Desnews: 33 Scout Councils Ask Bsa To Delay Decision

[Scott Lloyd]

This is on page 1 of today's Deseret News.

Since it is the Great Salt Lake Council -- predominately consisting of LDS units -- that is leading the effort, it is perhaps an indication of how the Church views the impending BSA vote on the controversial proposal to eliminate its national policy regarding the inclusion of homosexuals.

I hasten to add that I have no inside information on this. All I know is what I read in this news story.

[semlogo]

I wish they'd worry more about predators in the BSA and stop worrying about gays.

[CV75]

This is on page 1 of today's Deseret News.

Since it is the Great Salt Lake Council -- predominately consisting of LDS units -- that is leading the effort, it is perhaps an indication of how the Church views the impending BSA vote on the controversial proposal to eliminate its national policy regarding the inclusion of homosexuals.

I hasten to add that I have no inside information on this. All I know is what I read in this news story.

I also saw this article

http://www.sltrib.co...ts-lds.html.csp

“The faith allows chaste gays to hold "callings," or positions in its organizations, when chosen by local Mormon leaders, and its written guidelines do not exclude Scouting.” This seems to indicate that unless it becomes a moral worthiness problem, one’s sexual orientation is irrelevant to his calling (in this case, working with the youth).

What amazes me is that, when it comes to adults working with youth and youth interacting with each other in an adult-mentored program, expression and acceptance of sexual orientation is so important to the adults (both in behalf of themselves and the youth) that it has come to this point. I mean, there is no sexual orientation merit badge.

[BCSpace]

The National Executive Board, he said, consists of the national president, regional presidents and between 60 and 70 regularly elected board members. Although Smith declined to provide the names of all of the current board members (“We do not share specific information regarding members of the National Executive Board,” he said), he did confirm that President Thomas S. Monson of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “is a long-standing and valued member of the National Executive Board.”

And on July 17, 2012, at the conclusion of a two-year review, an 11 person committee convened by the BSA reached a "unanimous consensus" recommending retaining the current policy.^[27] But within the BSA National Executive Board, members James Turley, CEO of Ernst & Young, and Randall Stephenson, CEO of AT&T and who is "on track to become president of the Scout’s national board in 2014",^[28] have publicly opposed the policy and stated their intention "to work from within the BSA Board to actively encourage dialogue and sustainable progress" in changing the policy.^[29][30]

On January 28, 2013, the BSA said it is considering whether to remove its ban on gay leaders and members. "The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue," Deron Smith, public relations director, said in the statement.^[31][32][33] USA Today reported the policy change could be adopted at the next National Executive Board meeting, scheduled for February 4-6 2013. ^[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_homosexuality

So the recently convened committee unanimously voted to uphold the policy. The board itself has many members, not just Turley and Stephenson who, if the board decides to retain the policy, should be ousted.

[BCSpace]

I wish they'd worry more about predators in the BSA and stop worrying about gays.

It has been established that up to and possibly beyond 30% of all sexual abuse is homosexual. Hence, due to the much smaller proportion of homosexuals in the population, the risk for predation is much higher with homosexuals than with heterosexuals. The BSA policy is well justified on that basis alone the other good basis being morally straight.

[CV75]

I wish they'd worry more about predators in the BSA and stop worrying about gays.

I agree; but when you think about it, an adult that demands his sexual orientation be acknowledged in a youth program, one has to wonder how close to predatory behavior that might be / become. I’m not arguing the merits of the proposal at hand, but questioning the basis for which it is even coming forward. I wouldn’t want an adult that asserts his sexual orientation (of any persuasion) working with my children in any organization.

Everyone assuming gays are predators is walking a fine line and may be removed from the thread.

[rockpond]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Scott.

Having already announced their consideration of such a move, I think the BSA needs to take the board vote now, as opposed to waiting. Here's my logic:

Based on conversations I've had with fellow members (admittedly anecdotal but seemingly supported by this article), it appears that many people will withhold their support for Friends of Scouting based just on the fact that the BSA is contemplating this change. This includes long-time strong scouting supporters. In fact, our stake president has asked us to put all Friends of Scouting actions on hold until the church has given us an official response (we were about begin the campaign here in our stake).

What I believe will happen is that the BSA board will approve the change in policy and allow chartered organizations to make their own decisions. Then, President Monson will help calm the concerns within the church by explaining that our scouting program will not change in response to the new policy. I believe he'll ask us to continue our support of scouting and continue our influence within the organization. His statements, reinforced by his lifelong support of the institution, will get most members back on board with the BSA program and Friends of Scouting.

Again, these are just my predictions based on nothing more than my opinion. And maybe a little bit of my hope of what will come to pass.

[BCSpace]

I agree; but when you think about it, an adult that demands his sexual orientation be acknowledged in a youth program, one has to wonder how close to predatory behavior that might be / become. I’m not arguing the merits of the proposal at hand, but questioning the basis for which it is even coming forward. I wouldn’t want an adult that asserts his sexual orientation (of any persuasion) working with my children in any organization.

It's simple human nature. At the very least, the homosexual lifestyle is perceived as more legitimate with a change in policy. But there is also going to be strong attraction and people can and do lose control. I would never willing subject my kids to such an environment in either case.

[BCSpace]

Again, these are just my predictions based on nothing more than my opinion.

I think there is a 60 percent chance against such a decision but that shows how much I agree with your prediction (40%). The Church is certainly prepared to move in that direction but....

And maybe a little bit of my hope of what will come to pass.

...I pray it never comes to pass for the sake of the other organizations; those that wouldn't be opposed.

[rockpond]

It's simple human nature. At the very least, the homosexual lifestyle is perceived as more legitimate with a change in policy. But there is also going to be strong attraction and people can and do lose control. I would never willing subject my kids to such an environment in either case.

But would you agree that even if the BSA changes the policy, LDS scouting will remain the same as it has always been?

[rockpond]

And maybe a little bit of my hope of what will come to pass.

...I pray it never comes to pass.

What I meant is that I hope that the Church will continue its involvement with the BSA.

[DavidB]

This is on page 1 of today's Deseret News.

Since it is the Great Salt Lake Council -- predominately consisting of LDS units -- that is leading the effort, it is perhaps an indication of how the Church views the impending BSA vote on the controversial proposal to eliminate its national policy regarding the inclusion of homosexuals.

I hasten to add that I have no inside information on this. All I know is what I read in this news story.

I would not associate an position to the Church just because members of the Church are on the boards etc.

I also do not understand the fuss, local units will be able to make their own decisions...seems a lot fuss over nothing other than upholding the status quo.

[BCSpace]

But would you agree that even if the BSA changes the policy, LDS scouting will remain the same as it has always been?

Not necessarily. We allow homosexuals to hold callings etc. But the doctrine so far is for those struggling with homosexuality not to put themselves into bad situations so there is strong reason to believe it will remain the same.

The big problem I see is one of association, that we encourage our youth to participate with an organization that at best, would now be morally ambivalent. On the ground, what happens when multiple districts get together for some sort of Jamboree and some allow homosexuals and others don't?

What I meant is that I hope that the Church will continue its involvement with the BSA.

Thanks for clarifying. I hope an unchanged on this issue BSA will continue to be the young men's program of the Church. I wish they had a similar program for girls though not of course with the GSA. There are some other alternative groups filling that role though.

[Scott Lloyd]

I would not associate an position to the Church just because members of the Church are on the boards etc.

The Great Salt Lake Council is overwhelmingly made up of LDS-sponsored units. Presumably, the council would be reflecting the desires of its constituency in leading this effort to get the national board to delay the vote on this controversial proposal. That's all I'm saying.

[rockpond]

The big problem I see is one of association, that we encourage our youth to participate with an organization that at best, would now be morally ambivalent. On the ground, what happens when multiple districts get together for some sort of Jamboree and some allow homosexuals and others don't?

Yeah, I get the problem of association. I guess I don't worry about that as much since, living away from the "mormon corridor" our scouts already see a lot of other values displayed at scout camps... it's the norm here for scout camps to be held on Sundays, coffee is served everywhere, and there are both male & female scouts and leaders camping together. (Not in the same tent, of course.) I recognize those as different issues but figure our young men would continue to recognize those things as different from our standards.

[Scott Lloyd]

So the recently convened committee unanimously voted to uphold the policy. The board itself has many members, not just Turley and Stephenson who, if the board decides to retain the policy, should be ousted.

There does seem to be a power struggle going on there.

[CV75]

I believe he'll ask us to continue our support of scouting and continue our influence within the organization.

I think there is still the sticky wicket of how comfortable contributors are with how their contributions will be spent in training leaders about implementing the new policy and in light of the broader agenda evidently held by some of the NEB. For example, “As I have done in leading Ernst & Young to being a most inclusive organization, I intend to continue to work from within the BSA board to actively encourage dialogue and sustainable progress,” Turley said. (Italics mine)

[rockpond]

I think there is still the sticky wicket of how comfortable contributors are with how their contributions will be spent in training leaders about implementing the new policy...

Agreed. That will be tough to overcome for a lot of members -- I guess it kinda hinges on what President Monson can/will say. Even then, I'm sure there will be those who withhold their Friends of Scouting contributions. Generally speaking, the results of this year's FoS campaign will probably send a message to the BSA regarding whatever decision they make.

[semlogo]

It has been established that up to and possibly beyond 30% of all sexual abuse is homosexual. Hence, due to the much smaller proportion of homosexuals in the population, the risk for predation is much higher with homosexuals than with heterosexuals. The BSA policy is well justified on that basis alone the other good basis being morally straight.

It has been asserted by you, certainly.

[Scott Lloyd]

Agreed. That will be tough to overcome for a lot of members -- I guess it kinda hinges on what President Monson can/will say.

Some years ago, Lee Davidson (then of the Deseret News, now of the Salt Lake Tribune) did an expose on the salaries of certain Scouting executives and the smoldering resentment among the rank-and-file patrons over the Friends of Scouting drives.

In the midst of the fallout from that very hot-button story, President Monson could have given a ringing public declaration of support then; I find it, well, interesting that he did not do so.

[rockpond]

Some years ago, Lee Davidson (then of the Deseret News, now of the Salt Lake Tribune) did an expose on the salaries of certain Scouting executives and the smoldering resentment among the rank-and-file patrons over the Friends of Scouting drives.

In the midst of the fallout from that very hot-button story, President Monson could have given a ringing public declaration of support then; I find it, well, interesting that he did not do so.

That is interesting. And, of course, there's always that "middle" possibility -- we continue using the scout program as the activity arm of our YM program but without a strong endorsement from President Monson, FoS contributions take a dramatic hit.

Even without the directive from our stake president, I cannot imagine having gone into priesthood last Sunday, with all this controversy brewing, attempting to begin the FoS drive. As I told my bishop, the ensuing discussion could eat up the entire hour of quorum meetings.

[The Nehor]

It has been established that up to and possibly beyond 30% of all sexual abuse is homosexual. Hence, due to the much smaller proportion of homosexuals in the population, the risk for predation is much higher with homosexuals than with heterosexuals. The BSA policy is well justified on that basis alone the other good basis being morally straight.

Over 80% of all sexual abuse is done by men. Women should obviously run Scouting by this logic.

[Damien the Leper]

I agree; but when you think about it, an adult that demands his sexual orientation be acknowledged in a youth program, one has to wonder how close to predatory behavior that might be / become. I’m not arguing the merits of the proposal at hand, but questioning the basis for which it is even coming forward. I wouldn’t want an adult that asserts his sexual orientation (of any persuasion) working with my children in any organization.

This is disgustingly presumptuous.

Everyone assuming gays are predators is walking a fine line and may be removed from the thread.

Thank you, Mods.

[CV75]

I agree; but when you think about it, an adult that demands his sexual orientation be acknowledged in a youth program, one has to wonder how close to predatory behavior that might be / become. I’m not arguing the merits of the proposal at hand, but questioning the basis for which it is even coming forward. I wouldn’t want an adult that asserts his sexual orientation (of any persuasion) working with my children in any organization.

Everyone assuming gays are predators is walking a fine line and may be removed from the thread.

I agree, which why I stated, "...an adult that demands his sexual orientation [which I did not specify to convey either hetero- or homosexual] be acknowledged in a youth program, one has to wonder how close to predatory behavior that might be / become."

[Damien the Leper]

It has been established that up to and possibly beyond 30% of all sexual abuse is homosexual. Hence, due to the much smaller proportion of homosexuals in the population, the risk for predation is much higher with homosexuals than with heterosexuals. The BSA policy is well justified on that basis alone the other good basis being morally straight.

CFR.

Here is some information from UC Davis to help dispell some stereotypically "Focus on the Family" b.s.