April 2005 and ended the following day after four ballots. But not all cardinals take part in a conclave. Anyone who has been nominated in pectore – anonymously, so as to protect them from reprisals or for some other reason – is excluded. So are the many cardinals who are over 80.

By the time the conclave begins, there is likely to be at least some consensus over the leading contenders. But Catholics believe that, once behind the shut doors of the Sistine Chapel, the cardinals are guided to their decision by God directly in the guise of the Holy Spirit. Anything becomes possible.

Certainly, there have been some remarkable shocks in the 2,000 years of the papacy, few more unexpected than the election of Karol Wojtyla as John Paul II in 1978. Joseph Ratzinger, however, went into conclave a favourite from which he emerged as Benedict XVI.

The cardinal-electors are forbidden to exchange messages of any kind with the outside world for the duration of the conclave. A dominant concern of John Paul's 1996 edict, Universi Dominici Gregis (The Shepherd of the Lord's Whole Flock) was to ensure deliberations remained secret, even after they had reached a decision. Anyone in Vatican City who should happen to meet one of the cardinal-electors during the election is forbidden to engage in conversation of any sort with the cardinal.

Universi Dominici Gregis also stipulates "careful and stringent checks" must be made to ensure no audiovisual equipment has been secretly installed in or around the Sistine Chapel "for recording and transmission to the outside".

Ballot slips are customarily burnt in a stove whose chimney extended through a window of the Sistine Chapel. When there was no result, straw was mixed with the ballots to produce thick, black smoke as a signal to those waiting outside. Sometimes, the difference between black and white smoke has been difficult to discern.

In 1958, when John XXIII was elected, Vatican Radio's reporters got it wrong and told the world a pope had been chosen a day before the decision was reached.

http://www.guardian....igned-what-next

[The Nehor]

That is cool information. It does end my much happier belief that they engage in a wrestling tournament with the bracket set up by lot.

[The Nehor]

Well, i am keeping my phone with me in case they call. Any suggestions for name if I am selected? Nehorus the First?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

This should get interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-resigns-saying-no-longer-strength-fulfill-ministry-112923467.html

Our Apostles and Prophets should be able too due to health issues. I felt so bad for Ezra Taft Benson who suffered so...

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Well, i am keeping my phone with me in case they call. Any suggestions for name if I am selected? Nehorus the First?

I have already turned down the job.

[The Nehor]

I have already turned down the job.

Did you at least put in a good word for me? I would look awesome in that hat.

[Gillebre]

and if you do get it, you can enlighten us with regards to bottled holy water. can you say zombie apocalypse?

[Mark Beesley]

Our Apostles and Prophets should be able too due to health issues. I felt so bad for Ezra Taft Benson who suffered so...

It is entirely unnecessary. Church organization and government does not require the President of the Church or any single apostle to be physically active.

The primary role of the President of the Church is to act as the vessel for all of the Priesthood keys, then to delegate to others Priesthood duties that require action. While we have come to expect more, it is not required.

When we claim to be the true Church, what we are saying is that the Priesthood keys reside only in this Church. If the man charged with safeguarding those keys could simply resign for one reason or another, it seems to me that the claim of divine guidance and legitimate exercise of the Priesthood keys might be diminished.

[Kenngo1969]

It is entirely unnecessary. Church organization and government does not require the President of the Church or any single apostle to be physically active.

The primary role of the President of the Church is to act as the vessel for all of the Priesthood keys, then to delegate to others Priesthood duties that require action. While we have come to expect more, it is not required.

When we claim to be the true Church, what we are saying is that the Priesthood keys reside only in this Church. If the man charged with safeguarding those keys could simply resign for one reason or another, it seems to me that the claim of divine guidance and legitimate exercise of the Priesthood keys might be diminished.

That's an interesting take. I'm inclined to agree. I note with interest the qualifier in your final sentence.