Brian William'S Rock Center: Mormon In America

[Scott Lloyd]

I'm not suggesting that it is a universal trait among LDS.

It's like how the Kennedy's are American "Royalty". Most people couldn't care less about them (especially these days), but there are still a subset of the population who consider the family something special.

But since I don't live in Utah, I'll take your word for it that there aren't members of the Church who give special consideration to the family members of Apostles and Prophets, as well as other notable or well known members of the Church there.

I'm saying it's utterly foreign to my experience.

I can recall two occasions when I lived in wards where a member was the daughter of a General Authority.

In the most recent instance, there was no discernible indication, either by the member herself or those around her, other than the fact that her father showed up for Sunday meetings once in a while.

The other was when I was in a student ward at BYU, and one of the Wells daughters, a sister of the future Miss America, was in the ward. But she blended right in also.

Add-on:

Forgot to mention that when I was a freshman, L. Tom Perry's son, Lee Tom Perry, was in our ward. He was a resident assistant in the dorms. He was well-respected, but it was because he made his own way. Very talented and intelligent, as I recall (he wrote a poem for one of his classes that was later put to music and included as a hymn in the current hymnbook). But there was no fawning or bowing because of his parentage. The only prominent indication of it that I recall was that he had his father, still a new GA, come speak to us for a ward fireside on one occasion. This was probably because the ward leaders requested it.

[Damien the Leper]

I thought this was a very good response.

[ttribe]

I'm not suggesting that it is a universal trait among LDS.

It's like how the Kennedy's are American "Royalty". Most people couldn't care less about them (especially these days), but there are still a subset of the population who consider the family something special.

But since I don't live in Utah, I'll take your word for it that there aren't members of the Church who give special consideration to the family members of Apostles and Prophets, as well as other notable or well known members of the Church there.

I've seen it down here in AZ. Not a lot, but I've seen it.

IMO, to deny the very existence of such a phenomenon in a culture as expansive and diverse as ours, is to deny the impact of our humanity. It is natural for humans to gravitate to the "famous", etc. It happens; it's not systemic, doctrinal, or encouraged, but it happens.

[Scott Lloyd]

I've seen it down here in AZ. Not a lot, but I've seen it.

IMO, to deny the very existence of such a phenomenon in a culture as expansive and diverse as ours, is to deny the impact of our humanity. It is natural for humans to gravitate to the "famous", etc. It happens; it's not systemic, doctrinal, or encouraged, but it happens.

I don't recall denying the existence of it. What I said was that whatever its presence might be, it is not pervasive enough for me to have noticed it. Not even once. And not intense or widespread enough to justify the coinage of the buzz phrase "Mormon royalty."

If you are saying that Mormons or Utah Mormons are no more apt than any other group or community to have it occur, then its presence among us hardly seems remarkable.

[Calm]

About the only time I've ever seen this type of reaction is with actual celebrities. When in the dorms at BYU, the ladies would flood out to see one of the Osmonds picking up a date. Osmonds were the biggest "royal family" while I was growing up. My grandmother was thrilled to show us a home movie when I was about 6 I think of the Osmonds attending a ward she was visiting, all in matching suits of light blue, IIRC. I thought they were such dweebs. Never really changed that first impression. She was into those kinds of things, perhaps that is where I picked up my aversion to those kinds of things, lol. Thankfully she was the only one in the family who did that sort of stuff.

[ttribe]

I don't recall denying the existence of it. What I said was that whatever its presence might be, it is not pervasive enough for me to have noticed it. Not even once. And not intense or widespread enough to justify the coinage of the buzz phrase "Mormon royalty."

If you are saying that Mormons or Utah Mormons are no more apt than any other group or community to have it occur, then its presence among us hardly seems remarkable.

I'm not interested in arguing the point, Scott. I'm simply making the observation that I've witnessed this phenomenon in our culture. For that matter, I've seen it (recently) in my own ward. I can't control whether some observer considers the phenomenon remarkable, or not.

[Scott Lloyd]

About the only time I've ever seen this type of reaction is with actual celebrities. When in the dorms at BYU, the ladies would flood out to see one of the Osmonds picking up a date. Osmonds were the biggest "royal family" while I was growing up. My grandmother was thrilled to show us a home movie when I was about 6 I think of the Osmonds attending a ward she was visiting, all in matching suits of light blue, IIRC. I thought they were such dweebs. Never really changed that first impression. She was into those kinds of things, perhaps that is where I picked up my aversion to those kinds of things, lol. Thankfully she was the only one in the family who did that sort of stuff.

I was a youth during the Osmondmania period. I had mixed emotions about them then.

But a few years ago, I had the opportunity to meet and converse one-on-one with Donny. A more gracious, congenial man I've never met. I thanked him for having remained true to his values and having been a good example of a Latter-day Saints all these years. He seemed genuinely pleased.

And a couple of years later, I was at the news conference in Salt Lake with the entire set of Osmond siblings, including the two older brothers who are hearing-impaired. I was very much impressed.

About 15 years ago, I did a telephone interview with Merrill and mother Olive, who spoke with me from Branson, Mo. It was enjoyable and enlightening. Here's my published report.

So my personal experiences with the Osmonds have been very positive.

But no, they are not royalty (though Olive did tell me about her personal interactions with the Queen of England and the King of Rock and Roll).

[Scott Lloyd]

I'm not interested in arguing the point, Scott.

Nor am I. Merely clarifying my position.

[Calm]

My husband has taught at least one of the second (third?) generation in his class and had good things to say about the kid who had good things to say about her parents and I admit that I have been impressed with Donny's ability to laugh at himself with various fun videos (latest one CSI-Provo IIRC).

My biggest issue with the family is due to some business dealings some relatives of mine had with them (a broken contract) and I don't remember who it was....it was long ago and perhaps that individual has changed their business practices to something more in line with the gospel so I should be more open about changing my mind. There was also an overall sense of entitlement/arrogance that some of the young men had back in the day or so it appeared when they showed up on campus...understandable, but distasteful to me. It is likely with age those who did let it go to their heads have gained a great deal more humility as most people do when they find out they are vulnerable just like everyone else. I do not mean to claim that anything that happened almost 40 years ago should be assumed to be an accurate reflection of the family today. I am merely explaining why I have some minor negative vibes about the family though....

[Scott Lloyd]

My husband has taught at least one of the second (third?) generation in his class and had good things to say about the kid who had good things to say about her parents and I admit that I have been impressed with Donny's ability to laugh at himself with various fun videos (latest one CSI-Provo IIRC).

My biggest issue with the family is due to some business dealings some relatives of mine had with them (a broken contract) and I don't remember who it was....it was long ago and perhaps that individual has changed their business practices to something more in line with the gospel so I should be more open about changing my mind. There was also an overall sense of entitlement/arrogance that some of the young men had back in the day or so it appeared when they showed up on campus...understandable, but distasteful to me. It is likely with age those who did let it go to their heads have gained a great deal more humility as most people do when they find out they are vulnerable just like everyone else. I do not mean to claim that anything that happened almost 40 years ago should be assumed to be an accurate reflection of the family today. I am merely explaining why I have some minor negative vibes about the family though....

Sometimes, people who are successful in show business are not very good at managing money. They leave their affairs up to accountants or business managers, perhaps trusting them too much and suffering negative consequences as a result.

[GingerRed]

Sometimes, people who are successful in show business are not very good at managing money. They leave their affairs up to accountants or business managers, perhaps trusting them too much and suffering negative consequences as a result.

I have interacted with the Osmond family for many years and I ,too, find them some of the most genuine, grounded, spiritual cool people I have ever met. That said, they have all said in past interviews about issues with people they trusted with their finances and they have all been burned at one time or another. They did wise up later down the road after damage had been done. But I would say that the situation calmoriah speaks of, very possibly have not been the fault of the family members themselves. I am sorry your relatives went through that.

[Bill Hamblin]

The finest Donny Osmond video

(you need to watch until 1:21)

[Calm]

No link....

[cinepro]

No link....

Okay, I'm a little depressed that I knew which

he was talking about without needing the link.

This is one of those talents that doesn't impress the wife.

[cinepro]

As a surprise to no one,

. It just blows my mind every time I watch it.

[Calm]

Okay, I'm a little depressed that I knew which

he was talking about without needing the link.

This is one of those talents that doesn't impress the wife.

I was pretty sure it was that one, but there are one or two others.

[KevinG]

As a surprise to no one,

. It just blows my mind every time I watch it.

I knew there was a reason 1970s popular culture is a blank spot in my memory. I'm going to have to repress that again.

[Tacenda]

I knew there was a reason 1970s popular culture is a blank spot in my memory. I'm going to have to repress that again.

They could bring back "The Carol Burnett Show" anytime! http://www.tv.com/shows/the-carol-burnett-show/

[Libs]

Loved Carol Burnett. She was one funny lady. And, she could sing, too!

[Calm]

I never liked sitcoms, but for some reason I loved her show, maybe because it was obvious that they weren't trying to pretend they were real people in most of the acts (come to think of it the one act that did go on to become a sitcom IIRC I didn't like, Mama's Family or something like that).

[Libs]

Yeah, Mama's family. I didn't watch that one, much, either, but I LOVED the skits that started that show! She was really a rare talent.

[Scott Lloyd]

I never liked sitcoms, but for some reason I loved her show, maybe because it was obvious that they weren't trying to pretend they were real people in most of the acts (come to think of it the one act that did go on to become a sitcom IIRC I didn't like, Mama's Family or something like that).

Actually, the Carol Burnett Show belonged to a now-defunct genre called the variety show, populated by the likes of Jackie Gleason, Dean Martin, Ed Sullivan, Jimmy Dean, Andy Williams, Nat King Cole, the Smothers Brothers, and later on, Sonny & Cher and Donny and Marie.

[Calm]

I didn't mean to suggest that her show was a sitcom, just that I would have predicted based on my dislike for that sort of comedy, I wouldn't like her show either and yet I did. I also happened to like the Red Skelton Show and the Smothers Brothers (especially YoYo Man), but didn't like the rest of the variety shows...just picky taste I guess.

[Scott Lloyd]

I didn't mean to suggest that her show was a sitcom, just that I would have predicted based on my dislike for that sort of comedy, I wouldn't like her show either and yet I did. I also happened to like the Red Skelton Show and the Smothers Brothers (especially YoYo Man), but didn't like the rest of the variety shows...just picky taste I guess.

Such shows were so popular for so long it's amazing to think public tastes have changed so much in barely a generation that they have totally disappeared.

I predict the same fate will befall the so-called "reality" show, which strikes me generally as one of the most contemptible forms on the air.

By contrast, the quiz show seems to be practically immortal as a TV form.

[Stargazer]

Often non-members convert. I have personally seen that happen twice, since I've been in the church. Most recently was a good friend of mine who had been married to a non-member, for years. He finally converted and they have, since, been married in the Temple.

More often they don't. We have several sisters in our ward who are married to more-or-less supportive non-member husbands, and these good men (and they ARE good) haven't a dime's worth of interest in the church. In a few of these cases, the sisters were strong enough in the faith to bring all their children in the church with strong activity, but it never sufficed to bring their husbands, too. This happens more commonly than the other way.

However, there are two sisters in our ward who had non-member boyfriends, and not only did these two sisters resist marriage to them until they had been baptized, they waited the full year after their fiancees's baptisms so they could be married in the Temple. Both marriages are working out very well, and both husbands are turning into church leaders. Most inspiring.

I had a distant cousin (since deceased) who married an active LDS woman, and, while he supported her activities in the church (even helping her in her calling when she was the Relief Society president), he had no interest in the church. Their children are mostly active LDS now, but Dad never joined. I imagine that he's since been proxy baptised and sealed to his family, but I am not sure if that will be ratified by the Spirit in the end. I would hope so, as he was a good husband and father, but ...