EllenMaksoud Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I'd like the mods to take a close look at this and if it is found unsuitable, please take it down.As I have said before, I was Muslim for almost 7 years. I was as devout as a Muslim as I had been as an evangelical. I am usually a pragmatist, and it clashes in an uncomfortable way with my idealistic bent.While those who think they know more than I do will say that I am wrong, I can say with some degree of certainty that Islam, Christianity, and Judeasim are in many ways, very similar belief systems. In my mind, the critical difference between Islam and Christianity is the disagreement about whether Jesus Christ was crucified. Of course, we Christians know what we believe, but the Muslims believe that instead of his being crucified, he was simply taken up by Allah SWT (God). Every other major belief about Jesus Christ is the same.So, to me, every other action of Heavenly Father has been so powerful in my life that I am not sure that the issue is very important to me.I've been asking myself if Christianity falls apart if the crucifiction did not happen? Sure there are lots of doctrines floating about that depend upon it. Amazingly, my roomate, an Agnostic was able to sort of hold my feet to the fire on the issue. My argument was that were the whole matter taken to a civil court with lawyers and a jury, none of it could be proven. She actually responded to me with a considerable amount of conviction and that surprised me, so perhaps her streak of Agnosticisim is not as deep as she believes. My own view is that evidence of the actions of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are so evident that I am not sure that I need the rest of it, should it be found wanting.Please, in your response to me, I am not tearing at my own faith but just attempting to resolve what it is that is most important in religion.Merry Christmas
altersteve Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I don't really understand how the Atonement could have taken place if the Crucifixion didn't take place. Jesus had to suffer for our sins and He couldn't have suffered if He was "simply taken up by Allah." Do Muslims believe He suffered for our sins too? Edited December 7, 2012 by altersteve
rongo Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Did He necessarily have to be crucified, though? I mean, other than the fact that prophets foretold that He would be (Zenock)? I don't see how the Atonement is nullified if He were beheaded or were executed some other way.
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I'd like the mods to take a close look at this and if it is found unsuitable, please take it down.As I have said before, I was Muslim for almost 7 years. I was as devout as a Muslim as I had been as an evangelical. I am usually a pragmatist, and it clashes in an uncomfortable way with my idealistic bent.While those who think they know more than I do will say that I am wrong, I can say with some degree of certainty that Islam, Christianity, and Judeasim are in many ways, very similar belief systems. In my mind, the critical difference between Islam and Christianity is the disagreement about whether Jesus Christ was crucified. Of course, we Christians know what we believe, but the Muslims believe that instead of his being crucified, he was simply taken up by Allah SWT (God). Every other major belief about Jesus Christ is the same.So, to me, every other action of Heavenly Father has been so powerful in my life that I am not sure that the issue is very important to me.I've been asking myself if Christianity falls apart if the crucifiction did not happen? Sure there are lots of doctrines floating about that depend upon it. Amazingly, my roomate, an Agnostic was able to sort of hold my feet to the fire on the issue. My argument was that were the whole matter taken to a civil court with lawyers and a jury, none of it could be proven. She actually responded to me with a considerable amount of conviction and that surprised me, so perhaps her streak of Agnosticisim is not as deep as she believes. My own view is that evidence of the actions of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are so evident that I am not sure that I need the rest of it, should it be found wanting.Please, in your response to me, I am not tearing at my own faith but just attempting to resolve what it is that is most important in religion.Merry ChristmasDead is dead. The most important idea of Christianity is that Christ was the first to be Resurrected.Welcome to the Glass Menagerie.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I don't really understand how the Atonement could have taken place if the Crucifixion didn't take place. Jesus had to suffer for our sins and He couldn't have suffered if He was "simply taken up by Allah." Do Muslims believe He suffered for our sins too?Ditto...
volgadon Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 The idea of Jesus' death by crucifixion being an illusion was adopted from Docetism (through precious little else was).
The Nehor Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 While those who think they know more than I do will say that I am wrong, I can say with some degree of certainty that Islam, Christianity, and Judeasim are in many ways, very similar belief systems. In my mind, the critical difference between Islam and Christianity is the disagreement about whether Jesus Christ was crucified. Of course, we Christians know what we believe, but the Muslims believe that instead of his being crucified, he was simply taken up by Allah SWT (God). Every other major belief about Jesus Christ is the same.I disagree completely. Other crucial differences include the Resurrection, Jesus being the Son of God, Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of mankind and conquering death, and of course whether the Bible is a mostly accurate account or if a huge part of it is a fabrication.
EllenMaksoud Posted December 8, 2012 Author Posted December 8, 2012 I disagree completely. Other crucial differences include the Resurrection, Jesus being the Son of God, Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of mankind and conquering death, and of course whether the Bible is a mostly accurate account or if a huge part of it is a fabrication.Are you or have you been Muslim? Did you read in my post about what I believe to be the two most important tasks are that Heavenly Father gave us?
EllenMaksoud Posted December 8, 2012 Author Posted December 8, 2012 Ditto...Heavenly Father has done so many powerful things in my life, that if we found out that the crucifiction did not take place, I do not think it would change much for me. I have three dogs running around in my head. Which one wins? I wish I had never been Evangelical or Muslim. I wish there was a blessing for that.
The Nehor Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Are you or have you been Muslim? Did you read in my post about what I believe to be the two most important tasks are that Heavenly Father gave us?No, but I know most Muslims I have interacted with are offended (in my opinion rightly so) by Christians who argue that Islam and Christianity are mostly the same.I do not see a post in this thread where you said anything like that. Did I miss it?
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