EllenMaksoud Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 When I wrote the title out, it took me back to early March of 2011. It's one of the first things I said to the Sisters in Kirtland. Come to think of it, if I had a title on my forehead it would be, "Has Questions". That trait has gotten me into a lot of hot water over the years. Why couldn't I just be a good woman, wash those diapers out in the toilet, and let others do the rest? "All is vanity".So, one of my first questions is: when participating in a thread, usually the email notification I get has a link to get me back to the forum. However, the email notification sometimes does not come with a notification, so I have to get back to the forum on my own. Why is that?Anyhow, now days my approach to my being LDS is pretty simple, but I must admit that having been one of those "other" christistians, and then Muslim, my theology is messed up, and now I see it as a trial. So, the other day I was reading an article and it started refering to Jesus Christ as God! So, I guess I need to get hot and read the book of Moses and all the rest of the BOM. I'm just realizing that a lot of doctrine goes on in the D&C. It looks to me that being LDS, I need to work as hard as pulling 15 credits in college. This paragraph could probably be about a half dozen threads.Maybe I should just sit in the church and nod and pay my tithe, letting those who are smarter figure things out. Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Heck no don't just sit back! We learn through questioning and i really do believe, as long as we are doing everything we can to stay close to the Spirit so that He can guide us, that is is through our questions that we learn 'line upon line' as the bible says we should.And also remember the scriptures which teach us that we must not try to run faster than we have strength. You don't need to have everything figured out right now and feeling like you do or should is going to burn you out. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If you like to learn (and some people don't, they are doers of the word more than seekers...but the world needs both kinds) then there is little that will give you more joy than learning more of the gospel and God's word. Sometimes if our lives have been demanding, we get out of the habit of learning, of asking questions and we need to retrain ourselves to be curious about the world and our place in it as we were as children. There are a lot of reasons why Jesus said become as little children, I think love and trust in God are a big part of that but I also believe being eager to learn is a big part of it.BTW, if you struggle at understanding how LDS generally interpret the scriptures as you read them, I would encourage you to use the institute or even seminary manuals to help as you read. Sunday School is more about asking questions about how we can use the scriptures in our lives, there is often assumptions that people understand more about the doctrine of the scriptures than they do, especially among converts. The seminary and institute manauls are more about going through the verses explaining the doctrine rather than just focusing on how to use already known doctrine.You can order some institute manuals online, but some seminary stuff has been restricted in the past because they don't want the kids being overexposed, but they are all available online here:https://si.lds.org/?lang=eng Link to comment
rpn Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Try the Institute Manual for D&C insights. Or http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/category/scripture-roundtable/ Link to comment
Calm Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 There are a number of online resources put out by informed and thoughtful members, I will post some of my favourites.Feast Upon The Word (for NT): http://feastupontheword.org/Site:NTFootnotesThey also have:http://feastupontheword.org/Site:SS_lessonshttp://feastupontheword.org/Home (links to scriptures)FAIR study aids (which is an ongoing, unfinished effort): http://en.fairmormon.org/FAIR_Study_Aids Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Don't feel bad, I've been LDS all my life and just last year I was a little taken back when I went to the "Saviour of the World" production that LDS stakes will put on and in the beginning they mention that Jesus was God, not in those words. I've since tried to find the playwright and haven't found it. I'm doing something wrong I'm sure. But I tried to google it just to see if my ears were hearing right. But I believe others on here have said that He is God, the God of this world. We also say He is our brother too. I'm not helping I know, but just wanted you to feel better knowing a lifelong member hasn't been paying too much attention in my SS classes, I guess. Edited January 11, 2013 by Tacenda Link to comment
Calm Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 See the last section here...I can't copy and paste it..on Christ being "I Am" and what that means for some more detail. Link to comment
Calm Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Tacenda's..your problem may have been spelling it the English way...which I prefer:https://www.lds.org/callings/music/savior-of-the-world Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Tacenda's..your problem may have been spelling it the English way...which I prefer:https://www.lds.org/callings/music/savior-of-the-worldThanks for the link! I can't see the mentioned part. I swear they say it at the very beginning, maybe it was prerecorded and that's why it's not on the script. Link to comment
Calm Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You don't mean this part?: ABINADI: [And] God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God.25https://www.lds.org/callings/music/savior-of-the-world/scripts/act-one-scene-2-segment-2-4?lang=eng Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You don't mean this part?: https://www.lds.org/callings/music/savior-of-the-world/scripts/act-one-scene-2-segment-2-4?lang=engYou nailed it! It might have been the beginning of the second half and was only spoken not performed. Thanks Cal, you're a genius. Link to comment
EllenMaksoud Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Don't feel bad, I've been LDS all my life and just last year I was a little taken back when I went to the "Saviour of the World" production that LDS stakes will put on and in the beginning they mention that Jesus was God, not in those words. I've since tried to find the playwright and haven't found it. I'm doing something wrong I'm sure. But I tried to google it just to see if my ears were hearing right. But I believe others on here have said that He is God, the God of this world. We also say He is our brother too. I'm not helping I know, but just wanted you to feel better knowing a lifelong member hasn't been paying too much attention in my SS classes, I guess.I'll keep my peace about it. Right now I am sticking with Heavenly Father made it all. Jesus Christ is his son and came to be with us in the Mark 1. I have a poor understanding of the Holy Spirit, but he sure talks to me a lot and with enough authority at times, I know I better listen. Becoming LDS was pretty easy for me because everything they told me was supported in the Old Testament.Perhaps the crux of the issue is in moving the beliefe in Joseph Smith as a prophet from he head to my heart. Sheesh and now I'm getting ready for the Temple. I feel so unprepared. Link to comment
Calm Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I'll keep my peace about it. Right now I am sticking with Heavenly Father made it all. Jesus Christ is his son and came to be with us in the Mark 1. I have a poor understanding of the Holy Spirit, but he sure talks to me a lot and with enough authority at times, I know I better listen. Becoming LDS was pretty easy for me because everything they told me was supported in the Old Testament.Perhaps the crux of the issue is in moving the beliefe in Joseph Smith as a prophet from he head to my heart. Sheesh and now I'm getting ready for the Temple. I feel so unprepared.There is a lot of the OT in the temple. I look on Jesus as being God as not being the same person God the Father is, but rather that he acts the same way as God the Father does at times because God the Father has instructed him in doing God's work, thus God the Father has shared with Christ the Father's power to accomplish the Father's work that the Father gave to the Son to complete.LDS often use "God" as a title or office and that can be mixed up with thinking of the person of God the Father with the Son of God or God the Son (because the Father has shared with the Son his Godly Authority).I can imagine it is very difficult to go from the mindset of a Muslim in thinking about Jesus to the mindset of an LDS, possibly even harder than for an atheist because in the first case one has to change or replace one set of ideas with another set (and some are the same and others aren't and we aren't that careful to identify which are which) as opposed to just learning new ones. There are so many assumptions we don't speak about because we just assume everyone has the same foundation and then one moment it is like "boom" and the assumption is right there in our faces needing to be explained because otherwise nothing else makes sense. Edited January 11, 2013 by calmoriah Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I'll keep my peace about it. Right now I am sticking with Heavenly Father made it all. Jesus Christ is his son and came to be with us in the Mark 1. I have a poor understanding of the Holy Spirit, but he sure talks to me a lot and with enough authority at times, I know I better listen. Becoming LDS was pretty easy for me because everything they told me was supported in the Old Testament.Perhaps the crux of the issue is in moving the beliefe in Joseph Smith as a prophet from he head to my heart. Sheesh and now I'm getting ready for the Temple. I feel so unprepared. The first time in the temple? I think you'll enjoy initiatory, temple workers (ladies) are sweet and you get lots of little blessings. Edited January 11, 2013 by Tacenda 1 Link to comment
Garden Girl Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I'll keep my peace about it. Right now I am sticking with Heavenly Father made it all. Jesus Christ is his son and came to be with us in the Mark 1. I have a poor understanding of the Holy Spirit, but he sure talks to me a lot and with enough authority at times, I know I better listen. Becoming LDS was pretty easy for me because everything they told me was supported in the Old Testament.Perhaps the crux of the issue is in moving the beliefe in Joseph Smith as a prophet from he head to my heart. Sheesh and now I'm getting ready for the Temple. I feel so unprepared.Hello EllenM...Just read this post... I note that you state you are sticking with "Heavenly Father made it all." You may want to explore what is termed "Divine Investiture of authority" in understanding Jesus' power and authority as God. When Christ said "I am in the Father, and the Father in me (John 14:10) he was speaking of what we call divine investiture. That is, God empowered the premortal Jesus to represent him in all affairs of the earth through the law of divine investiture. God the Father has not only invested in the Son power to act in his name, but he has also declared that all things must be done through Jesus Christ to be binding on earth and in heaven. (See Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel by Victor L. Ludlow, pg 48-49).Examples of divine investiture can be found in the scriptures, particularly my favorite, Hebrews 1:1-3 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high... "And Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ..." We are familiar with numerous other scriptures including John 1:1-14 that speak to this concept, including Christ saying he only did the things the father sent him to do... If you have an LDS edition of the KJ with a Topical Guide, it has a section on Jesus Christ that really helps...GG 1 Link to comment
EllenMaksoud Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hello EllenM...Just read this post... I note that you state you are sticking with "Heavenly Father made it all." You may want to explore what is termed "Divine Investiture of authority" in understanding Jesus' power and authority as God. When Christ said "I am in the Father, and the Father in me (John 14:10) he was speaking of what we call divine investiture. That is, God empowered the premortal Jesus to represent him in all affairs of the earth through the law of divine investiture. God the Father has not only invested in the Son power to act in his name, but he has also declared that all things must be done through Jesus Christ to be binding on earth and in heaven. (See Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel by Victor L. Ludlow, pg 48-49).Examples of divine investiture can be found in the scriptures, particularly my favorite, Hebrews 1:1-3 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high... "And Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ..." We are familiar with numerous other scriptures including John 1:1-14 that speak to this concept, including Christ saying he only did the things the father sent him to do... If you have an LDS edition of the KJ with a Topical Guide, it has a section on Jesus Christ that really helps...GGThank you, GG.I don't mean to sound stubborn or ungrateful, but I just have this streak of independence that gets me in trouble at times. It seems that putting too fine a point on expository thought seems to me to limit our view of Heavenly Father. The best minds don't seem to have understood who Heavenly Father and the rest of the inhabitants of the heavens are. It seems that who they are goes way beyond theology and Science Fiction. While I think the LDS have a better grasp on it than most others, there seems to be a long way to travel to complete understanding. Link to comment
Recommended Posts