"Heart Of The Matter" Show Is Cancelled

[Tacenda]

Shawn McCraney's Heart of the Matter is pulled from TV20's airwaves. In this last show he said he and his wife and girls visited several churches (non lds) and were shocked at the big show they all were. That they didn't teach the bible vs. by vs. He said he was done with criticizing the LDS church and was going to go after some of these other churches. Well 5 days later his show is cancelled. And it's easy to see why, now he is attacking the very sponsor's or people's faith, that have helped him with his show all these years.

For those of you that are non LDS, what do you think? Are too many of these non LDS churches going this route? Trying to get members any way they can. With bands etc.? I may complain that we don't have visuals (art of the Saviour) etc. in our chapels but can say that I'm glad it isn't a big production like that just because people are bored easily (except I would like something around Easter or Christmas).

[media=]

Edited January 11, 2013 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

I always thought we should make a joyful sound unto the Lord.

[juliann]

The real question is....why was he surprised? Sounds like a necessary move for a station that needs ratings.

[Tacenda]

I have a funny feeling he set this all up and was ready to move on anyway. Oh the excitement! But could be wrong. They replaced it with a show that does the same basic thing, tear down Mormonism.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Tacenda

[EllenMaksoud]

Shawn McCraney's Heart of the Matter is pulled from TV20's airwaves. In this last show he said he and his wife and girls visited several churches (non lds) and were shocked at the big show they all were. That they didn't teach the bible vs. by vs. He said he was done with criticizing the LDS church and was going to go after some of these other churches. Well 5 days later his show is cancelled. And it's easy to see why, now he is attacking the very sponsor's or people's faith, that have helped him with his show all these years.

For those of you that are non LDS, what do you think? Are too many of these non LDS churches going this route? Trying to get members any way they can. With bands etc.? I may complain that we don't have visuals (art of the Saviour) etc. in our chapels but can say that I'm glad it isn't a big production like that just because people are bored easily (except I would like something around Easter or Christmas).

[media=]

Well, I don't have sponsors or a show, so I can say what I feel. In some non LDS churches I attended, it reminded me of a rock concert. And then with the pastor yelling and pounding the pulpit with his shoe, oops no that was Kruschev, and all the drama that happened, when I left, I was happy to go. I wanted to hear about Heavenly Father, pray in reverent and devoted terms and sing thoughtful songs about Heavenly Father's work in our lives.

[Tacenda]

Well, I don't have sponsors or a show, so I can say what I feel. In some non LDS churches I attended, it reminded me of a rock concert. And then with the pastor yelling and pounding the pulpit with his shoe, oops no that was Kruschev, and all the drama that happened, when I left, I was happy to go. I wanted to hear about Heavenly Father, pray in reverent and devoted terms and sing thoughtful songs about Heavenly Father's work in our lives.

I agree, and if Shawn is being sincere than he's right to get huffy about it.

[Damien the Leper]

Shawn and his ilk always have been and always will be a very sad and very bad joke. The guy is a douchebag (forgive my language members and mods). He has all the credibility of a midnight infomercial. He has deliberately misrepresented the LDS church and the Restoration movement. If I were a mystic, I would say that this is karma.

I'll step off my mean spirited soap box now.

[Calm]

His time slot is current being filled with the John Ankerberg Show (sp?) at least 8 PM Tues. Happened to be flipping channels, came across Heart of the Matter listed and thinking it was a prerecorded show, clicked on it to show my husband after telling him the story of how it got canceled. Surprise, surprise...no Shawn, live or prerecorded.

And they...again surprise, surprise...were trashing Mormons, the "most correct" book lame claim....They were applying evangelical understanding of scripture plus taking the quote out of context to their argument.

There is plenty to criticize of our faith without having to make things up but that would actually take some thought to examine and some thought to understand on the part of the audience, much easier to create strawmen to burn down....what a waste of resources.

Edited January 16, 2013 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

I was feeling almost sorry for them it was so bad, couldn't watch. I think the end is near for these kinds of shows and see how in this case in particular, that persecution can definitely help the church grow.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Tacenda

[followerofemmanuel]

I am sorry that there are shows on the air that offend people. When I come across things of that nature, I quickly move on. There will always be Church's that we could form opinions about. Would I be surprised if what he claims is true....nope ³ For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, ⁴ and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:3

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:14 I take this verse very seriously. I want to spend my time on earth seeking the narrow way. I do not want to waste my precious time judging other people's choices. I have my own journey to work out and live out. If we were to get caught up focusing our time on all the disappointments, evil, wrong doings that others inflict on others, we would have wasted precious time that God has given us to serve him and love those around us. People can judge me or others all they want but it probably would not cause positive change or bring forth good fruit.

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. -- John 4:23, 24

Shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth....Enter His gates with thanksgiving, and His courts with praise. Give thanks to Him; bless His name. -- Psalm 100:1, 4

Band or no band I believe is a personal preference. I can't recall any scriptures that say worship in any specfic way other than pointing to our hearts. What some may believe is irreverent others may believe is worshipful- Giving God our best enthusiasm. What some people believe is reverent others may believe lacks thankfulness or heartfelt expression. In my opion, what matters is that we are are worshiping in spirit and in truth. Are we singing empty meaningless words or are we expressing our love, adoration and thankfullness to the King of all Kings and Lord of Lords. Some folks sing their favorite radio songs with more heart than the songs that have been written to help us communicate with our creator through music and creative expression.

Well I hope I did not offend anyone..just thought I'd share my two cents.

Blessings!!!!

Edited January 17, 2013 by followerofemmanuel

[canard78]

Hi Tacenda, I hope this isn't taken as a criticism, it's not intended to. I was interested to know if you used to watch this show before it was cancelled?

I'm from UK so hadn't heard of this Shawn chap so looked for a few clips on youtube.

This one epitomises what's wrong with a lot of the lazy critical content. I'm not saying it's all lazy. There are some stronger, more balanced arguments available. But what I saw of Shawn is a pretty poor:

A few points:

- Shawn says categorically that Brigham Young had people murdered (1:16). He then flounders a little when asked for documentation. He even quips that he takes it on faith that Brigham Young had people murdered (3:52).

- When he starts floundering and Don (the caller) pushes for evidence of BY murders, Shawn quickly changes the subject to Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham evidence. Unfortunately Don isn't very well prepared and struggles a bit, getting caught in a 'Bible has no more evidence than the Book of Mormon.' It's a little embarrassing when he asks Shawn to tell him where places in the Bible are (4:15)!!... no Mormon Scholar that I know of has ever claimed the Bible has as little evidence as the BoM/BoA.

- Shawn says there are coins in the Book of Mormon and then when asks, by Don, to show him where the Book of Mormon says coins (4:40), he again flounders and says "I don't have a Book of Mormon with me."

Shawn is utterly incorrect.

The word coin/coins is never used in the Book of Mormon. If you do a search in the Book of Mormon for either of those words you get this:

Sorry, your search returned no results.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&type=verse&query=coin&testament=bofm

The Book of Mormon in Alma Chapter 5 actually uses the word 'measure' when it sets out the 'reckoning' of the Nephites.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/11.5,8?lang=eng#4

The word 'measure' means: the dimensions, capacity, or amount of something ascertained by measuring. The word 'wages' is used in the 1981 chapter heading and the word 'coin' appears in the triple combination in reference to Alma 5 (the headings and indexes are not doctrine, not received by revelation, not received by common consent). The index calls it a 'Nephite coin,' but that's incorrect because the index should call them 'Nephite measures.' Even in the headings/inded: 'if there are errors they be errors of men.'

If you look into Maya economy (as one example of that region and era - not saying the Nephites are Mayans):

The Maya used several different mediums of exchange. In the trading of food commodities the barter system was typically used for large orders. Cocoa beans, were used for everyday exchange in the pre-classic times however that eventually gave way to the use of standardized stone beads. For more expensive purchases gold, jade and copper were used as a means of exchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_in_Maya_civilization#Currency

The Maya did have a currency system, and used cacao beans, gold, copper bells, jade, and oyster shell beads as forms of money.

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/exhibits/aztec/maya_commercial.html

I am certainly not attacking you and this might not even be a concern to you. I just wanted to take the opportunity to remind myself of two things:

- Some critics are misinformed and repeat ideas without really knowing all of the facts

- Some members are also misinformed and repeat ideas without really knowing all of the facts

When Shawn and critics like him make statements like "Brigham Young had people murdered" or "There are coins in the Book of Mormon" but can't back it up, should we give any heed to the rest of what they say?

Shawn summed it up perfectly when he said at 5:45 "I don't care about your documentation."

Let us never be so narrow minded that we say to people "I don't care about your documentation" - but let us not allow critics to cast aspersions on our beliefs and leaders if they say the same.

[canard78]

Ooooh, for what it's worth... I can see why this gets an audience. Thank you youtube!

His arguments are spurious but the Mormon's that dial in are sometimes ridiculous. It's like Mormon Jerry Springer. I'm missing out!

[Tacenda]

Ooooh, for what it's worth... I can see why this gets an audience. Thank you youtube!

His arguments are spurious but the Mormon's that dial in are sometimes ridiculous. It's like Mormon Jerry Springer. I'm missing out!

Sorry to say I fell for some of his shenanigans at first. Probably because he was so open with church history and he spoke out unlike myself because I buried my feelings and lived as if everything was peachy to outsiders, for the most part. I think the church needs to be prayerfully trying to get answers to repairing the way history has been handled so no more LDS fall into the trap. So many NOM or ex LDS have said it really isn't the history but the cover up that made them disillusioned.

[canard78]

Sorry to say I fell for some of his shenanigans at first. Probably because he was so open with church history and he spoke out unlike myself because I buried my feelings and lived as if everything was peachy to outsiders, for the most part. I think the church needs to be prayerfully trying to get answers to repairing the way history has been handled so no more LDS fall into the trap. So many NOM or ex LDS have said it really isn't the history but the cover up that made them disillusioned.

I know what you mean. And after watching about 5-6 different clips I found myself getting drawn in.

It's a catch-22 for the church. Be open with the difficulties in the foundation and risk alienating people, or hope that people don't get curious and risk the same when they do.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't place my faith in LDS History.

[Damien the Leper]

I don't place my faith in LDS History.

Nor should anyone. History cannot be completely understood or interpreted objectively. We all have our worldviews and we draw on certain aspects of history that speak to our testimonies and enhance our abilities to commune with God.

[Tacenda]

He posted the following on his website Bornagainmormon.com. Pretty interesting, maybe he'll come back to the fold. Would it hurt us to have a member like him? A bible thumper & Jesus lover? I could dig it! And I see the Mormons forgiving this guy ten times faster than any faith I can fathom.

UPATE – Friday January 18^th 2013

And so it goes.

There are some interesting (and often sad and hard to see) results when a person decides to alter the course they are on and pursue a new direction. When we left Mormonism we discovered that almost everyone we thought were our true friends abandoned us. This was acceptable to us because we knew (and came to see more and more) that “greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.” (1^st John 4:4)

In our weekly investigation against Mormonism we were simultaneously hailed as heroes (from many evangelicals) and besmirched as profane, mean, angry and full of hate from the LDS who did not understand what we were doing or why we were doing it, which was exposing Mormonism for what it is . . . a religion based in the ideas and desires of Man. Over those years tens of thousands of Christians would write us and ask, “What are they (the LDS) so afraid of? I mean, can’t they examine the faith to which they belong? As a Christian I WANT to know the truth. I WANT to know if something is unbiblical and why.”

Yeah, right.

Since our final program aired on January first it seems some Christians cannot take the medicine they gleefully endorsed when it was heaped upon the LDS. And once again we are faced with the very same accusations that the LDS used to hurl my direction – except this time it is coming from my own brothers and sisters in the Christian church!

“Why are you so angry Shawn?”

“You have become proud and we can no longer support you.”

“Who do you think you are attacking the church? The Lord loves His church and He’ll take care of it!”

And, “The language you used toward the body is highly inappropriate, Shawn.”

For seven years I used the very same language (“bull-shitake mushrooms,” “freakin,” “hell,” “damn” ) in my exposes of Mormonism and rarely did I get a rebuff! But how did the Christians respond to the placement of these questionable terms? “Ha, ha, ha, ha! Go get em Shawn! You are so funny!”

For seven years I got indignantly perturbed at the LDS twisting holy scripture to their advantage. How did the Christian community respond? “That’s righteous indignation, Shawn. “The Lord is filling you with His Spirit!”

For seven years I relentlessly pursued the obvious problems about Mormon doctrine and praxis, and how did almost most Christians respond? “Thank you for bravely stepping up and speaking biblical truth no matter how hard it is to hear.”

But I take one week and put the focusing on our own house and the unconditional support is fading and fading fast. It would be freaking hilarious . . . if it wasn’t so damn sad.

One of the BIGGEST (but most errant) reactions I am hearing from Christians is that my attacking the church is “not good,” “not biblical,” “too easy to do,” and that “only God has the right since it is His church.” I am also hearing a lot of discussion about the freedom that exists in the Body. I agree. And it was never my intention to try and turn the Body to “doing church” the way I think it should be done. I understand that music and worship is up to a lot of interpretation. I get that teaching styles and delivery are all different and not everyone likes verse by verse expositional preaching. But in the same breath let me add that the Bible is clear on what the Saints need from their pastors, it is clear what the early church did and was about under apostolic directions, and it is clear on what types of things are of God and what types of things are of the world. And even if every single supporter withdraws their financial support because I am touching on a nerve I will continue to speak truth.

And so it goes.

More later . . . for the King.

Shawn McCraney

Alathea Ministries

[Calm]

I wonder if he will figure out that perhaps he needs to look at himself and change the way he does things as much, if not more than him telling others to do so.

[blackstrap]

There is always the one chance in Hades. BTW Cal,thanks for your advice. For now, the sound of crickets is deafening.

[Calm]

Everyone needs a holiday. Especially in the middle of January.

I love snow and much prefer it to brown grass, but am feeling trapped indoors much more than usual at this time of year. The only worst thing than looking at it would be going out in it. My husband took the grandkids up to look at penguins and archer fish, if my sleep schedule wasn't so off that is where I would be now...sigh. Enough pity party, time to go rearrange a room...always cheers me up.

Edited January 21, 2013 by calmoriah

[anddj]

Just an FYI: according to the Heart of the Matter website (hotm.tv), Heart of the Matter has been picked up by a Christian network that will be airing the episodes (reruns) nationally.

[Garden Girl]

I may complain that we don't have visuals (art of the Saviour) etc. in our chapels but can say that I'm glad it isn't a big production like that just because people are bored easily (except I would like something around Easter or Christmas).

Tacenda, you've complained about no pictures of the Savior in our chapels on a previous thread,.. and I thought then and I think now that this is somewhat misleading to those not familiar with our buildings... many non-LDS would view the entire building as our "chapel" and mistakenly believe that our buildings do not have a picture of the Savior... when in fact we have numerous pictures of the Savior lining our hallways as we approach the chapel, and in each classroom. It is true that we don't have any artwork in our chapels proper, but you make it sound like there are no pictures of the Savior at all... Just a thought...

GG

edit to add... I only mention this, Tacenda, because of the nature of this thread in general... All we need is non-LDS thinking we don't have pictures of the Savior... I can just see it now...

Edited March 10, 2013 by Garden Girl

[Tacenda]

Tacenda, you've complained about no pictures of the Savior in our chapels on a previous thread,.. and I thought then and I think now that this is somewhat misleading to those not familiar with our buildings... many non-LDS would view the entire building as our "chapel" and mistakenly believe that our buildings do not have a picture of the Savior... when in fact we have numerous pictures of the Savior lining our hallways as we approach the chapel, and in each classroom. It is true that we don't have any artwork in our chapels proper, but you make it sound like there are no pictures of the Savior at all... Just a thought...

GG

edit to add... I only mention this, Tacenda, because of the nature of this thread in general... All we need is non-LDS thinking we don't have pictures of the Savior... I can just see it now...

Oh. I'm glad you did that. We definitely have them elsewhere. We have them in other parts of building. I probably should have called it the "sanctuary" instead of "chapel" !

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Shawn McCraney's Heart of the Matter is pulled from TV20's airwaves. In this last show he said he and his wife and girls visited several churches (non lds) and were shocked at the big show they all were. That they didn't teach the bible vs. by vs. He said he was done with criticizing the LDS church and was going to go after some of these other churches. Well 5 days later his show is cancelled. And it's easy to see why, now he is attacking the very sponsor's or people's faith, that have helped him with his show all these years.

For those of you that are non LDS, what do you think? Are too many of these non LDS churches going this route? Trying to get members any way they can. With bands etc.? I may complain that we don't have visuals (art of the Saviour) etc. in our chapels but can say that I'm glad it isn't a big production like that just because people are bored easily (except I would like something around Easter or Christmas).

[media=]

I truly do not miss people of his ilk over at CARM.

[Calm]

Just an FYI: according to the Heart of the Matter website (hotm.tv), Heart of the Matter has been picked up by a Christian network that will be airing the episodes (reruns) nationally.

Somehow I will doubt they will include his last show or so where he explains he is going to use the same approach on Evangelical faiths as he did for the Mormons where they have strayed from the Bible.