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Defending The Lds Faithful


blueadept

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Let's see, I've been civilly divorced from my LDS wife for 25+ months now. With Romney being one step from the Presidency, I'm amazed at a few of my EV friends who have no problem considering him a Mormon but not a Christian and I still end up defending the LDS faithful....blah.

Here's the link he used

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Mormons.html

I don't need any help explaining any of this crap. I'm just annoyed that I still do. It's just the Christian in me.

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Why be annoyed at the Christian in you? :)

I have found myself defending the Catholic church's beliefs concerning Mary before. It doesn't really matter what religion or belief system it is, if someone's saying something that I know isn't right, i'll try to step in and correct it if i can. Like you said, it just seems like the right thing to do.

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I guess I'm just annoyed with my EV friend and his stubbornness. He's called for me to refute the LDS interpretations that's in the link. I'll put something together, but I'm trying to get him to come to this site. We will see.

Edited by blueadept
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Most evangelicals do not consider LDS members to be Christian, and that will never change. The ironic part is most hold this opinion because their leaders tell them this is true, not because of some theology they have learned. But they will still vote for Romney because even though they consider him a cult member at least it is a Christian cult and he is not a Muslim like they have been told Obama is. Trying to convince them that the LDS are Christian using scripture is an exercise in futility, most don't know scripture and will use spoon fed passages for refutation that they are taught to use by their leaders. Of course this technique is used by both sides.

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I don't mind them believing I am not Christian (I know I am) as long as they get the beliefs right. There are some fundamental differences in our conception of God and His relationship with Man that if used to determine who is and who isn't..well, I am not going to argue more than to say I don't think they can prove the distinction solely through the use of the Bible.

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will use spoon fed passages for refutation that they are taught to use by their leaders. Of course this technique is used by both sides.

Tis true. We need to figure out how to reach those who feel the need to debate to teach them the proper way to use scripture and other forms of knowledge in discussion. Not only does it improve the quality, there is a greater chance of everyone learning something and maybe even being civil while it happens.
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Blueadept, this is a lost cause, because your friends will believe what they want to believe. Virtually all Christian faiths are derived from the Roman Catholic Church. Accordingly they basically have similar views shared between one another. Historically, however, Christianity was much more diverse with some practitioners holding a polytheistic view while others were monotheists. Some believed the crucifixion took place, whereas others believe that it was symbolic. Bottom line: If someone says they are Christian, they are Christian regardless of what others might think.

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Blueadept, this is a lost cause, because your friends will believe what they want to believe. Virtually all Christian faiths are derived from the Roman Catholic Church. Accordingly they basically have similar views shared between one another. Historically, however, Christianity was much more diverse with some practitioners holding a polytheistic view while others were monotheists. Some believed the crucifixion took place, whereas others believe that it was symbolic. Bottom line: If someone says they are Christian, they are Christian regardless of what others might think.

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I find myself doing the same thing, BD....and I've been out of the church for over three years.

So much misinformation out there about the LDS Church.

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His argument is that most of his refefences are coming from LDS sources and then twisted to sound cultish. I've dealt with most of them but I'll ask for better clarifications if I need better sources. As a nevermo, I'm amused at how much I still defend my civillly-divorced wife's faith. I agree it's probably a lost cause but I've seen the difference in those around me when they explain a LDS understanding on something. Last night I had a fellow RCIA teacher explain why Catholics do not accept LDS baptisms. His old explanation was that you didn't use the right form (water) and didn't say the right words which is bunk. So I've seen improvement in our investigator class. When it comes to LDS understandings of something, I'm usually given the benefit of the doubt. There's no reason to pass on outright lies about other faiths. It's up to the Spirit to do the converting anyways....we just do the planting.

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Let's see, I've been civilly divorced from my LDS wife for 25+ months now. With Romney being one step from the Presidency, I'm amazed at a few of my EV friends who have no problem considering him a Mormon but not a Christian and I still end up defending the LDS faithful....blah.

Here's the link he used

http://www.biblebeli...on/Mormons.html

I don't need any help explaining any of this crap. I'm just annoyed that I still do. It's just the Christian in me.

I started out my walk as an evangelical, and after over 30 years, I was so frustrated that I left and became Muslim. I did not know about the Mormons at the time. So, it could be argued that I wasted 7 years as a Muslim before returning to Christianity. I can see and feel a huge difference between EV folk and Mormons, and for a while took issue with Mormons even using the name Christians. Finally, the Missionaries and I agreed that Mormonisim is Christianity 1.0 and the rest of them are 8.0 or more. The apostasy after Jesus Christ was and still is very real.

Oddly, the Mormons have been the most adamant that I begin to behave and be nice in regard to them. It's not surprising, because if you have the whole truth, you have to live by it. I'm trying. :)

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The ironic part is most hold this opinion because their leaders tell them this is true, not because of some theology they have learned.

When you really think about it, there are 2 prevailing views about the nature of Heavenly Father. Some believe

that He has always existed as the Eternal God. The other group believe, as Joseph Smith taught, that Heavenly

Father was once a man who became a God. This he taught is the truth.

In the end, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Some in other countries even worship a God made out of stone or wood. But somewhere down the road, a

certain group of people will realize that all this time they were worshipping a false God.

Regards,

Jim

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Oddly, the Mormons have been the most adamant that I begin to behave and be nice in regard to them. It's not surprising, because if you have the whole truth, you have to live by it. I'm trying. :)

Hopefully we are not being too hard on you. Sometimes we (people in general) forget that in order to chage we need to first realize and accept we are wrong and then learn to have desire to change and that sometimes means being open about what we are suspicious may be wrong with us so we can get a reality check and learn the better way. Edited by calmoriah
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When you really think about it, there are 2 prevailing views about the nature of Heavenly Father. Some believe

that He has always existed as the Eternal God. The other group believe, as Joseph Smith taught, that Heavenly

Father was once a man who became a God. This he taught is the truth.

In the end, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Some in other countries even worship a God made out of stone or wood. But somewhere down the road, a

certain group of people will realize that all this time they were worshipping a false God.

Regards,

Jim

It is possible to believe the Father was/is a man (now exalted) and still the Eternal God, same with His Son.

Many LDS, including myself, believe this.

Edited by calmoriah
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When you really think about it, there are 2 prevailing views about the nature of Heavenly Father. Some believe

that He has always existed as the Eternal God. The other group believe, as Joseph Smith taught, that Heavenly

Father was once a man who became a God. This he taught is the truth.

In the end, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Some in other countries even worship a God made out of stone or wood. But somewhere down the road, a

certain group of people will realize that all this time they were worshipping a false God.

Regards,

Jim

And then there are folks, like me, who think you all are worshipping false Gods, but you will never come to that realization.

But as you say, in the end we are all entitled to our opinions.

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Hopefully we are not being too hard on you. Sometimes we (people in general) forget that in order to chage we need to first realize and accept we are wrong and then learn to have desire to change and that sometimes means being open about what we are suspicious may be wrong with us so we can get a reality check and learn the better way.

I have nothing but admiration for the Sister Missionaries that taught me. Later, it was Elders, who I also grew to respect. For me and where I was, it had to start out with Sisters because I was sooooo uncomfortable around men. I've been a member for about 10 months now and still make lots of mistakes. And, under their patient tutilage, some of my attitudes have changed. I was not brought up in LDS culture and there has been so much for me to learn. Thank you everyone for your patience with me.

Having been both EV and later Muslim is a huge obstacle for me because I get confused. If my theology and doctrine sounds messed up, it is probably because it is. :)

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I have nothing but admiration for the Sister Missionaries that taught me. Later, it was Elders, who I also grew to respect. For me and where I was, it had to start out with Sisters because I was sooooo uncomfortable around men. I've been a member for about 10 months now and still make lots of mistakes. And, under their patient tutilage, some of my attitudes have changed. I was not brought up in LDS culture and there has been so much for me to learn. Thank you everyone for your patience with me.

Having been both EV and later Muslim is a huge obstacle for me because I get confused. If my theology and doctrine sounds messed up, it is probably because it is. :)

Just be patient with us as well, sometimes it is hard to keep track of people's personal status.
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And then there are folks, like me, who think you all are worshipping false Gods, but you will never come to that realization.

But as you say, in the end we are all entitled to our opinions.

Wow, that is harsh. I write Feminist Science Fiction and I started one story just about the time I was learning with the Sisters. The story has now been through three iterations as my view about Heavenly Father changed along the way. It was especially hard for me to deal with a Heavenly Father who was "flesh and bone". Now, I think I have settled for now on the idea that Heavenly Father can be anything he wants to be. Spirit or flesh and bone or who knows. After all, he is the devine creator. There are several hard stops in LDS Doctrine and they are patiently teaching me.

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I have nothing but admiration for the Sister Missionaries that taught me. Later, it was Elders, who I also grew to respect. For me and where I was, it had to start out with Sisters because I was sooooo uncomfortable around men. I've been a member for about 10 months now and still make lots of mistakes. And, under their patient tutilage, some of my attitudes have changed. I was not brought up in LDS culture and there has been so much for me to learn. Thank you everyone for your patience with me.

Having been both EV and later Muslim is a huge obstacle for me because I get confused. If my theology and doctrine sounds messed up, it is probably because it is. :)

You're doing fine. I think it's great that you have experiences to compare to mormonism and maybe that solidifies your testimony. Edited by Tacenda
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Wow, that is harsh. I write Feminist Science Fiction and I started one story just about the time I was learning with the Sisters. The story has now been through three iterations as my view about Heavenly Father changed along the way. It was especially hard for me to deal with a Heavenly Father who was "flesh and bone". Now, I think I have settled for now on the idea that Heavenly Father can be anything he wants to be. Spirit or flesh and bone or who knows. After all, he is the devine creator. There are several hard stops in LDS Doctrine and they are patiently teaching me.

Harsh, how so?
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Iss 14:12 How have you fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the morning, you have been cast down to earth, you once laid low the nations.

The statements you make indicate that you have put yourself in the place of the most high, for only Heavenly Father judges others. Do you really want to be found judging others when Heavenly Father might notice you. That is a fearful place to be.

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