sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-a-mormon-should-not-be-president-2012-10Not sure how I feel about this article. Some of it rings true to me but much of it misses the mark (even to someone who has left the Mormon Faith)
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Here is counter argument - why a mormon should be president.http://www.businessinsider.com/why-i-think-a-mormon-should-be-president-2012-10again, I agree with some of it but other parts of it ring hollow to me.
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 A fallacious argument is still a fallacious argument no matter who makes it.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 I hope no one is voting for Romney just because he is LDS. Just as I hope no one is not voting for him just because he is LDS.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 I'm not sure I see much value in these two articles. I don't see the point in publishing them. Would much rather see articles pointing out pros and cons of policy positions instead of dealing with religious ideologies.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Haven't yet read any of the articles linked to herein, but I have to ask, what's the difference between an article entitled "Why a Mormon should not be president" and "Why a black man should not be president"? Even currently-fashionable prejudice is still prejudice, and it's still ugly regardless how fashionable it is.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Haven't yet read any of the articles linked to herein, but I have to ask, what's the difference between an article entitled "Why a Mormon should not be president" and "Why a black man should not be president"? Even currently-fashionable prejudice is still prejudice, and it's still ugly regardless how fashionable it is.In fairness to the publication, there is also an article about why a mormon should be president.I also think the comparison between religion and race falls a little flat. (when it comes to political office) Religion is about a belief system while skin color tells us nothing about what someone believes.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 In fairness to the publication, there is also an article about why a mormon should be president.I also think the comparison between religion and race falls a little flat. (when it comes to political office) Religion is about a belief system while skin color tells us nothing about what someone believes.\Au contraire! I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that the comparison is inapt. My point is that neither race nor religion tell us how someone would govern, and that's the only thing that matters.P.S.: And Mr. Nebeker gets a lot of basic stuff simply flat-out wrong for someone who wants to be taken as any kind of authority on Mormonism. (If your response is, "He's not appealing to his own authority on Mormonism," I would then ask, "Then why include a bio that says his family goes back for several generations in Mormonism?")
Calm Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-a-mormon-should-not-be-president-2012-10Not sure how I feel about this article. Some of it rings true to me but much of it misses the mark (even to someone who has left the Mormon Faith)Poorly written, all over the place, unfocused....
Calm Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Here is counter argument - why a mormon should be president.http://www.businessinsider.com/why-i-think-a-mormon-should-be-president-2012-10again, I agree with some of it but other parts of it ring hollow to me.Much better focused in making his point.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Much better focused in making his point.I agree it was better writing
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 \P.S.: And Mr. Nebeker gets a lot of basic stuff simply flat-out wrong for someone who wants to be taken as any kind of authority on Mormonism. (If your response is, "He's not appealing to his own authority on Mormonism," I would then ask, "Then why include a bio that says his family goes back for several generations in Mormonism?")I think I agreed that he got a lot wrong. You won't get any argument from me that he shouldn't be taken as any kind of authority on Mormonism.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Au contraire! I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that the comparison is inapt. My point is that neither race nor religion tell us how someone would govern, and that's the only thing that matters.If what someone believes doesn't give you an indication of how they would govern then what do you base your voting decision on?
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Religion and belief are not necessarily the same thing.
sjdawg Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Religion and belief are not necessarily the same thing.I'll agree with that.
BCSpace Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 He didn’t come up with a revolutionary and enduring idea on which to base the religion. Mormonism, instead, is founded on the belief that American Indians are descended from JewsPoppycock! Theosis and eternal marriage are superior in this regard to anything any Protestant founder came up with. One could truthfully argue these were present in the original Christian Church, but relative to the mainstream traditional Christians of JS's day, such didn't exist.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 If what someone believes doesn't give you an indication of how they would govern then what do you base your voting decision on?Whether one believes abortion should be legal, for example, is a policy question that may implicate religious views and values. Whether one believes that the Angel Moroni really did appear to Joseph Smith and give him a set of gold plates, by contrast, does not tell us anything about how a candidate would govern. The former is a perfectly valid question to consider in the political arena, the latter is not. However, the author of "Why a Mormon should not be elected president" apparently would disqualify Governor Romney on the basis of how he would answer the latter question. That's the problem.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 If what someone believes doesn't give you an indication of how they would govern then what do you base your voting decision on?Yet here we are, talking about him, and giving him much more credence than he deserves in the process.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I think I agreed that he got a lot wrong. You won't get any argument from me that he shouldn't be taken as any kind of authority on Mormonism.Yet, sadly on one level and frustratingly on another, too many of the uninitiated will do exactly that, which is precisely why he included the information with his piece.
Walden Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 If what someone believes doesn't give you an indication of how they would govern then what do you base your voting decision on?If what someone believes gives clear indication of how they govern, then I would argue that there have been many believing men in the White House who have acted very un-Christlike, or even un-Christian, during their time in office. Do the names Nixon, Clinton, etc. ring a bell (all of whom were professed Christians)?As a non-believer, I consider the following when deciding on who to vote for: do their policies align with my vision for America and it's future, are they knowledgeable about government policy, do they display integrity, or do they just tell everyone what they want to hear, have they governed with the intention of their constituents best interests or are they devout in their partisanship, etc., etc.When it comes to the religious beliefs of politician's, the only concerns I have that would make me reconsider voting for a candidate is if I was of the belief that they could not separate their religious views from their political decisions, and intended to steer public policy to align with their own private, personal, religious views....essentially, I would have a difficult time voting for someone with a religious agenda, and that has more to do with my views on the relation of church and state than any particular religion or religious views.I am an ex-mormon who thinks that mormons have some kooky views and beliefs, but if I felt that Romney was the best man for the job, I would have no problem voting for him.
DavidB Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Lol, I like that romneys flip-flopping is because he is Mormon and not because he will do and say whatever it takes to get elected.
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 As a wise old man told me: Show me what you do and I'll know what you believe.
Darren10 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.businessi...esident-2012-10Not sure how I feel about this article. Some of it rings true to me but much of it misses the mark (even to someone who has left the Mormon Faith)Huh? Some "rings true" to you? I found it completely void of truth. The author is a John Huntsman fan, and I think that's the true crux of the article.Now it’s not the case that all Mormons are categorically disqualified from being president. It’s just that we should only consider someone with a bit more distance from the dogmatic traps of this young religion. Someone more like Huntsman, for example.
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