The Undecided Evangelical

[Verum]

http://www.cnn.com/i....html?hpt=hp_c3

I hope this isn't a representation of most undecideds. Here we have an evangelical who won't vote for Romney because he's a Mormon but is hesitant to vote for Obama because he's not Christian enough. It must be tough to make moral decision via the lens of religious bigotry....

[Walden]

http://www.cnn.com/i....html?hpt=hp_c3

It must be tough to make moral decision via the lens of religious bigotry....

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

[thesometimesaint]

True, but irrelevant. Even if every eligible Mormon voted for Romney it would have no discernible effect on the election, while if every eligible EV voted it would.

[blueadept]

True, but irrelevant. Even if every eligible Mormon voted for Romney it would have no discernible effect on the election, while if every eligible EV voted it would.

Only if those EV's are in the few battleground states....

So is emeliza helping to get out the EV vote in Iowa?.....lol

[DavidB]

I hope this isn't a representation of most undecideds. Here we have an evangelical who won't vote for Romney because he's a Mormon but is hesitant to vote for Obama because he's not Christian enough. It must be tough to make moral decision via the lens of religious bigotry....

So religious principles are now bigotry?

[Mark Beesley]

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

Do you personally know any Mormons who are voting for Romney only because he is a Mormon? I don't. Every Mormon I know who disagrees with Romney politically is voting for: (1) Obama; (2) Jill Stein; or (3) Gary Johnson. I'm not saying there aren't any voting for Romney, but I suspect if I spoke with them, there would be something other than his faith that would compel their vote, and if not, shame on them, and shame on any Evangelical who will refuse to vote for Romney simply because he is Mormon. Something about there being no religious test to qualify (or disqualify as the case may be) one for office comes to mind.

[Walden]

True, but irrelevant. Even if every eligible Mormon voted for Romney it would have no discernible effect on the election, while if every eligible EV voted it would.

It is true, and It is not irrelevant. Your argument essentially states that because the evangelicals have larger numbers, if they were to vote strictly along religious lines, and against Romney, that their religious bigotry is a greater crime against democracy than that of LDS voting for Romney solely because he is LDS, due simply to the overall numbers? So religious favoritism/bigotry/tunnel-vision is less or more egregious due to the numbers involved, or is it an egregious act in itself?

For the record, EVs are still firmly behind Mitt, and in fact, the numbers of EVs supporting Mitt are similar to the numbers of EVs who supported both McCain and Bush in previous elections.....http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/september-web-only/will-evangelicals-vote-for-mormon.html

From the article: "Despite a history of Republican voting, some political pontificators predicted that evangelicals would be apprehensive about an LDS candidate. The picture of evangelicals as religious partisans has itself proven to be little more than caricature and stereotype."

[Walden]

Do you personally know any Mormons who are voting for Romney only because he is a Mormon? I don't. Every Mormon I know who disagrees with Romney politically is voting for: (1) Obama; (2) Jill Stein; or (3) Gary Johnson. I'm not saying there aren't any voting for Romney, but I suspect if I spoke with them, there would be something other than his faith that would compel their vote, and if not, shame on them, and shame on any Evangelical who will refuse to vote for Romney simply because he is Mormon. Something about there being no religious test to qualify (or disqualify as the case may be) one for office comes to mind.

Personally? The only one I know of at this time is my TBM sister, a lifelong Democrat who wants to see a Mormon in the White House more than she wants to see another Democrat in the White House. She like's Obama and agrees with his policies, she just wants to see her faith in the White House for once. My poll could be skewed by the fact that I have few personal, face-to-face conversations with Mormons these days.

I whole-heartedly agree that there should be no religious test for qualifying someone for office, though I am an atheist, and I won't hold my breath that our religiously conservative country would ever vote for an atheist for president, even if he/she was clearly and far-and-away the best candidate. It appears that religious bigotry is alive and well and condoned, as long as it is pointed towards the irreligious.

[Verum]

So religious principles are now bigotry?

"Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot, defined by Merriam-Webster as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. Bigotry may be based on real or perceived characteristics, including age, disability, dissension from popular opinions, economic status, ethnicity, gender identity, language,nationality, political alignment, race, region, religious or spiritual belief, sex, or sexual orientation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_bigotry

So yes, when someone says, "I won't vote for him because he is a Mormon", then yes, it qualifies as bigotry. Now, if he thinks that there's a specific tenant to Mormon beliefs that can harm people, that is different since it focuses on one's potential to do something that could be harmful potentially. But in the article, he said he won't vote for a Mormon because Mormon's believe that "Jesus was once a man like all of us". There is nothing harmful that can come from making someone taking that belief. He is simply prejudice against voting for someone who simply doesn't share his belief and nothing more. That is bigotry.

[Verum]

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

No, I am not stating this as if there are no Mormon's voting for Romney simply because of the fact he is Mormon. I am sure there are plenty.

(And for full disclosure, I am speaking from the perspective of a non-believing/skeptical Mormon who is NOT supporting Romney in this election).

[Judd]

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

I know this isn't specifically what you're addressing, but I hear this often and don't believe it to be all that true. I don't really know of any people who vote republican that would vote Reid if he were up against Herman Cain. Likewise, I don't know any democrats who would vote Romney over Obama.

[Pahoran]

So religious principles are now bigotry?

Whose "religious principles" prohibit them from voting for someone if their religion differs?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

Maybe there are such people; I don't know. But Walden, if you can't see the difference between voting for "someone who believes as I do" and "voting to make sure none of them gets into office" then you may be missing the point.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mark Beesley]

Personally? The only one I know of at this time is my TBM sister, a lifelong Democrat who wants to see a Mormon in the White House more than she wants to see another Democrat in the White House. She like's Obama and agrees with his policies, she just wants to see her faith in the White House for once. My poll could be skewed by the fact that I have few personal, face-to-face conversations with Mormons these days.

I whole-heartedly agree that there should be no religious test for qualifying someone for office, though I am an atheist, and I won't hold my breath that our religiously conservative country would ever vote for an atheist for president, even if he/she was clearly and far-and-away the best candidate. It appears that religious bigotry is alive and well and condoned, as long as it is pointed towards the irreligious.

Your sister should be ashamed of herself, and you can tell her I said so!

[Calm]

Your sister should be ashamed of herself, and you can tell her I said so!

It's turning the presidency of the US into a purely celebrity position, not particularly wise IMO.

[Walden]

Maybe there are such people; I don't know. But Walden, if you can't see the difference between voting for "someone who believes as I do" and "voting to make sure none of them gets into office" then you may be missing the point.

Regards,

Pahoran

I do understand the difference, but then I fall back on the other premise that I offered: that a believer (which describes the majority of Americans) would refuse to vote for an atheist, even if that atheist was a clearly better candidate, simply because they are an atheist, which would certainly be a case of "voting to make sure none of them gets into office" and would thus be a form of religious bigotry, no?

Would you argue that a clearly superior atheist candidate would be voted president if he/she were running against a less superior believer? Do you think that belief or disbelief in god by a particular candidate would sway LDS voters? Is this not a form of religious bigotry?

[sheilauk]

can you have religious bigotry against someone who has no religion?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

You state this as if there are no Mormons voting for Romney simply and solely due to the fact that he is a Mormon....the religious tunnel-vision goes both ways.

Don't think so...I vote for non-Mormons all the time. I know 100's who will not vote for Romney under any circumstances. I debate them daily.

[Walden]

can you have religious bigotry against someone who has no religion?

Maybe we should call it "irreligious bigotry"?

[Storm Rider]

http://www.cnn.com/i....html?hpt=hp_c3

I hope this isn't a representation of most undecideds. Here we have an evangelical who won't vote for Romney because he's a Mormon but is hesitant to vote for Obama because he's not Christian enough. It must be tough to make moral decision via the lens of religious bigotry....

What always surprises me about these type of people is that they are so ignorant of the Church's teachings and they hold to their ignorance as a baby does its mother's breast. They refuse to learn, refuse to hear our actual beliefs because they "know" what we believe. I don't have time for people like this in my life and I am so glad that I don't have to deal with anyone similar. I know it is not a Christ-like position, but this form of competed stupidity is not interesting; it is the antithesis of being a disciple of Christ to me. I find nothing redeeming in such a quality. Life is too short to subject what little time I have to deal with such people. I can better understand Cannon's statement of burning the south and baptizing for the dead when I hear of such individuals.